Denon Audyssey settings with Def Tech bipolar speakers

[PENG]

That is a new UI for me. Is that supposed to be what audyssey is doing for room correction? Definitely agree with what Lovin just said... take that with a healthy dose of salt.

Doesn't look new to me, don't you have the same on your SR6012? The 6012 is newer than the X6300H.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Doesn't look new to me, don't you have the same on your SR6012? The 6012 is newer than the X6300H.

I don’t have that on my 6012. Maybe I haven’t pushed all the buttons in my remote yet? Lol

 

[ryanosaur]

Doesn't look new to me, don't you have the same on your SR6012? The 6012 is newer than the X6300H.

No, the SR6012 does not show that graph at all. In fact, I don't even get cool screenshots of what's on the tv when I enter avr setup. Little jealy.

 

[PENG]

I question why I would set my towers and center channel to small as that would send everything under 80hz to my sub and completely bypass the towers and center channel that have built in subwoofers. Am I correct in that statement or am I misunderstanding something in there? Just to note I do not use the LFE inputs on the towers or center channel as it was explained to me by Def Tech that they recommend using just speaker cable and letting the internal processing of the speakers determine what signals to send to what speakers within the towers.

If you set those very bass capable speakers to "large", the odds are high that they would play badly with your much more bass capable SVS subwoofers. Audyssey XT32 can do a decent job trying to integrate them to play nice, but chances are really good that it cannot do a good enough job.

I have been using Audyssey for 10 years, from XT to XT32 to XT32 Sub EQ HT to XT32 Sub EQ Ht + Editor App, and I plotted numerous in room response graphs of all sort and I know it is best to set all speakers to small and let the sub(s) set crossover frequencies to 80 Hz regardless. That is not to say some large speakers placed in certain ways in certain rooms may do better when set to large, or with crossovers set to 60 Hz or lower, but I really believe that would be the rare cases. My comments are of course base on "accuracy", i.e. flat response. On the subjective side, of course flat, neutral, and/or accurate may not sound good to some or even a lot of people.

If you are interested, I can post some of my graphs that compares using XO 80, 90, and 60. I may have some for "large" too.

 

[Hetfield]

I have a Denon X3400H and Def Tech speakers but not bipolar or integrated subs. I have SM 65 LCR and SM 55 surrounds plus an SVS PB1000. Audyssey did an amazing job setting everything up. Sounds absolutely incredible in my opinion. Audyssey tried to set the SM65s to large also because they are quite large and they put out a good amount of bass. I put them back down to small and set crossover at 80Hz. It's all good now. I upped the bass setting in the receiver from -7 to -5 and upped the volume knob on the PB1000 by just one click or notch, just one. It's just perfect now for me.

 

[PENG]

No, the SR6012 does not show that graph at all. In fact, I don't even get cool screenshots of what's on the tv when I enter avr setup. Little jealy.

So the SR6012's don't look like this? May be yours are actually newer.

 

[ryanosaur]

Bipole and Dipole speakers do seem to cause some havoc with room correction. My open back Planar Mids are very similar. Placement is key to maximizing how these interact with your room. In general, most of what I have seen indicates that placement further from the front wall, or more in to the room is better.
I cannot speak directly to the DT speaker placement because after two brief auditions with them, I knew they were not the right speaker for me and I never looked back.

What @Hetfield said above is pretty spot on. I have standmounts that Audyssey routinely sets to large, just because it detects a stronger bass response coming from them. I suspect anything outputting below 40Hz will trigger Aud to label the speaker as Large. Just because it does this does not make it correct.

Edit: I should rephrase... Just because Aud does this, does not mean it is the best option for you (your room or your rig).

 

[ryanosaur]

So the SR6012's don't look like this? May be yours are actually newer.


View attachment 31461

Whats the pathway to get to that screen on your menu? I haven't seen anything like that, but I also do not use Dynamic Volume.

 

[letrbuck2006]

Your guys' knowledge is clearly much higher than mine. Any of you in Minnesota and want to come over and help lol. So my though process now is that I should run Audyssey and after that is done switch my front LR and center to small. What do you guys recommend for a crossover for each speaker and then should I set my subwoofer to just LFE instead of LFE + MAIN. My original concern was that I want to use Dynamic EQ because I rarely listen at reference level but in order to change the EQ of each specific speaker, I have to turn off Audyssey which therefore turns off Dynamic EQ. Thanks for all the help. You guys clearly knowledge levels far exceeding my own.

Edit: Also would I be better off running the Audyssey with the towers and center channel subwoofer volume turned all the way down?

 

[letrbuck2006]

The way you get in to see those graphs is
Setup--speakers--Audyssey setup--check results--equalizers-- select either reference or flat

 

[ryanosaur]

So my though process now is that I should run Audyssey and after that is done switch my front LR and center to small.

Yes!

What do you guys recommend for a crossover for each speaker

Start with 1 octave above: so the F3 of your towers is tested out at 27Hz... lets call that 30Hz: Set those to 60. Set your Center to 80. Experiment over the next month. You can always change it.

and then should I set my subwoofer to just LFE instead of LFE + MAIN.

Just LFE. the other option is likely to muddy the waters a little more IIRC.

My original concern was that I want to use Dynamic EQ because I rarely listen at reference level but in order to change the EQ of each specific speaker, I have to turn off Audyssey which therefore turns off Dynamic EQ.

There should be little need to EQ each speaker unless you have some serious issues in your room. Most issues should hopefully be solved by experimenting with placement of your subs and speakers. Likewise, making certain you have adequate refinements in your room: carpeting or area rugs, curtains on windows, a bookshelf, etc.

Check out the Audyssey App and you can make more refined adjustments there than any option using the on-board Graphic EQ.

For the cost of a trip to the movies, I've gotten more out of that app then any $20 spent sitting in a crowded auditorium eating cruddy food and overpaying for a mediocre beer!

 

[PENG]

Whats the pathway to get to that screen on your menu? I haven't seen anything like that, but I also do not use Dynamic Volume.

Press set up Setup button on the remote and then follow the path:

Speakers/Audyssey Setup/Check Results/Equalizers/Reference (or Flat)

That's how it is for my Denon AVR-X4400H in the HT room, I can try it on the Marantz on my other room but I am quite sure it is exactly the same.

It has nothing to do with Dynamic volume, you don't have to select it to see the equalizers.

It is really not useful, and cannot be trusted too much, it is there just to give people some very rough ideas.

 

[letrbuck2006]

Yes!

Start with 1 octave above: so the F3 of your towers is tested out at 27Hz... lets call that 30Hz: Set those to 60. Set your Center to 80. Experiment over the next month. You can always change it.

Just LFE. the other option is likely to muddy the waters a little more IIRC.

There should be little need to EQ each speaker unless you have some serious issues in your room. Most issues should hopefully be solved by experimenting with placement of your subs and speakers. Likewise, making certain you have adequate refinements in your room: carpeting or area rugs, curtains on windows, a bookshelf, etc.

Check out the Audyssey App and you can make more refined adjustments there than any option using the on-board Graphic EQ.

For the cost of a trip to the movies, I've gotten more out of that app then any $20 spent sitting in a crowded auditorium eating cruddy food and overpaying for a mediocre beer!

Hahahhahah you're last comment is quite ironic because I just got back from seeing Rambo in theaters. I pay for AMC A-List (see up to 3 movies a week) and go to the theater all the time. Most of my reservations are for AMC's Dolby theaters that have Dolby Atmos and Dual Christie Projectors and transducers in the seats. That's going to be my next upgrade is theater style seating with transducers.

As far as the EQ on the speakers, that's part of what Audyssey does is run your speakers and EQ them to what they think is the best specs.

I'll post a couple pics of my setup and I have a couple questions I'd like to bounce off you.

 

[PENG]

Your guys' knowledge is clearly much higher than mine. Any of you in Minnesota and want to come over and help lol. So my though process now is that I should run Audyssey and after that is done switch my front LR and center to small. What do you guys recommend for a crossover for each speaker and then should I set my subwoofer to just LFE instead of LFE + MAIN. My original concern was that I want to use Dynamic EQ because I rarely listen at reference level but in order to change the EQ of each specific speaker, I have to turn off Audyssey which therefore turns off Dynamic EQ. Thanks for all the help. You guys clearly knowledge levels far exceeding my own.

Again, from my experience, you will likely get the best looking frequency response by:

- Run Audyssey for all 8 positions, follow their instructions to the letter.

On completion, go back and do the following:

- Set all speakers to small.
- Set crossovers for any bass capable (no much how capable) speakers to 80 Hz (in some cases, 90 or 100 may be better.
- Set smaller speakers that have F3 below say 65-70 Hz to 100 Hz or 120-150 Hz for small satellites.
- Set LPF for LFE to 120 Hz, or higher if you wish.

Some people like LFE+Main, but I am quite sure if those people would use REW to plot some FR to compare LFE to LFE+Main, and they prefer more accurate frequency response, they would go back to just LFE on a heart beat.

After that's done, listen to it for a few days, then you can experiment lower crossovers, LFE+Main etc., and see if you prefer the other settings, but that won't be for "accuracy".

Edit: Also would I be better off running the Audyssey with the towers and center channel subwoofer volume turned all the way down?

No, it will make no difference because as soon as you set running Audyssey, the volume will automatically be adjusted to produce about 71 to 75 dB of SPL at the main mic position. You cannot change that at all.

 

[letrbuck2006]

So I've got the system set up now as a 7.1.2 with the .2 being the topcaps on the towers. The speakers mounted to the beam I have set up as the Surround L and Surround R and the speakers on the back mantle set up as the Surround Back L and R. The Surround L and R are 1 foot behind the front chairs. The sub is in the back corner that you can't see in the pictures. The curtains are always pulled shut, I only have them open so it gives light for the pictures.

Do you think this is the ideal speaker setup (7.1.2 vs 5.1.4) in regards to where the speakers are currently placed and what changes would you make if this were your setup?

Side note, I could give 2 shits less about the setup for the back couch. It's clearly not ideal for that position.

 

[letrbuck2006]

Again, from my experience, you will likely get the best looking frequency response by:

- Run Audyssey for all 8 positions, follow their instructions to the letter.

On completion, go back and do the following:

- Set all speakers to small.
- Set crossovers for any bass capable (no much how capable) speakers to 80 Hz (in some cases, 90 or 100 may be better.
- Set smaller speakers that have F3 below say 65-70 Hz to 100 Hz or 120-150 Hz for small satellites.
- Set LPF for LFE to 120 Hz, or higher if you wish.

Some people like LFE+Main, but I am quite sure if those people would use REW to plot some FR to compare LFE to LFE+Main, and they prefer more accurate frequency response, they would go back to just LFE on a heart beat.

After that's done, listen to it for a few days, then you can experiment lower crossovers, LFE+Main etc., and see if you prefer the other settings, but that won't be for "accuracy".



No, it will make no difference because as soon as you set running Audyssey, the volume will automatically be adjusted to produce about 71 to 75 dB of SPL at the main mic position. You cannot change that at all.

I'm talking about the volume knob on the back of the towers and center channel that determine how loud to play the subwoofer, I'm assuming it works the same as a gain knob they just don't have it labeled accordingly.

 

[PENG]

I'm talking about the volume knob on the back of the towers and center channel that determine how loud to play the subwoofer, I'm assuming it works the same as a gain knob they just don't have it labeled accordingly.

Okay if you mean those so called bass control dials, I would just leave them where they are when you use it for two channel applications, and according to the instruction manual, 12 O'clock position seems like a good starting point.

 

[Pogre]

So the SR6012's don't look like this? May be yours are actually newer.


View attachment 31461

I've never seen that screen before either (SR6011).

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

So I've got the system set up now as a 7.1.2 with the .2 being the topcaps on the towers. The speakers mounted to the beam I have set up as the Surround L and Surround R and the speakers on the back mantle set up as the Surround Back L and R. The Surround L and R are 1 foot behind the front chairs. The sub is in the back corner that you can't see in the pictures. The curtains are always pulled shut, I only have them open so it gives light for the pictures.

Do you think this is the ideal speaker setup (7.1.2 vs 5.1.4) in regards to where the speakers are currently placed and what changes would you make if this were your setup?

Side note, I could give 2 shits less about the setup for the back couch. It's clearly not ideal for that position.

Well imo, 5.1.4 is definitely more immersive than 7.1.2. The other thing is that the surrounds should be about the same height as your mains. Or 1.25 to 1.55 X the tweeter height of the mains. The speakers you have mounted behind the front row could almost be rear tops! Lol
So for me, (assuming your maxed out on channels in the AVR)I would go with 5.1.4 by mountain all of your surround speakers on the ceiling at 45° fore and aft of the front row and adding a pair of surrounds in the regular surround positions to the sides. At just above ear level. Sell the upfiring modules.

I do apologize. I wrote this over about 3 hrs, one minute at a time. Not very cohesive...
Also, I’m up by Brainerd. Nice to see another nerd from home.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I've never seen that screen before either (SR6011).

Same here. I’m gonna go through the button sequence just so I can!!!!! Gotta put on my nerd cape first!