Denon AVC-A1H, special request for Gene to review and bench test this new beast!

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If I spent $6K on an AVR, that's what I would do, and will use external DAC, or high quality streamer to take advanatge of the balanced inputs for stereo, otherwise may as way get the AV10.

Very rare to have balanced inputs on AVRs or even AVPs, you won't find them on the Anthem AVM90 prepro that costs a lot more.

No way I'm spending $6K+ on any AVR, AVP, Preamp, or Amp anymore. Those days are gone.

As for Balanced L/R Inputs, the Yamaha RX-A6A AVR has both balanced L/R Inputs and balanced L/R Outputs.

But yeah, it seems like many AVP just have balanced outputs, but mainly just HDMI Inputs, not balanced Inputs.

 

[gene]

With those kind of numbers you could let the A1H drive the front 3 or base 5 then just buy an amp to drive the rears and heights. Wouldn't need to be something super pricey or robust since the rears and heights don't need as much power to drive

Complete waste of this receiver to not use at least 9 of the 15 internal amplifiers.

 

[Kleinst]

The fact is, AVR and non-powered speakers and subs (within same brand) are a lot less expensive than AVP and powered speakers.

For example, the least expensive AVP from Massimo is $3200 (AV7706, made in Vietnam).

Imagine how expensive the Revel Salon2 and B&W 801D4 would be if they put amps inside them?

Unless you think most people are getting a lot richer, why would most people buy AVP and powered speakers?

About 90% of HT consumers buy AVR, not AVP. Probably 99% of consumers buy passive speakers. For a very good reason.

Right, and also consider that there are a lot more people who are buying soundbars (I think) or heaven forbit using the speakers in their TV... Who would ever do that.

 

[Kleinst]

Quoting this, and your post 46. Was interesting that you noted the 805. That was an absolute beast, almost legendary lol. I had an 808, that imo didn’t run hot at all, and not nearly as hot as my Marantz 6012(although eco mode and attached to my Yamaha amp makes it moot)or even more so my pioneer, but it did have a board failure. They fixed it no problem.
That 808 imo, was the last of the ol beast AVR’s, at least from Onkyo. One of the reasons I bought it was the THX certification, but more so the bench tests which supported the certification.

I had the 806 and that one burned me and I haven't wanted an Onkyo since. That might not be fair but it is what it is.

 

[dlaloum]

If I spent $6K on an AVR, that's what I would do, and will use external DAC, or high quality streamer to take advanatge of the balanced inputs for stereo, otherwise may as way get the AV10.

Very rare to have balanced inputs on AVRs or even AVPs, you won't find them on the Anthem AVM90 prepro that costs a lot more.

Given a substantial contributor to system performance is Room EQ, which requires processing - the limitations of digital resolution and quality are likely driven by the AVR's DSP, and the maximum data rate/resolution/capabilities of that DSP.

I would strongly question whether any gain is to be had from an external DAC, given you need to re-digitise the signal within the AVR, process it, and then run it through the AVR DAC output.

And if you opt for the "purist" analogue signal path (pure direct or pure audio option on various AVR's) - then you lose the Room EQ capabilities which have a far more substantial impact on sound quality than the choice of DAC!!!

(unless of course, your "stereo DAC" includes its own Room EQ / Processing etc..., in which case the AVR can act as an analogue pre and power...)

 

[snakeeyes]

That 5805 was a serious beast.

 

[panteragstk]

I had the 806 and that one burned me and I haven't wanted an Onkyo since. That might not be fair but it is what it is.

That model had to follow the 805, which was one of the best.

I have an 809 and it had to be warrentied for the HDMI board, but worked great for years before the board died, and has worked since.

Man, that thing is getting old. I've had it 12 years already.

 

[Danzilla31]

That model had to follow the 805, which was one of the best.

I have an 809 and it had to be warrentied for the HDMI board, but worked great for years before the board died, and has worked since.

Man, that thing is getting old. I've had it 12 years already.

I owned the 809 loved that unit.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Loved my 808 too. Worked great before and after replacing the board. I really have to applaud them for taking on the task of replacing all those boards, even well past any reasonable warranty time.

 

[Kleinst]

Loved my 808 too. Worked great before and after replacing the board. I really have to applaud them for taking on the task of replacing all those boards, even well past any reasonable warranty time.

I probably didn't challenge them hard enough to fix my 806. It wasn't listed as an option but sounds like if I'd been a bigger pain in the ass I might have got my way. But I was really disappointed.

 

[panteragstk]

I probably didn't challenge them hard enough to fix my 806. It wasn't listed as an option but sounds like if I'd been a bigger pain in the ass I might have got my way. But I was really disappointed.

My warranty experience with Onkyo was excellent. I didn't even pay shipping. They sent a box and UPS picked it up. They fixed it and sent it back. Been working great ever since.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I probably didn't challenge them hard enough to fix my 806. It wasn't listed as an option but sounds like if I'd been a bigger pain in the ass I might have got my way. But I was really disappointed.

I think you’re right. I wasn’t even a PITA. And they just totally made it easy. Obviously it didn’t go that way for everyone. I have no doubt I would be disappointed were I in your shoes too.

My warranty experience with Onkyo was excellent. I didn't even pay shipping. They sent a box and UPS picked it up. They fixed it and sent it back. Been working great ever since.

That was my experience too. Easy and quick even. I sold it to my neighbors cousin to power their HT a few years ago. It’s still rockin!

 

[AVR Enthu]

The article reads: "Next-gen gamers, take note". I am sorry to be a party-breaker, but this super expensive machine still hosts HDMI 2.1 chips with 40 Gbps inputs and outputs. After four years of developments in labs, we are not seeing full speed chips with 48 Gbps. Why is this? Are experimental chips running too hot? Are they unstable?

We have ever increasing number of sources and sink devices that can handle 48 Gbps signals, from graphics cards in PCs to TVs and monitors. New AVRs should be able to handle the same bandwidth. It would be great to know when full speed HDMI ports would be introduced, so that all AVRs are more future-proof regarding video connectivity. If there is any expert in these matters, please share your thoughts, so that consumers are aware of what to expect in next couple of years.

 

[ryanosaur]

The article reads: "Next-gen gamers, take note". I am sorry to be a party-breaker, but this super expensive machine still hosts HDMI 2.1 chips with 40 Gbps inputs and outputs. After four years of developments in labs, we are not seeing full speed chips with 48 Gbps. Why is this? Are experimental chips running too hot? Are they unstable?

We have ever increasing number of sources and sink devices that can handle 48 Gbps signals, from graphics cards in PCs to TVs and monitors. New AVRs should be able to handle the same bandwidth. It would be great to know when full speed HDMI ports would be introduced, so that all AVRs are more future-proof regarding video connectivity. If there is any expert in these matters, please share your thoughts, so that consumers are aware of what to expect in next couple of years.

Wasn't it you that pointed out the Analog Devices 48gbps chipset was only released in Autumn last year... well after these machines had likely been in development?

I agree. It's ridiculous that this is still a problem... though a relatively minor one. Today it may not be a big deal, but in 5 years...


One other note, in a recent interview Hobie from Monolith-Monoprice said that their big obstacle with their updating the HDMI of the HTP-1 is that the 2.1 chipsets have higher power requirements and would complicate the issue by needing to update the power supply in the AVP to accommodate.

 

[ryanosaur]

Wasn't it you that pointed out the Analog Devices 48gbps chipset was only released in Autumn last year... well after these machines had likely been in development?

I agree. It's ridiculous that this is still a problem... though a relatively minor one. Today it may not be a big deal, but in 5 years...


One other note, in a recent interview Hobie from Monolith-Monoprice said that their big obstacle with their updating the HDMI of the HTP-1 is that the 2.1 chipsets have higher power requirements and would complicate the issue by needing to update the power supply in the AVP to accommodate.

I should add that HDMI to the TV and Earc to the AVR/AVP is still a viable option, as is running separate audio direct to AVR if necessary to avoid weird delay issues.

 

[ban25]

The article reads: "Next-gen gamers, take note". I am sorry to be a party-breaker, but this super expensive machine still hosts HDMI 2.1 chips with 40 Gbps inputs and outputs. After four years of developments in labs, we are not seeing full speed chips with 48 Gbps. Why is this? Are experimental chips running too hot? Are they unstable?

We have ever increasing number of sources and sink devices that can handle 48 Gbps signals, from graphics cards in PCs to TVs and monitors. New AVRs should be able to handle the same bandwidth. It would be great to know when full speed HDMI ports would be introduced, so that all AVRs are more future-proof regarding video connectivity. If there is any expert in these matters, please share your thoughts, so that consumers are aware of what to expect in next couple of years.

The big difference with 48Gbps is that it allows uncompressed 4:4:4 chroma for 4K120 & 8K60 resolutions, assuming you have a 12-bit panel and source. The PS5 is capped at 32 Gbps and the Xbox Series X is 40 Gbps, so those sources can only do 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 at best while outputting 4K120.

Long story short, I'm not too worried about 40 Gbps ports on current-gen AVRs, because it will require another generation of game consoles and the proliferation of high-framerate 8K displays for these ports to become a bottleneck. By the time that happens, there will be 40 channel "Super Atmos" and you'll want to upgrade anyway.

 

[ryanosaur]

By the time that happens, there will be 40 channel "Super Atmos" and you'll want to upgrade anyway.

And that'll just be the $1200 Onkyo option with sh!tty Amp Stage performance!

 

[ryanosaur]

The PS5 is capped at 32 Gbps and the Xbox Series X is 40 Gbps, so those sources can only do 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 at best while outputting 4K120.

Interesting... I hadn't heard this before.

 

[snakeeyes]

No 12bit panels I know about so seems like 40g is ok.

 

[Trell]

Interesting... I hadn't heard this before.

And then, of course, the TV has to support that bandwidth as well. For audio that big bandwidth is not needed at all.

So, for gamers the 48 Gbps could be useful as well as some PC usage. For everyone else: not at all. There is almost no content requiring this bandwidth.