Denon AVR-X1200W setup help please

[rbl]

What do you mean you set the crossover to both 80 and 100? A crossover is a single number, the crossover between speaker and sub....

Seems a bit odd all the speaker levels were set into negative trim numbers. The noise floor and levels per the meter are low but like Peng says....

Sorry but your did not read what I said .....

I set the crossovers to 80 and I set the SUB - to 100.

 

[lovinthehd]

Sorry but your did not read what I said .....

I set the crossovers to 80 and I set the SUB - to 100.

Ok, but you said you set the sub to LFE (LFE normally bypasses the low pass filter on your sub). Usually you just want to get that low pass filter out of the way by maxing it out rather than combine it with the one the avr is providing in any case. Thought maybe you were referring to the LPF of LFE as a crossover.

 

[rbl]

Seems confusing to me as well. My sub is a Klipsch reference R-12SW. The input is a single line and on the L/LFE.

The manual (skimpy) says to set the low pass filter knob on the subwoofer to 160 Hz and then set the crossover in the AVR to the same as the front speakers (80). I set it at 100 instead.

My room is purpose built. Large, 9' ceilings and fully insulated for sound dampening. Maybe that is why the Audyssey set all the speakers to a negative value ??

I used the phone app just to see what it was doing but the Audyssey setup set the levels.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

IIRC my speakers have always been calibrated into negative numbers.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

IIRC my speakers have always been calibrated into negative numbers.

Mine have always as well. Especially mains which aren’t super sensitive, but 92db is pretty good.

OP, the reason why Audyssey is setting negative values is that klipsch are usually pretty sensitive(haven’t looked at yours specifically yet) and the more sensitive they are, the easier they are to drive. So when Audyssey pings them, it adjusts accordingly. The only time this is usually a problem is with subwoofers as being set to low can (-12 for example) not send a strong enough signal for the auto on function. Fwiw, that’s a pretty big room for a single 12” klipsch sub. I would look at something more capable, or at least a second matching one.

 

[lovinthehd]

While I can understand more sensitive speakers being set into the negative, that would be relative to the speaker set as well as distances from MLP. Seems odd that they're all -5 or greater rather than one set being more the baseline and closer to zero. Might have to go dig around Audyssey zendesk and see if there's any info on that. I wonder if that they're in-wall and missing some usual reflections if that's part of it.

Yes, looking at your sub manual they do indicate you should still max out the low pass filter on the sub to 160 even when using the L/LFE input (so in this case the sub apparently doesn't cut out the low pass circuit automatically as some do). I'm not clear on what you set to 100 if you did this and the fronts are set to cross at 80 (your speakers are all the same so I'd just use the same crossover for all of them). In any case, your sub only has a low pass filter, not a crossover (which is both a low pass filter and a high pass filter working together).

I thought you were just using the phone app as a backup measurement. If you did want to do manual setup I'd recommend a measurement mic like the Dayton UMM-6 or miniDSP Umik-1 along with REW (Room EQ Wizard) for software.

Seems confusing to me as well. My sub is a Klipsch reference R-12SW. The input is a single line and on the L/LFE.

The manual (skimpy) says to set the low pass filter knob on the subwoofer to 160 Hz and then set the crossover in the AVR to the same as the front speakers (80). I set it at 100 instead.

My room is purpose built. Large, 9' ceilings and fully insulated for sound dampening. Maybe that is why the Audyssey set all the speakers to a negative value ??

I used the phone app just to see what it was doing but the Audyssey setup set the levels.

 

[rbl]

There is a setting in the AVR for the sub crossover but I will change it to 80 and then all speakers are the same.

You guys talk about this stuff like it is simple ... we need to discuss some good mechanical engineering and pump station design then I can keep up ... lol. But, that's why I am here to get the right advice -- thank you!

I actually don't like a lot of bass so the one sub will likely suit me. I have lost a lot of the high freq hearing with age and I don't like to really crank things up too loud.

The Klipsch reference speakers are stupid price but I did get a deal on the whole package. It is very likely that with the in-wall setup I am loosing a lot of the reflection. The cavity is ony 3.5" deep (2 x 4 wall) and the syeaker guts pretty much fill it up. Klipsch told me that is how they were designed so install.

I will say that they do have a clear crisp sound and far superior to the old Bose stuff I had.

 

[PENG]

OK ... think I may have it.
now. I ran the Audyssey setup again after turning down the sub gain a little more.
I set all of the crossovers to 80 and the sub to LFE and the crossover to 100.

I got these results for the Audyssey levels:
LF -6
C -5
RF -6
RS -8
RBS -5 Back surround
LBS -5 Back surround
LS -8.5
Sub -6

Klipsch speakers, including the in-wall models, typically have higher than average sensitivity so the negative numbers are probably normal. If you want to be sure, you can do a factory reset and run Audyssey again, follow instructions to the letter. You may want to read up on the article linked below:

http://www.willowville.net/ht/Audyssey Setup Guide.pdf

I downloaded a level meter app for the phone with a 4.7 rating (good)

My room ambient was ~ 25

I set the AVR level to -45 (a bit on the loud side for listening but no offensive.

Then I went to manual speaker levels with the pink noise test tone.
Walked thru every speaker and the sub and all are right at 53 dB ±1

As I mentioned before, your downloaded App most likely use "A" weighting. You should use "C" weighting but you might have trouble finding an App that use C weighting. You may have to buy one:

https://uedata.amazon.com/RadioShack-Digital-Sound-Level-33-2055/dp/B00ADR71WU

I think this tells me that the levels at my seating position are about the same from each speaker - correct? And, this is what we want correct?

Thanks

Not necessarily, depending on the individual room's acoustics characteristics, even for the same kind of speakers and at the same distance, they may not produce the exact same sound level at your listening position.

 

[lovinthehd]

There is a setting in the AVR for the sub crossover but I will change it to 80 and then all speakers are the same.

You guys talk about this stuff like it is simple ... we need to discuss some good mechanical engineering and pump station design then I can keep up ... lol. But, that's why I am here to get the right advice -- thank you!

I actually don't like a lot of bass so the one sub will likely suit me. I have lost a lot of the high freq hearing with age and I don't like to really crank things up too loud.

The Klipsch reference speakers are stupid price but I did get a deal on the whole package. It is very likely that with the in-wall setup I am loosing a lot of the reflection. The cavity is ony 3.5" deep (2 x 4 wall) and the syeaker guts pretty much fill it up. Klipsch told me that is how they were designed so install.

I will say that they do have a clear crisp sound and far superior to the old Bose stuff I had.

LOL it can take a while to familiarize yourself with all the terminology/details

No, your avr has a setting for LPF of LFE which isn't a sub crossover (it's simply a limit on the content of the .1 channel, which is typically 120hz and I'd recommend that setting). What I meant about reflections is that a normal speaker's speakers relatively narrow baffle allows reflections from behind, whereas an in-wall uses the whole wall as a baffle.

 

[PENG]

There is a setting in the AVR for the sub crossover but I will change it to 80 and then all speakers are the same.

No, not really, not for Denon/Marantz AVRs. They do have a setting called LPF for LFE, but as lovinthehd mentioned, this is not a crossover as such, it is a low pass filter.

Owner's manual page 195:

The default is 120 Hz, you should just leave it alone. If you set it to 80 Hz, you may lose some of the information in the LFE channel.

 

[PENG]

hey hd, can you type a little slower, please..

 

[rbl]

Hahha -- you guys are cool and obviously very knowledgeable. I will set the AVR to 120 Hz. I may just buy a real meter and check. I see they run $17-$45. Give me a recommendation from Amazon please.

Are there any videos/movies on Amazon or on the Roku that have 7.1 Dolby? I would like to hear one. I only have Dish, Roku and Amazon Prime. I have a Blue Player player but the movies are $$$$$$ so that is over budget for the most part.

 

[lovinthehd]

Rather than an spl meter I'd suggest if you want to get serious about your audio to get a measurement mic like the Dayton UMM-6 or miniDSP Umik-1 and use it with software like Room EQ Wizard (REW). They can do spl meter functions and more. Couldn't recommend an spl meter myself....altho the basic Radio Shack model used to be pretty popular.

Not familiar with the apps on a Roku but most streamed movies I think are only provided with a 5.1 soundtrack soundtrack that I know of, many using the Dolby Digital + codec (which can also be provided in 7ch, think Vudu has some). Probably best you look up specifics with each provider for your Roku model. For better picture and sound quality I rent blurays from Netflix and only buy the ones I want to have for the long run.

 

[rbl]

I was going to try Netflix and see if they had anything. Seemed like they were limited on movies and we don't care for the horror and wild stuff.

What does it cost to rent a Blue Ray and I assume it is done via mail?

 

[lovinthehd]

I have the three bluray disc (a small upcharge from dvd) plan and it is done by mail; they ship the next films fairly quickly, seems like they're scanned at the post office during the return leg. I regularly go thru 12-18 movies/month. Currently that's $31/month including the streaming package. I don't watch horror flicks much either, but am a movie junkie overall.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I was going to try Netflix and see if they had anything. Seemed like they were limited on movies and we don't care for the horror and wild stuff.

What does it cost to rent a Blue Ray and I assume it is done via mail?

I think Red box is 3 bucks for BD and about a buck for dvd(which your bd player can use).
Not sure what exactly “Wild stuff” means to you but Lone survivor is one of my favorites for surround effects. You’ll be checking the Sheetrock for bullet holes!

 

[rbl]

I think Red box is 3 bucks for BD and about a buck for dvd(which your bd player can use).
Not sure what exactly “Wild stuff” means to you but Lone survivor is one of my favorites for surround effects. You’ll be checking the Sheetrock for bullet holes!

I will search for that tonight - thanks for the tip.

 

[rbl]

I have the three bluray disc (a small upcharge from dvd) plan and it is done by mail; they ship the next films fairly quickly, seems like they're scanned at the post office during the return leg. I regularly go thru 12-18 movies/month. Currently that's $31/month including the streaming package. I don't watch horror flicks much either, but am a movie junkie overall.

Can you brake that out for me? I thought Netflix was unlimited Blue Ray w/2 out for $14/month ... more to it than that. It is really hard to find information on their website.

Also. Same movie and one is on DVD and other on Blue Ray. Is there a difference ... my projector only does 1080p/I .... no 4K

 

[lovinthehd]

The three discs are 19.99/mo (would be 15.99 for dvd only). Streaming is 10.99 for 2 screens/HD. I have a 1080p plasma no 4K myself, and think the extra edge of both better video resolution and the 7.1 and lossless audio are worth going to bluray for.

 

[rbl]

I think Red box is 3 bucks for BD and about a buck for dvd(which your bd player can use).
Not sure what exactly “Wild stuff” means to you but Lone survivor is one of my favorites for surround effects. You’ll be checking the Sheetrock for bullet holes!

I watched Lone Survivor last night and I did not find quite what you said. A ton of shooting for sure but virtually nothing fron the surround speakers. The ARV said it was PCM in 2 channel. I watched it from Dish and on demand.