Denon all the way?

Guest · Nov 15, 2003

I am new to this forum and not too knowledgeable but I have been reading and studying.  I am about to buy all new components except for the B&W 802 speakers in order to set up a home theatre in our living room.  We live in an apartment in lower Manhattan.  I have narrowed my search down to Denon 5803 Receiver and DVD 5900 universal player.  We do not have a lot of room but I want to pick great one box components.  Is there an advanage in buying both of these components from Denon.  I know they have gotten some great reviews.  I understand the 5803 may be upgraded or even superseded in a matter of months.  Should I wait for this to happen?  I really want to get started within the next few months.  Any advice would be appreciated.  Thanks.

PaulF · Nov 15, 2003

Jrj,

The denon products you have chosen are both excellent performers. There is an advantage to buying two high end products from the same vendor. Currently a few vendors, including Denon, provide a proprietary digital link for high resolution audio between devices. The 5803/5900 combo will allow you to take advantage of this.

As for waiting, no doubt Denon will have something new by the CE show (CEDIA I think) in January. Typically vendors will announce new products a month or more in advance. You can check the feature list to see if any of the new features are of interest to you. If not, you will at least start finding 5803s at more discounted princing pending the release of the newer models. If so, then just wait for the new model. Either way you can be sure it will be a good performer.

Guest · Nov 15, 2003

Not to confuse things, but Marantz also makes great gear. I love both the Denon and Marantz products. Inaddition, I think that they are both owned by the same parent company.

Khellandros66 · Nov 15, 2003

I think you have a fantastic sytem in mind, I never cared for the yamaha + B&W combo, but a Denon + B&W is sweet.

I think you'll be set until 25.5 EXTES THX comes out

~Bob

littleb · Nov 16, 2003

Agreed.  Yamaha and B&W is bad.  Never, ever buy B&W speakers if you intend to use them with a Yamaha receiver.

Yamahaluver · Nov 17, 2003

I have a totally different take on this and as I know quite a few with B&W speakers it is my assertion that B&W and Yamaha compliment each other as the B&W speakers have inherently been of warmer design.

PaulF · Nov 17, 2003

Bob/Littleb,

Go easy on me. I have had a Yamaha/B&W combo for years and am very pleased with it. When you make claims like this I wish you would be more specific rather than just generically casting a wide net over any Yamaha/B&W combination. As there are hundreds of possible combinations, I'm sure you haven't heard them all?

By the way, the CE show in January is not CEDIA, can anyone remember what it's called?

VolksyGTI · Nov 18, 2003

CES ?....Consumer Electronics Show ?
I think.....

3db · Nov 18, 2003

I've recently heard that comment made about  bad Synergy between Yamaha and B&W speakers.  Bad synergy isn't the result of one component being inferior to the other but the interaction between 2 components who's sounds don't mesh.  But to say that Yamaha and B&W  do not match well is kind of broad brushed adding little or no value to the reader.  Thats saying that all B&W Speakers models and all Yamaha models sound identical regardless of price.

Guest · Nov 18, 2003

I want to thank everyone for his response.  The answers, of course, were conflicting but interesting.  My problem now is, should I wait for the Denon 5803 and 5900 to be updated before I purchase them or wait to see if the new Denon flagship receiver is announced in January.  However, as of now, I plan to go Denon all the way.  Thanks again.

Guest · Nov 19, 2003

I believe that the 5900 has the option to pass SCAD and DVD-A over and IEE1394 (kinda like firewire) connection but that the 5803 receiver does not come with that port standard....I think Denon shows it can be added.  If I'm correct on that assumption, then waiting for the 5804 might be more beneficial.

Mort

Guest · Nov 19, 2003

I'm looking at the same combo.  The 5803 has been out for a while so a 5804 may be in the works, but I haven't been able to find any info from any of my sources.  If a 5804 is indeed coming, they're keeping a tight lid on it.

As for the 5900, it was just released less than a month ago, so no worries for an upgrade there.  Not only does the 5900 do SACD and DVD-A, but it will scale DVDs to 720p or 1080i over its DVI output.  The proprietary Denon Link does send the digital signal for SACD or DVD-A directly to the 5803.  If you have the money, this is the universal DVD player to get.  I'm guessing some minor upgrades to the Bass Management might come out, but those can probably be done through a Firmware flash, which is done through a CD or DVD anyway.

Good luck and enjoy, whatever your final decision may be.

Khellandros66 · Nov 19, 2003

I've seen picture from foreign sites that have photos from HE2k3  and I must say if what I was seeing was coming out soon, then I'd wait a little while longer.

As for the Yamaha and B&W remark, I haven't heard them all, but for some reason Yamaha + Definitive, and Denon + B&W were the combos that sounded best.  This was on the RX-V3300 and BP2000 system, and a Denon avr4802R and CDM NT Series.  All with  Audioquest and/or Monster cable
Also both my fater and my best friend felt the same way.  Not to mention the dealer and his co worker.

~Bob

Guest · Nov 20, 2003

Yamaha RZ-Z9
The Denon 5803 is not even in the same league as the new Z-9.  For starters, the Z9 uses the latest, greatest, and best DAC available from Burr Brown.  The processing power is 4 to 5 times greater.  Add the full Faroudja processing with multiple resolution capability (ps- this alone is $9kretail), plus a full automatic ten band parametric eq to take care of room correction.  As far as the B&W / Yamaha combination not sound good that is simply ridiculous.

Guest · Nov 22, 2003

B&K and announced a drop of $1,000 in their 507 receiver which brings the price down to $3,000 which is much less in cost now than the Denon 5803.  The Denon is also older than the B&K.  Does anyone have experience with the B&K 507 vs. the Denon 5803.  I am still interested in the Denon 5900 universal player even if I buy the B&K.  Life does get complicated.  Any thoughts?

littleb · Nov 22, 2003

Guest : Yamaha RZ-Z9
The Denon 5803 is not even in the same league as the new Z-9. For starters, the Z9 uses the latest, greatest, and best DAC available from Burr Brown. The processing power is 4 to 5 times greater. Add the full Faroudja processing with multiple resolution capability (ps- this alone is $9kretail), plus a full automatic ten band parametric eq to take care of room correction. As far as the B&W / Yamaha combination not sound good that is simply ridiculous.

It may be ridiculous, but I would never again attempt to pair the two.  After my experience with B&W I would never consider any of their products in the future.  I just don't feel the big let down is worth the big price.  Call them no bang for the buck.  Just my opinion.  I own a Yamaha receiver.  Not bad, but not great.  I feel it is somewhat underpowered.  It wasn't a flagship, so I can't complain too much.

In general, I feel that much of today's mid to hifi equipment is good, but not great.  And some of this average stuff is ridiculously expensive.  Affordable quality is getting hard to find.

Yamahaluver · Nov 23, 2003

Exactly what aspect of B&W turned you off, I know that the speaker world is full of hype, more so than amp and other audio stuff and the margins are excessive, most of the times, under $1000 speakers outperform over $3000 speakers but human ego and vanity is something hard to tame.

Khellandros66 · Nov 23, 2003

I don't think either company is at fault, its just a matter of whether or not you like it very neutral, overly bright, or just between (me). I felt the neutrality of the RX-V1300 and the B&W's was too neutral, but the Denon + Definitive's were way too bright, even harsh. So I kind of went hmm, I like it in the middle so I went with a Yammy due to past experience with the company while working at Best Buy. I do prefer Yamaha's DSP algorythms over any other company, and the 3803 was out of my price range.

BTW> LittleB welcome to Audioholics.

~Bob

littleb · Nov 25, 2003

Yamahaluver : Exactly what aspect of B&W turned you off, I know that the speaker world is full of hype, more so than amp and other audio stuff and the margins are excessive, most of the times, under $1000 speakers outperform over $3000 speakers but human ego and vanity is something hard to tame.

yl,

that may be a little difficult to explain. When I demoed these speakers at a b&m I thought they sounded pretty good. But, the longer I listened to them something about the bass began to sound artificial, for lack of a better word. I took a run at them anyway. When I got them home and set them up with my Yamaha, I noticed I had to turn the volume up extremely high to get a medium amount of sound out of them. Even then they sounded thin and unnatural. To tell you the truth, I don't think the tweeters were emitting anything at all. So, thinking there must be something wrong with my receiver, I hooked them up to my son's system. They sounded just as bad. My thinking is that one probably needs a lot of wattage to push the B&W's. I could be wrong, but it sure seems that my receiver didn't have what these speakers demand. Man, was I disappointed.

During my speaker search I home demoed a pair of Pioneer sdf3k's, a pair of Yamaha ns555's, the B&W's and a pair of Axiom m22ti's. Performance wise, with my set up, I have to rate the axiom's best, followed by the pioneer's, the yamaha's and lastly the B&W's which I found to be unacceptable. Of these four pair of speakers only the Axiom's wowed me. The rest were average to mediocre in performance.  I ended up keeping the axiom's due to the excellent mids and excellent soundstage.  The Pioneer's mids are weak, gave them to my son.  Otherwise, I found them to be fine speaker.  The Yamaha's tweeters just about drilled a hole through my ear drums.  I can't tell you all how disappointed I was in the B&W's.  I looked at them as my dream speaker, but the dream became a nightmare.

Guest · Nov 25, 2003

I am only giving my opinion here but I have owned the B&W 802s for over two years and they are great.  As for volume, I rarely go passed the one-third mark on the Krell ten year old amp (100 8ohm).  I am about to purchase a new processor to take the place of my old EAD 7000 and I expect my sound to improve further.  I just do not understand how people can differ so much about the same speakers, etc.  But, as they say, to each his own and more power to him.

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