Denon/Marantz vs Yamaha vs Anthem Thread

[Ken32]

Pretty sure them issues have been long gone.... Especially since they’re now owned by the same company as Den, Marantz. I’ve had one issue with a DOA from their newer RZ line. To be fair my box looked like it survived WWII. Def thrown around by UPS. Probably kicked around to be fair...

Going on a year and a half or so and it’s been flawless and it doesn’t get hot no matter how hard it’s pushed. Just my thoughts.

 

[KEW]

I was looking at some AVRs from S&V magazine. This was before they stopped doing measurements.

But looking at some 4 ohm/2Ch power measurements, which is probably most indicative of true power performance, it looks like the Yamaha RX-A2000 series might be the most "cost-effective" in terms of dollar per watt when looking at Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, and Anthem. The $6000 Arcam is definitely the LEAST cost-effective.

But the bottom line might be that ANY of these AVRs, ranging from 173W to almost 300W, could probably power 99% of the systems in most rooms that are 18ft x 20ft or smaller.

Yamaha RX-A3000 series $2,000 294W x 2Ch 4 ohms
Denon X7200 $3000 266W x 2Ch 4 ohms
Yamaha RX-A2000 series $1600 260W x 2Ch 4 ohms
Arcam AVR850 $6000 249W x 2Ch 4 ohms
Anthem MRX 1120 $3500 243W x 2Ch 4 ohms
Denon X4000 series $1700 240W x 2Ch 4 ohms
Marantz SR7000 series $2,200 232W x 2Ch 4 ohms
Denon X3000 series $1200 177W x 2Ch 4 ohms
Yamaha RX-A1000 series $1200 173W x 2Ch 4 ohms

The problem with this information is you are comparing MSRP, while most of us would never pay MSRP for an AVR (when have you?)!

I bought my last AVR on Nov 29, 2020 and paid $549 for a Denon AVR-X3500H.
Unfortunately, I missed out on BestBuy selling it for $499!
What is the best price you have seen on the comparable (power-wise) 1060 or 1070 or 1080?
I believe you simply cannot find great deals on the Yamahas.
There are some things I like about Yamaha, but I believe they routinely cost at least 33% more than the equivalent Denon.
Throw in the unmatched flexibility of Audyssey XT 32, combined with the app, and the Denon is a no brainer!

 

[KEW]

When it comes to manual EQ, it's Yamaha's Parametric EQ.

Truly proper implementation of a parametric EQ would involve REW and taking measurements! If you are going to go to that level, you would be better off using XT 32 with the app and Ratbuddysey to give you miniDSP level control over EQ (if manual EQ is what you want). However, many have found that using the app to only give XT 32 control over the low frequencies avoids the problems with auto-EQ and gains all of the benefits! The app is a game-changer!

 

[snakeeyes]

2060 is the one I have. I wouldn’t change unless they had one with at least four HDMI 2.1 48G inputs.

Might be a couple years before that happens. The new Denons this year only have one HDMI 2.1 input and that port only does 40G. Likely will be similar news with the Yamahas since they probably get the same HDMI technology.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Truly proper implementation of a parametric EQ would involve REW and taking measurements! If you are going to go to that level, you would be better off using XT 32 with the app and Ratbuddysey to give you miniDSP level control over EQ (if manual EQ is what you want). However, many have found that using the app to only give XT 32 control over the low frequencies avoids the problems with auto-EQ and gains all of the benefits! The app is a game-changer!

No, as I said before, I don’t care to EQ above 100Hz because the sound above 100Hz never improves to me regardless of how flatter the in-room response graph looks - using REW or any auto-EQ.

I only EQ the bass below 100Hz to my auditory preference - getting that powerful impactful bass I can easily hear.

So the manual PEQ is for people who wants to EQ for preference sound that can easily be heard - the bass.

Auto-EQ is for making the in-room response graph look flatter and prettier. But it doesn’t automatically mean I would prefer the flatter in-room response.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The problem with this information is you are comparing MSRP, while most of us would never pay MSRP for an AVR (when have you?)!

I bought my last AVR on Nov 29, 2020 and paid $549 for a Denon AVR-X3500H.
Unfortunately, I missed out on BestBuy selling it for $499!
What is the best price you have seen on the comparable (power-wise) 1060 or 1070 or 1080?
I believe you simply cannot find great deals on the Yamahas.
There are some things I like about Yamaha, but I believe they routinely cost at least 33% more than the equivalent Denon.
Throw in the unmatched flexibility of Audyssey XT 32, combined with the app, and the Denon is a no brainer!

Feel free to make your own comparisons using “street prices”. It’s going to be a lot more difficult and take a lot more time since the street prices change all the time.

But the salient point about the comparison is NOT the prices. The important thing is the relative power performances.

If someone wants to know if the X4000 series can power his 4-ohm speakers, they can see that it can output 240W x 2Ch.

Is the difference between 240W and 294W significant? No, it's not.

If someone wants know if "AVRs" are capable of powering most speakers, they can see that most AVRs have plenty of power - 173W to almost 300W.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Pretty sure them issues have been long gone.... Especially since they’re now owned by the same company as Den, Marantz.

Onkyo is NOT owned by Sound United (who owns Denon, Marantz, DefTech, Classe, Polk, Boston Acoustics, HEOS).

Masimo - Home

Masimo Personal Health

www.soundunited.com

 

[Pogre]

No, as I said before, I don’t care to EQ above 100Hz because the sound above 100Hz never improves to me regardless of how flatter the in-room response graph looks - using REW or any auto-EQ.

I only EQ the bass below 100Hz to my auditory preference - getting that powerful impactful bass I can easily hear.

So the manual PEQ is for people who wants to EQ for preference sound that can easily be heard - the bass.

Auto-EQ is for making the in-room response graph look flatter and prettier. But it doesn’t automatically mean I would prefer the flatter in-room response.

With the app editor you have as much or as little PEQ you could possibly want! That editor, used with ratbuddyssey is a total game changer. It's as versatile as my MiniDSP 2x4 HD.

 

[KEW]

No, as I said before, I don’t care to EQ above 100Hz because the sound above 100Hz never improves to me regardless of how flatter the in-room response graph looks - using REW or any auto-EQ.

I only EQ the bass below 100Hz to my auditory preference - getting that powerful impactful bass I can easily hear.

So the manual PEQ is for people who wants to EQ for preference sound that can easily be heard - the bass.

Auto-EQ is for making the in-room response graph look flatter and prettier. But it doesn’t automatically mean I would prefer the flatter in-room response.

What you don't seem to acknowledge is that the Audyssey app for Denon and Marantz gives you manual control over the EQ, putting the essentially unlimited flexibility/control of XT 32 at your dispose!
Additionally, if you add Ratbuddyssey, you are afforded extreme precision.
The app gives you a graphic control interface and Ratbuddyssey adds the precision of numeric control if you so desire.
I say again (this time with emphasis), the app is a Game-Changer!

 

[KEW]

But looking at some 4 ohm/2Ch power measurements, which is probably most indicative of true power performance, it looks like the Yamaha RX-A2000 series might be the most "cost-effective" in terms of dollar per watt when looking at Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, and Anthem. The $6000 Arcam is definitely the LEAST cost-effective.

But the salient point about the comparison is NOT the prices.

Apologies, it really seemed to me like cost was a major point in your post!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Apologies, it really seemed to me like cost was a major point in your post!

But looking at some 4 ohm/2Ch power measurements, which is probably most indicative of true power performance, it looks like the Yamaha RX-A2000 series might be the most "cost-effective" in terms of dollar per watt when looking at Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, and Anthem. The $6000 Arcam is definitely the LEAST cost-effective.

But the bottom line might be that ANY of these AVRs, ranging from 173W to almost 300W, could probably power 99% of the systems in most rooms that are 18ft x 20ft or smaller.

Oh, I didn't realize that I made those "cost-effective" words BOLD to mean that they are the salient point.

I do remember saying that THE BOTTOM LINE might be that ANY of these AVRs, ranging from 173W to almost 300W, could probably power 99% of the systems in most rooms that are 18ft x 20ft or smaller.

BOTTOM LINE = takeaway/take-home message, in case you're wondering what bottom line is.

Maybe I need some footnotes after everything.

 

[RichB]

What you don't seem to acknowledge is that the Audyssey app for Denon and Marantz gives you manual control over the EQ, putting the essentially unlimited flexibility/control of XT 32 at your dispose!
Additionally, if you add Ratbuddyssey, you are afforded extreme precision.
The app gives you a graphic control interface and Ratbuddyssey adds the precision of numeric control if you so desire.
I say again (this time with emphasis), the app is a Game-Changer!

The XT32 app is good and as does Dirac (making its way into higher end products) and both have the ability to limit correction and to implement custom curves. Above Schroeder, broadband changes can be used to implement a house curve.

Unfortunately, the MICs and software do not hear as we do,. Humans are capable of filtering and recognizing direct and reflected sound. Correcting all sound (direct and reflected) can degrade on-axis response having a perceptible negative impact. The mic likes it, humans no so much.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What you don't seem to acknowledge is that the Audyssey app for Denon and Marantz gives you manual control over the EQ

Manual control over the EQ?

Wait, so you're saying that the editor App lets you do MANUAL EQ?

If you want to boost the 40Hz frequency by 2.5dB and Q=0.5, the Editor App allows you to MANUALLY EQ?

I thought the app only allows you to manually select which regions you want to allow the AUTO EQ to apply?

What if I don't want it to AUTO EQ? I want to only boost the 40Hz frequency by 2.5dB with the Q of 0.5. And not EQ anything else. Does the Audyssey App let you do this?

 

[KEW]

Oh, I didn't realize that I made those "cost-effective" words BOLD to mean that they are the salient point.

The bold was mine to make it clear what aspect of your post I was quoting.
As I read it, cost was a major point of your post.
No, it was not the "bottom line" but your post seemed to not be limited to that one point. Cost was included throughout your comparison.

 

[KEW]

The XT32 app is good and as does Dirac (making its way into higher end products) and both have the ability to limit correction and to implement custom curves. Above Schroeder, broadband changes can be used to implement a house curve.

Unfortunately, the MICs and software do not hear as we do,. Humans are capable of filtering and recognizing direct and reflected sound. Correcting all sound (direct and reflected) can degrade on-axis response having a perceptible negative impact. The mic likes it, humans no so much.

- Rich

My current usage is at 250Hz and below. I have not determined the specific Schroeder frequency for my room, but use 250 as an estimate. My objective is to be using XT 32 for addressing room nulls and nodes.
Do you have any advice or thoughts to share on this?
Thanks!

In the context of this discussion, I am pointing out that the app allows manual PEQ in response to ADTG's post that Yamaha was the only company that provided manual PEQ.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The XT32 app is good and as does Dirac (making its way into higher end products) and both have the ability to limit correction and to implement custom curves. Above Schroeder, broadband changes can be used to implement a house curve.

Unfortunately, the MICs and software do not hear as we do,. Humans are capable of filtering and recognizing direct and reflected sound. Correcting all sound (direct and reflected) can degrade on-axis response having a perceptible negative impact. The mic likes it, humans no so much.

- Rich

Oh, no, we don't care about what we ACTUALLY HEAR. No, no.

We just care that the REW graphs look flat on paper.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In the context of this discussion, I am pointing out that the app allows manual PEQ in response to ADTG's post that Yamaha was the only company that provided manual PEQ.

I did not realize that this editor app can be used as a Manual Parametric EQ.

So if I all you wanted was to boost 40Hz by 2.5dB Q=0.5 and boost 60Hz by 1.5dB Q=1.0, the editor app will do just these 2 changes and not EQ anything else?

This editor app can be used as a 100% Manual Parametric EQ?

 

[KEW]

Manual control over the EQ?

Wait, so you're saying that the editor App lets you do MANUAL EQ?

If you want to boost the 40Hz frequency by 2.5dB and Q=0.5, the Editor App allows you to MANUALLY EQ?

I thought the app only allows you to manually select which regions you want to allow the AUTO EQ to apply?

What if I don't want it to AUTO EQ? I want to only boost the 40Hz frequency by 2.5dB with the Q of 0.5. And not EQ anything else. Does the Audyssey App let you do this?

My understanding is that it will, but since I do not use it that way, I am getting in over my head!
@RickyT , @Pogre , or @PENG are better qualified than I to make sure we get these specifics right!

 

[Pogre]

Manual control over the EQ?

Wait, so you're saying that the editor App lets you do MANUAL EQ?

If you want to boost the 40Hz frequency by 2.5dB and Q=0.5, the Editor App allows you to MANUALLY EQ?

I thought the app only allows you to manually select which regions you want to allow the AUTO EQ to apply?

What if I don't want it to AUTO EQ? I want to only boost the 40Hz frequency by 2.5dB with the Q of 0.5. And not EQ anything else. Does the Audyssey App let you do this?

Yes, you can do MANUAL EQ and can boost 40 hz by 2.5 and a Q of ANYTHING. Have you used a MiniDSP? The editor with rb is every bit as precise.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, you can do MANUAL EQ and can boost 40 hz by 2.5 and a Q of ANYTHING. Have you used a MiniDSP? The editor with rb is every bit as precise.

Wow. Okay.

You might have said this before, but I thought when you said "manual" I thought you meant that you could manually select which regions to AUTO EQ.

But the editor app actually allows 100% manual Parametric EQ.

And it allows PEQ for every speaker and subwoofer?

So I stand corrected.

With this editor app, Yamaha does NOT have better manual EQ than DM. It's the OTHER way around. With this app, DM actually has better PEQ than Yamaha.

So if you are into EQ - Auto or Manual - DM has better EQ either way.

But for people who only care to EQ something extremely simple - a few frequency points from 20-80Hz - then the Yamaha manual PEQ will suffice.