Denon X4500H still good?

[rockhound100bopd]

I am putting a TV out in my shop along with some old Infiniti bookshelves. In my house am currently using a Denon x1700H for my Martin Logan motion foundation B2 shelves and center with a RSL 12s sub. I would like to move my 1700 out to the shop and get a bigger avr (watt wise) for my house. There are quite a few used 4500's out there, but am I just wasting money?

Thanks

 

[PENG]

I am putting a TV out in my shop along with some old Infiniti bookshelves. In my house am currently using a Denon x1700H for my Martin Logan motion foundation B2 shelves and center with a RSL 12s sub. I would like to move my 1700 out to the shop and get a bigger avr (watt wise) for my house. There are quite a few used 4500's out there, but am I just wasting money?

Thanks

It may or may not be a waste of money. First thing to do is to find out how much voltage and current you need based on 4 ohms.

The 4500 offers none to very subtle difference in sound quality if the 1700 is powerful enough for you already.

The best website for online audio amp/speakers calculators seem to be Benchmark's but you may find it hard to navigate as their offering is quite comprehensive, covering many scenarios:

Benchmark System Calculator - Benchmark Media Systems

If you don't know how to use the calculators then let us know the following and we can do it:

1) Your seating distance.
2) Highest sound pressure level (SPL) you would like to listen to without hearing distortions.
3) Your speaker's sensitivity, impedance, and recommended amp power, but you told us they are MLM B2 so we can find that info from ML website. They are 5 ohms, recommended 15-100 W.

 

[rockhound100bopd]

I guess I should have said one of the reasons for looking to upgrade my receiver is for if I would ever decide to get bigger bookshelves or towers.

I think what I might end up doing is finding another used x1700 to put in the shop to run my old Infinty Primus shelves. Also the cheaper route!

 

[PENG]

I guess I should have said one of the reasons for looking to upgrade my receiver is for if I would ever decide to get bigger bookshelves or towers.

I think what I might end up doing is finding another used x1700 to put in the shop to run my old Infinty Primus shelves. Also the cheaper route!

Not long ago I sold my 4 months old, brand new condition X1800H for about C$550 that is US$430. If you can get one for that price range ($400-$480), it may be better than getting the X1700H because if and when you upgrade your speakers to something more demanding, you can get a cheap external power amp for say less than $200, because the X1800H has pre outs for the front L/R and the option to disconnect the internal amps for cleaner pre out signals.

 

[rockhound100bopd]

Not long ago I sold my 4 months old, brand new condition X1800H for about C$550 that is US$430. If you can get one for that price range ($400-$480), it may be better than getting the X1700H because if and when you upgrade your speakers to something more demanding, you can get a cheap external power amp for say less than $200, because the X1800H has pre outs for the front L/R and the option to disconnect the internal amps for cleaner pre out signals.

Just found/bought a used x2800h for $425. I think I'll put that in my HT for a little more power and put my older x1700h out in the shop. Now I just need to find a decent used sub to go out there.

 

[PENG]

Just found/bought a used x2800h for $425. I think I'll put that in my HT for a little more power and put my older x1700h out in the shop. Now I just need to find a decent used sub to go out there.

If you haven't bought it yet I would suggest you try to find a X1800H, because for some weird reason, the X2800H does not have front channel pre outs. In fact, even for the X1800H, only the North American version has front channel preouts. This feature of the 1800 seems little known, really is a gem, why Denon did that I have no idea, it could be because it is the newest Denon AVR model so someone at Denon woke up, realizing that's something they should do.

This is an important feature if you eventually need to add a power amp to drive power hungry speakers, because not only the 1800 has pre outs, you can also run them in preamp mode, that means you can drive high power amps that may have lower sensitivity than normal, such as many of the Hypex or Purifi power amps.

 

[ski2xblack]

That's always been a head scratcher to me, the availability of pre-outs that is, and it's not just Denon/Marantz. Why has it been the predominant approach to only offer pre-outs on higher tier AVRs that are powerful enough to generally not need external amps? Sure, there are a few notable exceptions, like the 50 watt Marantz slimline AVR that I own, and the X1800H, so hooray, I guess, but c'mon AVR companies, it's the entry level, amp-compromised AVRs that are begging for pre-outs!

Happy Hannukah and belated Merry Christmas everyone. Apologies for the ranty thread derailment. Carry on.

 

[rockhound100bopd]

If you haven't bought it yet I would suggest you try to find a X1800H, because for some weird reason, the X2800H does not have front channel pre outs. In fact, even for the X1800H, only the North American version has front channel preouts. This feature of the 1800 seems little known, really is a gem, why Denon did that I have no idea, it could be because it is the newest Denon AVR model so someone at Denon woke up, realizing that's something they should do.

This is an important feature if you eventually need to add a power amp to drive power hungry speakers, because not only the 1800 has pre outs, you can also run them in preamp mode, that means you can drive high power amps that may have lower sensitivity than normal, such as many of the Hypex or Purifi power amps.

Well I already paid for it and it is on its way. No big deal, if i decide to get bigger fronts later on i can always sell it.

Any ideas on a decent sub for the shop? I have an old velodyne vrp 10 (I think that's what it is), but it is not awesome to say the least.

 

[PENG]

Well I already paid for it and it is on its way. No big deal, if i decide to get bigger fronts later on i can always sell it.

Any ideas on a decent sub for the shop? I have an old velodyne vrp 10 (I think that's what it is), but it is not awesome to say the least.

That is true, it was easy for me to sell the 1800. I think it is because of affordability.

For decent subs, it depends on how much you want to spend obviously, for $299, the one James reviewed not long ago seems like a winner:

$300 RSL Speedwoofer 10E Subwoofer Review

At the higher price point, there are just too many to choose from so I would just pick one from SVS's. I bought their cheapest model recently for one of my 2 channel bookshelf speaker based stereo system. It is the SB1000 Pro and am happy with it. If you need more volume and extension, then should start with the PB2000 pro and go from there.

Again, there are many to choose, you probably should go through those James reviewed.
James Larson

 

[Danzilla31]

That's always been a head scratcher to me, the availability of pre-outs that is, and it's not just Denon/Marantz. Why has it been the predominant approach to only offer pre-outs on higher tier AVRs that are powerful enough to generally not need external amps? Sure, there are a few notable exceptions, like the 50 watt Marantz slimline AVR that I own, and the X1800H, so hooray, I guess, but c'mon AVR companies, it's the entry level, amp-compromised AVRs that are begging for pre-outs!

Happy Hannukah and belated Merry Christmas everyone. Apologies for the ranty thread derailment. Carry on.

Money

They know that the smarter ones in this hobby would just buy the cheaper entry level avrs and just use them as pre amps.

I agree with you that's it's silly though because the price starts going up when you get into 11 channel or higher amplifier count avrs for Dolby Atmos etc anyway. So cheap receivers with preouts for like 5 channel setups or less for 2 channel rigs or bedroom setups wouldn't hurt their bottom line that much. I too really wish they would offer this feature.

Hope your holidays have been awesome!

 

[kini]

I am putting a TV out in my shop along with some old Infiniti bookshelves. In my house am currently using a Denon x1700H for my Martin Logan motion foundation B2 shelves and center with a RSL 12s sub. I would like to move my 1700 out to the shop and get a bigger avr (watt wise) for my house. There are quite a few used 4500's out there, but am I just wasting money?

Thanks

Just replaced my Onkyo RZ820, rated at 120 watts with a Denon X1700 Costco $299 special. Can't really tell any difference in loudness. So any difference in max volume levels with the 4500 would likely not be noticeable.

 

[rockhound100bopd]

That is true, it was easy for me to sell the 1800. I think it is because of affordability.

For decent subs, it depends on how much you want to spend obviously, for $299, the one James reviewed not long ago seems like a winner:

$300 RSL Speedwoofer 10E Subwoofer Review

At the higher price point, there are just too many to choose from so I would just pick one from SVS's. I bought their cheapest model recently for one of my 2 channel bookshelf speaker based stereo system. It is the SB1000 Pro and am happy with it. If you need more volume and extension, then should start with the PB2000 pro and go from there.

Again, there are many to choose, you probably should go through those James reviewed.
James Larson

In my home I have an rsl 12s. It kicks all kinds of ass. I'd like to have something that size for my shop since the space is so large, but I'm sure the 10e would work fine, as my budget is around the $300 range.