Denon DVD-5910CI DVD Player Review

[gene]

While I do think the 5910 is a great player, I also think it is a poor value. The arguement about HD DVD and Bluray not having enough content i moot now in my eye's.

All of which was noted in my review and hence the average value rating. Though the average value rating was more because the 3910CI is nearly as good as the 5910CI at a fraction of the price. There is still no Blu-ray or HD player that can do SD as good as either of these Denon players.

I have great respect for Gene's reviews {he writes the best ones I've read} but having to watch lethal weapon 1 or water world simply isn't the case. In the past few months I have watched MI:3, King Kong, Xmen 3, You, Me and Dupree, Nacho Libre, Kiss Of The Dragon, Unleashed, Talladega Nights, Ice Age 2, Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, The Last Samurai, Troy, FF: Tokyo Drift, and many many others...

Thats great, of course I was being a bit sarcastic but they do appear to be getting a decent selection of titles in none of which I've seen in my local retailers as of yet.

Also you do not need 6 analog cables to enjoy the new sound formats, you simply need an HDMI capable receiver and an HDMI cable.

No receiver or pre/pro decodes DTS HD or DD TruHD yet so if you want to hear those formats you still do need the 6 analog cables. HDMI will only pass DD+,DD and DTS along with CD, DVD-A and SACD to the processor.

 

[Sleestack]

While I do think the 5910 is a great player, I also think it is a poor value. The arguement about HD DVD and Bluray not having enough content i moot now in my eye's.

While many of these aren't the greatest movies, my point is now All new releases are coming out on either Bluray or HD DVD. And let's face it spending that kind of money just to rewatch an few old favorite flicks you have seen a million times.

I can understand why the 5910ci isn't considered great "value" by someone seeking a value purchase, however, given the target market, I think it provides uncompromising reference video and audio at a reasonable price. For those who want the best reference audio/video piece for their existing library, I'm not sure that anything else really fits the bill.

Many people who have high end setups also have large libraries of DVDs, some of which will never make it to HD format. While the new HD releases have been picking up pace, there is simply too large a library of great films that are only on DVD. Plenty of film buffs and videophiles rewatch films almost as often as music lovers listen to their favorite music. Also, I'm not sure how many times I can watch the HD eye candy of most of the terrible movies that are on HD formats right now.

Also the counter arguement is, "It's an excellent SACD player". When infact there are even less SACD's in your average store than there are just HD DVD's and that media has been around long enough to know if it will hit mainstream. Also SACD only has releases in certain kinds of music so if your genre isn't included well then....

SACD and DVD-A. There are thousands of titles available on these formats. any store like the defunct Tower or Amoeba, will have far more SACDs and DVD-As than HD movies. Online, its not even comparable.

 

[MAX661]

No receiver or pre/pro decodes DTS HD or DD TruHD yet so if you want to hear those formats you still do need the 6 analog cables. HDMI will only pass DD+,DD and DTS along with CD, DVD-A and SACD to the processor.

The receiver may not decode it yet, But I am currently allowing my HD DVD player to do the decoding of TrueHD and passing it as raw pcm form over HDMI to my Denon 5805MKII. So you do not need 6 analog cables, as I said earlier you simply need an HDMI compatible receiver.

 

[Tawnos]

I also think it is a poor value.

And some people might think that the $100 DVD player is of poor value when you can get one for $30.

And let's face it spending that kind of money just to rewatch an few old favorite flicks you have seen a million times.

Who says its only used for movies? Why have a high end DAC just to listen to the same CD's over and over?

Also you do not need 6 analog cables to enjoy the new sound formats, you simply need an HDMI capable receiver and an HDMI cable.

The receiver may not decode it yet, But I am currently allowing my HD DVD player to do the decoding of TrueHD and passing it as raw pcm form over HDMI to my Denon 5805MKII. So you do not need 6 analog cables, as I said earlier you simply need an HDMI compatible receiver.

Here it comes, lets jimmy rig the audio so we can get it to work. Once again you are supporting something that has not even left the ground! The smart people are waiting for HDMI 1.3 and receivers/processors that can do it right.

 

[jmrife]

Come on over boy we got plenty of viddles,heck we can even wash it down with a couple of gulps of Wild Turkey.

City boys know a lot about expensive toys, but not everything!

The word is "vittles", a corruption of "victual".

And I would bet my 3930 agin' yer 5910 you ain't never et no possum! And probably not Wild Turkey, either!

'Fess up now ("Fess up" is a corruption of "Confess"), ya hear?

 

[MAX661]

Here it comes, lets jimmy rig the audio so we can get it to work. Once again you are supporting something that has not even left the ground! The smart people are waiting for HDMI 1.3 and receivers/processors that can do it right.

Wow Tawnos, once again you are so far off I dont think your reply is even from this planet. I will answer you once and that's it, you can continue but if memory serves me correct in another thread you were bashing me and levesque saying it's not possible to get TrueHD sound and 1080p through the current HDMI 1.1 & 1.2, we argued for days and then Toshiba came out with a firmware upgrade that allowed it. All of a sudden you disappeared and retreated while me and levesque enjoyed Training Day in TrueHD that day.

Now months later you come back and instead of saying it's not possible you say "JimmyRig" what is jimmyrigged about using 1 cable to enjoy Dolby TrueHD today? Batman Begins sure sounded great and from the reviews I have read Superman will sound awesome tomorrow. Enjoy your narrow minded comments...

As for poor value, what I meant was investing so much into an old format when there are new options on the horizon. For the price of a 5910CI I can buy a current gen Bluray player {say Pioneer} the new Toshiba XA2 {with all the goodies} and have money leftover for an excellent redbook CD/ SACD player/ DVD Player and still keep change in my pocket. On the movie side I would have superior Video and Audio, and on the strictly audio side I am sure I could get 90% of the performance for the limited SACD's out there. {none in my genre although there may be many in other peoples which is why they see a value} you cannot compare this to $30 - $100 DVD player value.

I am far from a penny pincher and have overhauled my entire system pretty much every year because I like to sample different things, but in this hobby there is an extreme point of diminishing returns. The Denon 5805MKII I use is extremely expensive for a receiver, but it has enough substance in it to make it a good value. I am sure the new CI is an even better value and it's products like these that deserve praise.

Like I said before I am well aware of the Denon being a top performer but that still doesn't justify it not having a severe price cut. Every other manufacturer from Pioneer to Onkyo have reduced there price on there flagship players and are looking towards improving the future.

 

[Sleestack]

Like I said before I am well aware of the Denon being a top performer but that still doesn't justify it not having a severe price cut. Every other manufacturer from Pioneer to Onkyo have reduced there price on there flagship players and are looking towards improving the future.

It isn't just a top performer. It is THE top performer. I think that's the difference. In the high end market, users know that the 5910ci is the best and want the reference piece for their systems. The other manufacturers don't have pieces that really compete with the 5910ci. High end users are also buying compromised first generation HD DVD and Blu-ray players to experience the new format, but with the quality of the image and audio of the 5910ci, there is plenty of reason to keep a dedicated DVD player. I also just don't think the 5910ci is all that expensive for what you get.

 

[gene]

The receiver may not decode it yet, But I am currently allowing my HD DVD player to do the decoding of TrueHD and passing it as raw pcm form over HDMI to my Denon 5805MKII. So you do not need 6 analog cables, as I said earlier you simply need an HDMI compatible receiver.

Its my understanding that current Gen HD DVD players will re-encode TrueHD to DD+ and send that out via HDMI. I heard the next gen Toshiba and others will allow raw PCM output of TrueHD. I will be getting a Gen 2 player after CES to test out.

Ideally however, we would have HDMI 1.3 with a processor that can decode these new formats but we are still quite a ways off from that right now.

I will answer you once and that's it, you can continue but if memory serves me correct in another thread you were bashing me and levesque saying it's not possible to get TrueHD sound and 1080p through the current HDMI 1.1 & 1.2, we argued for days and then Toshiba came out with a firmware upgrade that allowed it.

Was the firmware update for passing 5.1 TrueHD via the analog outputs or raw PCM thru HDMI or both? Their website is vague about this. Did you compare the sound quality of the analog outputs to the HDMI when playing a disc encoded in TrueHD?

 

[Tawnos]

Wow Tawnos, once again you are so far off I dont think your reply is even from this planet. I will answer you once and that's it, you can continue but if memory serves me correct in another thread you were bashing me and levesque saying it's not possible to get TrueHD sound and 1080p through the current HDMI 1.1 & 1.2, we argued for days and then Toshiba came out with a firmware upgrade that allowed it. All of a sudden you disappeared and retreated while me and levesque enjoyed Training Day in TrueHD that day.

Wrong again, you can not pass a 1080p signal with trueHD/DTS master over a HDMI cable other then 1.3 (so you jimmy it down to PCM and say it is the same). Do you understand what you are missing, take a SD dvd player and have that do the decoding then have your receiver do it and you will notice how much better it sounds. The same thing will happen with HDMI 1.3 and new hardware.

Now months later you come back and instead of saying it's not possible you say "JimmyRig" what is jimmyrigged about using 1 cable to enjoy Dolby TrueHD today? Batman Begins sure sounded great and from the reviews I have read Superman will sound awesome tomorrow. Enjoy your narrow minded comments...

And if HD dvd goes under? The SD versions on a high end system will sound far better.

 

[Tawnos]

Its my understanding that current Gen HD DVD players will re-encode TrueHD to DD+ and send that out via HDMI.

I would not doubt it just like the video signal.

 

[MAX661]

Its my understanding that current Gen HD DVD players will re-encode TrueHD to DD+ and send that out via HDMI. I heard the next gen Toshiba and others will allow raw PCM output of TrueHD. I will be getting a Gen 2 player after CES to test out.

Ideally however, we would have HDMI 1.3 with a processor that can decode these new formats but we are still quite a ways off from that right now.



Was the firmware update for passing 5.1 TrueHD via the analog outputs or raw PCM thru HDMI or both? Their website is vague about this. Did you compare the sound quality of the analog outputs to the HDMI when playing a disc encoded in TrueHD?

The firware update 2.0 from Toshiba allows for 5.1 TrueHD to be passed using either the analog outputs or raw PCM thru HDMI, It also addressed the 720p problem. There is no conversion of TrueHD to DD+ when using current HDMI either 1.1 or 1.2, The Toshiba players do however re-encode anything into DTS when sent out over optical.

Hope this helps Gene, please understand I was not questioning your review. I have the utmost respect for you when it comes to your reviews. I was simply stating that the alternatives out there are cheaper and only getting better in a fairly short period of time. I just hope Denon chooses to put as much effort into there HD DVD or Blu-ray {whoever they choose to back} players.

 

[Tawnos]

There is no conversion of TrueHD to DD+ when using current HDMI either 1.1 or 1.2

Link? And not some other forum, something from toshiba.

 

[gene]

Hope this helps Gene, please understand I was not questioning your review. I have the utmost respect for you when it comes to your reviews. I was simply stating that the alternatives out there are cheaper and only getting better in a fairly short period of time. I just hope Denon chooses to put as much effort into there HD DVD or Blu-ray {whoever they choose to back} players.

Thanks for clarifying and I understand. Did you compare the fidelity of TrueHD via HDMI vs analog on your 5805?

I sure hope at least one of these new formats succeed beyond niche market status as I am certainly a fan of better audio and video quality. I would love to watch concert videos of Pat Metheny, Genesis, U2, etc via HD or Blu ray with high res audio to boot. It just bugs me that the industry once again is locked into a format war and confusing the end users. I feel 2007 will either make or break these formats. We shall see.

 

[Tawnos]

MAX661 but your player can not output a 1080p signal or dolby true HD in a non PCM environment.

 

[gene]

MAX661 but your player can not output a 1080p signal or dolby true HD in a non PCM environment.

Yea but true 720p can be pretty amazing.

Dolby TrueHD is PCM. However, you cannot send the TrueHD bitstream from the DVD player unless its HDMI 1.3 capable. The question is, how much signal degradation (if any) is there sending raw PCM to the processor as opposed to having the processor do the decoding?

 

[MACCA350]

Yea but true 720p can be pretty amazing.

Dolby TrueHD is PCM. However, you cannot send the TrueHD bitstream from the DVD player unless its HDMI 1.3 capable. The question is, how much signal degradation (if any) is there sending raw PCM to the processor as opposed to having the processor do the decoding?

Even with HDMI 1.3 and a receiver capable of decoding, you still cant send Dolby TrueHD to the receiver for decoding unless the content provider of the HD-DVD has encoded the disc appropriately to allow the player to bypass the internal mixing and output the Raw Dolby TrueHD Bitstream. To date NONE of the HD-DVD's on the market are encoded to allow Raw Dolby TrueHD Bitstream to be output! Until they do, if they ever do, forget about HDMI 1.3 being the audio nirvana

cheers

 

[surveyor]

I enjoyed the review.
This unit combined with the 5805XX and some fine speakers will compete with the best seperates IMO.

Kelly

 

[gene]

I enjoyed the review.
This unit combined with the 5805XX and some fine speakers will compete with the best seperates IMO.

Yep they sure do. This is the rig I am using in my primary reference system along with the RBH T30-LSE system and its awesome!

 

[Tawnos]

However, you cannot send the TrueHD bitstream from the DVD player unless its HDMI 1.3 capable. The question is, how much signal degradation (if any) is there sending raw PCM to the processor as opposed to having the processor do the decoding?

True and I will never understand why these fanboys will support a first generation player that is in my mind horrible. It is kind of funny how they only care about resoulution yet their players can not output a 1080p signal.

To date NONE of the HD-DVD's on the market are encoded to allow Raw Dolby TrueHD Bitstream to be output! Until they do, if they ever do, forget about HDMI 1.3 being the audio nirvana

I think the HD dvd fanboys just started to cry.

 

[Sleestack]

True and I will never understand why these fanboys will support a first generation player that is in my mind horrible. It is kind of funny how they only care about resoulution yet their players can not output a 1080p signal.
.

I'm no fandboy and do use the Panasonic Blu-ray player and the 5910ci. The only reason I support a first generation product is b/c it is giving me what I want now...an amazing picture on my 65" 1080p panel that showcases its capabilities. I think many of the high end early adopters simply don't like to wait and plan on turning over their products when something better comes along. I turned over my 5910 for new 5910ci b/c I wasn't willing to wait for the turnaround time on an upgrade, so I'm not going to sweat buying a first generation POS that will be replaced in 6 months. I think right now, the HD formats are more for anxious videophiles than film buffs.