Denon Vs Yamaha AVR

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks, it really helps!
I've shortlisted the below receivers based on few form factors like no. of channels, power rating, and budget. As @mazersteven suggested I would definitely need some good speakers but if I want to start with receivers what would be your choice out of these receivers below (for a beginner), sorry if it's too much to ask here your expert opinion matters.

Denon AVR-X1600H - 798 CAD
Denon AVRS960H 7.2 Channel 8K - 899 CAD
Yamaha RX-A780 - 899 CAD
Marantz NR1711 7.2 Channel 8K - 1099 CAD
Denon AVR-X2600H - 1099 CAD
Yamaha RX-A880 - 1199 CAD
Yamaha RX-A1080 - 1300 CAD
Denon AVR-X3600H - 1400 CAD
I'd get the Denon 3600 in that bunch for both the pre-outs and the Audyssey XT32 features....but am just an enthusiast, not an expert. Generally you start with speakers then get suitable amplification for them and your use, but since you have some speakers you can use in the meantime....
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
Thanks, it really helps!
I've shortlisted the below receivers based on few form factors like no. of channels, power rating, and budget. As @mazersteven suggested I would definitely need some good speakers but if I want to start with receivers what would be your choice out of these receivers below (for a beginner), sorry if it's too much to ask here your expert opinion matters.

Denon AVR-X1600H - 798 CAD
Denon AVRS960H 7.2 Channel 8K - 899 CAD
Yamaha RX-A780 - 899 CAD
Marantz NR1711 7.2 Channel 8K - 1099 CAD
Denon AVR-X2600H - 1099 CAD
Yamaha RX-A880 - 1199 CAD
Yamaha RX-A1080 - 1300 CAD
Denon AVR-X3600H - 1400 CAD
Where in Canada are you located? I'm in Ottawa myself. Like I said I bought used, the latest being a Yamaha RX-A3060, top of the line for that model year for $1200. Look at Kijijii or Canuck Audio Mart.
 
A

Arun Prasad

Enthusiast
Where in Canada are you located? I'm in Ottawa myself. Like I said I bought used, the latest being a Yamaha RX-A3060, top of the line for that model year for $1200. Look at Kijijii or Canuck Audio Mart.
I am in Toronto, I checked the other site you've shared and it looks like they can't ship to Canada. Let me check in Canuck.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
I am in Toronto, I checked the other site you've shared and it looks like they can't ship to Canada. Let me check in Canuck.
There is a kijijji in Toronto. Go bact to it again. Theres an RX-A1070 for $700 for sale. Also sign up for hifishark.com
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I think the REQ and sub implementation particularly is superior in the Denon. What speakers are you using?
We need you to ask such an important question, as you seem to always do!!

So often people just say 4 Ohm speakers, when in fact many 8 Ohm nominal rated speakers may need more juice than many 4 Ohm nominal rated speakers because how how the manufacturers based the impedance rating on, the impedance curve, phase angle curve, sensitivity specs, "power handling" specs, and maximum spl they can produce are also important factors.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I am in Toronto, I checked the other site you've shared and it looks like they can't ship to Canada. Let me check in Canuck.
I downloaded the manual of you speakers, they were part of something like HTIAB. The amplifier section is rated 150 W into 4 Ohm at 10% distortions. That tells me any Yamaha or Denon AVR will have more power output than the original amplifier that came with the system. So the issue won't be the "4 Ohm" impedance, but what those speakers can handle and how well they will sound as they clearly will be the bottleneck. As someone mentioned, and I am sure you already know, that if you are to upgrade to a real AVR like the 1080 and 3600, you will need new speakers. The AVR-X3600H is 11 channel (processing) capable and has better specs and measurements than the 1080, but both are more than good enough for your JVC speakers.
 
K

Knitman

Enthusiast
I have used Yamaha for 35yrs? I presently use the Rx-A3080. I have thought of changing brands to a Denon or Marantz but neither have the specs. I also just watched a very bad review on YT on the latest high end Den on. Andrew Robinson. First time I have heard him be so negative about something. BUT critics are my least favourite and take little notice of them.

So take what I say as just my opinion. Nothing more. I am very pleased with my Yamaha. Sound and visuals are excellent. I listen to stereo music using Pure Direct, which bypasses the processing so the analogue goes thru unmolested. I use two Monitor Audio GS 300 as the fronts, Monitor Audio Silver 8 for the other 5.

I may switch to the new top Yam when they get around to releasing it. They keep putting it back. No idea why.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I have used Yamaha for 35yrs? I presently use the Rx-A3080. I have thought of changing brands to a Denon or Marantz but neither have the specs. I also just watched a very bad review on YT on the latest high end Den on. Andrew Robinson. First time I have heard him be so negative about something. BUT critics are my least favourite and take little notice of them.

So take what I say as just my opinion. Nothing more. I am very pleased with my Yamaha. Sound and visuals are excellent. I listen to stereo music using Pure Direct, which bypasses the processing so the analogue goes thru unmolested. I use two Monitor Audio GS 300 as the fronts, Monitor Audio Silver 8 for the other 5.

I may switch to the new top Yam when they get around to releasing it. They keep putting it back. No idea why.
Curious, what do you mean neither Denon or Marantz have the specs?

Andrew I'd unsubscribed from as he was getting a bit goofy with the subjective stuff...will see what he had to say about the 8500, which has excellent spec in any case.
 
K

Knitman

Enthusiast
I always look first to see if the DAC is higher spec than my Yamaha and I don't think I have found any that are higher spec. I could of course be wrong.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I always look first to see if the DAC is higher spec than my Yamaha and I don't think I have found any that are higher spec. I could of course be wrong.
Not that it matter practically speaking but for the record, the Denon flagship use the AK4490 for all channels. That DAC has basically the same specs (the AK has slightly better THD+N spec, the ESS Sabre has slightly better SNR) as the 3080's 9026Pro but it is a 2 channel DAC so that is inherently better.

So you are definitely not wrong, Denon's not better, except it use the same chip for all channels including the two for the LFE channels whereas the 3080 use the lower grade ESS chip for the surround/height/LFE channels.

The 3080 uses the 9026 pro in the main 7 channels only, and those ESS Sabre chips are known to have an IMD bump, likely not audible but it's there, measurable.

Another fyi, D+M has upgrade the volume control chip since around 2016, Yamaha is still using the large scale integrated chip that does lots of things in additional to volume control. Since the DAC is downstream, until Yamaha upgrade that chip, it really doesn't matter if they use an even higher end DAC because the overall THD+N (SINAD), SNR etc., would be limited by the volume control chip's specs. Hometheaterhifi has a technical article on this if you are interested. Again, all these are mostly academic, some audiophile's may be fixated on such details. Most probably don't pay attention to the details, so when they see a high end DAC being used, they assume all will be good, better, whatever.. In the end, the human ears/brains are most likely the limiting factor, but then many people do use their eyes and brains to hear. I guess their eyes double as hearing aids.:D
 
Teetertotter?

Teetertotter?

Audioholic Intern
Read the specs on all of them and you can decide, based your budget. My ears could not tell the difference as all in the SPEAKERS. Good Luck
 
A

Arun Prasad

Enthusiast
There is a kijijji in Toronto. Go bact to it again. Theres an RX-A1070 for $700 for sale. Also sign up for hifishark.com
I got a final offer from Visions for 1156 CAD (taxes in) but now after seeing this on Amazon, https://www.amazon.ca/DENON-AVR-X3700H- ... VNYVM?th=1 for 1208.45 CAD (plus taxes) I think I should go for this one.
Do you think the prices will dip down further for Black Friday or Boxing Day otherwise I am thinking of using the Visions price match program to beat this price further by 15% (which would be around 1161$~ )?
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
I got a final offer from Visions for 1156 CAD (taxes in) but now after seeing this on Amazon, https://www.amazon.ca/DENON-AVR-X3700H- ... VNYVM?th=1 for 1208.45 CAD (plus taxes) I think I should go for this one.
Do you think the prices will dip down further for Black Friday or Boxing Day otherwise I am thinking of using the Visions price match program to beat this price further by 15% (which would be around 1161$~ )?
I dont know.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
Not that it matter practically speaking but for the record, the Denon flagship use the AK4490 for all channels. That DAC has basically the same specs (the AK has slightly better THD+N spec, the ESS Sabre has slightly better SNR) as the 3080's 9026Pro but it is a 2 channel DAC so that is inherently better.

So you are definitely not wrong, Denon's not better, except it use the same chip for all channels including the two for the LFE channels whereas the 3080 use the lower grade ESS chip for the surround/height/LFE channels.

The 3080 uses the 9026 pro in the main 7 channels only, and those ESS Sabre chips are known to have an IMD bump, likely not audible but it's there, measurable.

Another fyi, D+M has upgrade the volume control chip since around 2016, Yamaha is still using the large scale integrated chip that does lots of things in additional to volume control. Since the DAC is downstream, until Yamaha upgrade that chip, it really doesn't matter if they use an even higher end DAC because the overall THD+N (SINAD), SNR etc., would be limited by the volume control chip's specs. Hometheaterhifi has a technical article on this if you are interested. Again, all these are mostly academic, some audiophile's may be fixated on such details. Most probably don't pay attention to the details, so when they see a high end DAC being used, they assume all will be good, better, whatever.. In the end, the human ears/brains are most likely the limiting factor, but then many people do use their eyes and brains to hear. I guess their eyes double as hearing aids.:D
Yep all academic stuff and most likely not audible. :)
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I got a final offer from Visions for 1156 CAD (taxes in) but now after seeing this on Amazon, https://www.amazon.ca/DENON-AVR-X3700H- ... VNYVM?th=1 for 1208.45 CAD (plus taxes) I think I should go for this one.
Do you think the prices will dip down further for Black Friday or Boxing Day otherwise I am thinking of using the Visions price match program to beat this price further by 15% (which would be around 1161$~ )?
With Covid still on it is hard to say. The fact is, or was, the SR7013 had been on deep discount about 3 times last year. The lowest it went was $1149 iirc, but at $1,199 for quite a few days at Bestbuy and Amazon.ca So it is possible for the AVR-X3700H to go down to $899.. $1,156 for a brand new unit with 3 year warranty is very reasonable, if you can't wait. May be you can tell them you wouldn't wait for Black Friday if they could let it go for $999 or $1,099, worth a try anyway. If not, $1,156 taxes in is still hard to beat.

Here's just one example of the incredible discount offered last year.
 
A

Arun Prasad

Enthusiast
With Covid still on it is hard to say. The fact is, or was, the SR7013 had been on deep discount about 3 times last year. The lowest it went was $1149 iirc, but at $1,199 for quite a few days at Bestbuy and Amazon.ca So it is possible for the AVR-X3700H to go down to $899.. $1,156 for a brand new unit with 3 year warranty is very reasonable, if you can't wait. May be you can tell them you wouldn't wait for Black Friday if they could let it go for $999 or $1,099, worth a try anyway. If not, $1,156 taxes in is still hard to beat.

Here's just one example of the incredible discount offered last year.
yeah, it makes sense, Let me give a try! They do offer price drop protection for 60 days so any price drop during Black Friday week is also covered it seems.
 
M

MacCali

Audioholic
yeah, it makes sense, Let me give a try! They do offer price drop protection for 60 days so any price drop during Black Friday week is also covered it seems.
You can always try local audio shops and see if you can work them down on a open box/demo marantz. That's what I did, and I got mine for 1100, 2200 msrp, price dropped to 1700 amazon/bestbuy. You should try and get a open box or demo over used or refurbished.

Anything that is below 2020 is gone. New demo's have been distributed so you can find some great deals on those guys, 2018/2019 models

With denon and marantz you get a 3 year manufacturer warranty even on OB as long as the location is an authorized marantz or denon retailer. Only reason why I suggest that over A4L.com, you only get one year and most the time the open box price will be a little more or even less. I paid 200 dollars less than what A4L had the 7013 listed at and triple warranty

Second, if the place is not authorized you get no warranty at all. So it is something to keep in mind. When I was looking I found some really good deals, but the places were not authorized. So it is very risky to take that route, just in case something goes wrong repairs are on you and your savings down the drain.
 
A

Arun Prasad

Enthusiast
You can always try local audio shops and see if you can work them down on a open box/demo marantz. That's what I did, and I got mine for 1100, 2200 msrp, price dropped to 1700 amazon/bestbuy. You should try and get a open box or demo over used or refurbished.

Anything that is below 2020 is gone. New demo's have been distributed so you can find some great deals on those guys, 2018/2019 models

With denon and marantz you get a 3 year manufacturer warranty even on OB as long as the location is an authorized marantz or denon retailer. Only reason why I suggest that over A4L.com, you only get one year and most the time the open box price will be a little more or even less. I paid 200 dollars less than what A4L had the 7013 listed at and triple warranty

Second, if the place is not authorized you get no warranty at all. So it is something to keep in mind. When I was looking I found some really good deals, but the places were not authorized. So it is very risky to take that route, just in case something goes wrong repairs are on you and your savings down the drain.
You're right! I checked with one of the local dealers here and they are selling the Denon AVR-X4500H (Demo) for 1300 CAD taxes in (the actual price is CAD 2099) with a complete 3 years manufacturer warranty, he's even ready to offer the brand new model for the same price :) (I believe, I heard it correctly) They're about to close the store and I haven't had enough time to decide. I am a little confused now as I got offers for three different models within a similar price range,

AVR-X 3600 H - 1100 $
AVR-X 3700 H - 1200 $
AVR-X 4500 H - 1300 $

I know it's subjective but what do you think as the best bet here? Should I go for the one with more power or the latest one in the market considering I wouldn't upgrade my receiver often?
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
You're right! I checked with one of the local dealers here and they are selling the Denon AVR-X4500H (Demo) for 1300 CAD taxes in (the actual price is CAD 2099) with a complete 3 years manufacturer warranty, he's even ready to offer the brand new model for the same price :) (I believe, I heard it correctly) They're about to close the store and I haven't had enough time to decide. I am a little confused now as I got offers for three different models within a similar price range,

AVR-X 3600 H - 1100 $
AVR-X 3700 H - 1200 $
AVR-X 4500 H - 1300 $

I know it's subjective but what do you think as the best bet here? Should I go for the one with more power or the latest one in the market considering I wouldn't upgrade my receiver often?
I would suggest the AVR X3700H as it is more recent and you would have more future proof video features than with the 3600. For only $100 more, it's a good deal.
 

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