Denon 4400 setup. ...few questions

J

Jeff5347

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
11
#1
So I just got a 4400 and set it up. I skipped the Audessey setup until I have free time and a quiet house. My question so far is this. I have the receiver set to control volume thru arc. I have a Vizio e550 b2 and in the tv settings for volume I have volume off to allow the receiver to control volume. What is happening is the sound does not come out of the tv speakers ( good) and does thru the avr so good there. What I do see is when adjusting volume is dual volume panels. One from the average and also Vizio's. Is there a way thru avr settings or something so only the avr volume panels shows and not the TV's?

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everettT

everettT

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
941 9 11
#2
So I just got a 4400 and set it up. I skipped the Audessey setup until I have free time and a quiet house. My question so far is this. I have the receiver set to control volume thru arc. I have a Vizio e550 b2 and in the tv settings for volume I have volume off to allow the receiver to control volume. What is happening is the sound does not come out of the tv speakers ( good) and does thru the avr so good there. What I do see is when adjusting volume is dual volume panels. One from the average and also Vizio's. Is there a way thru avr settings or something so only the avr volume panels shows and not the TV's?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Ditch ARC, run everything thru the AVR and set the denon to standby pass thru so you can use the tv audio only when needed.
 
J

Jeff5347

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
11
#3
Awesome, thanks Everett!!! Another question. The avr I was using before this was a 2003 onkyo tx sr503 which had a switched ac outlet in the back of the avr. I see the Denon does not have this or a USB port in the back. I run a dual USB fan setup to help keep the avr cool. On the old one I just plugged into the switched ac but with the Denon I'm not sure how to run the fans since there is no ac or USB port. I know there's a port in front but don't want wires always sitting in front. Curious on how I can find a workaround to put the fans to use again.

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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,323 17 37
#4
One workaround would be a usb wall wart plugged into a smart power strip keyed to the avr....
 
J

Jeff5347

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
11
#5
Another thing I'm curious on. I set the receiver up and I threw in John wick. The receiver shows Atmos as a I 5.2.2. Bass on Monday is is good but what I'm noticing is on DirecTV the bass is really toned down. On my old avr with tv shows say like the gifted, Seals, and so on bass was evident and movie like. With the Denon not so much. I haven't played with upping each channels db but is that neccesary. I will be going thru the manual but just seeing if I'm doing anything wrong

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J

Jeff5347

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
11
#7
Many boost the sub level after running Audyssey, have you run that yet?
Yes I ran Audessey. This is gonna be a learning curve compared to my old avr. One thing I did was up all the input of what Audessey gave me. In the pic is what Audessey wanted. I upped all by 5 so they were still equal with what Denon gave just boosted. In the pic the subs were at -11.5 before I put them to -3


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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,323 17 37
#9
You could just turn the master volume up by 5, too :)

As far as D* goes, I find it has much to do with the individual channel as to bass boost inherent or not.
 
J

Jeff5347

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
11
#10
I re-ran Audessey and used 6 positions instead of 3. I also have the multiple app and used that Thia time to calibrate. Seems to be better. What I noticed is Audessey wanted to start rolling my subs off at 50 hz and have a -10db at 20 hz. I adjusted that a little and sounds much better in the bass area. One thing I noticed is it seems Audessey wants to run my surrounds a little hot. If I'm watching a movie the surrounds seem to always be in play and even the main dialog that is directly in front was finding it's way to the surrounds. What would be a better adjustement.... Turn the fronts up or turn the rear down
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,323 17 37
#11
I re-ran Audessey and used 6 positions instead of 3. I also have the multiple app and used that Thia time to calibrate. Seems to be better. What I noticed is Audessey wanted to start rolling my subs off at 50 hz and have a -10db at 20 hz. I adjusted that a little and sounds much better in the bass area. One thing I noticed is it seems Audessey wants to run my surrounds a little hot. If I'm watching a movie the surrounds seem to always be in play and even the main dialog that is directly in front was finding it's way to the surrounds. What would be a better adjustement.... Turn the fronts up or turn the rear down
Should use all 8 positions really. How are you placing the mic and what is the pattern of mic positions you're using? How do you know that Audyssey is rolling your subs off at 50hz? You have measurement gear? Generally Audyssey will try and flatten your bass response, but that may not be your preference; many do raise sub level post-Audyssey. As to surrounds, if they are a bit hot I'd lower the level a bit on those.
 
J

Jeff5347

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
11
#12
Should use all 8 positions really. How are you placing the mic and what is the pattern of mic positions you're using? How do you know that Audyssey is rolling your subs off at 50hz? You have measurement gear? Generally Audyssey will try and flatten your bass response, but that may not be your preference; many do raise sub level post-Audyssey. As to surrounds, if they are a bit hot I'd lower the level a bit on those.
Loving, the only reason I didn't do all 8 is my room is 13 by 17 and it has the front entrance and a opening to the hall. The way I have my system setup is the tv and ht is on the long wall. So this unfortunately makes having the sofa just close to the Bay window so I don't have a spot behind the sofa unless I just set the last 2 spots on the headrest area? With the multi EQ app it shows ( or at least I think it does) what the sub was doing. Here's a pic. I am wrong in this. This is my first go round so..lol
 

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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,323 17 37
#13
Is that what the response actually ends up being, or is that the eq curve being applied to the response? I don't have the MultEQ app, have bit older Denon so not sure how that works. Having a seat right up against a boundary is an issue acoustically, tho. Are you placing the mic at ear height otherwise? With a tripod or boom or ? What is the pattern you're using?
 
J

Jeff5347

Junior Audioholic
Ratings
11
#14
Is that what the response actually ends up being, or is that the eq curve being applied to the response? I don't have the MultEQ app, have bit older Denon so not sure how that works. Having a seat right up against a boundary is an issue acoustically, tho. Are you placing the mic at ear height otherwise? With a tripod or boom or ? What is the pattern you're using?
The pic below is of the sub before and after. Not sure where as it's not labeled. Seems there's a good amnt of tweaking you can do. I just played with the sub roll off and just one time.yea I know I should have the sofa away from the wall but if I even pulled it a foot out ( hmm maybe I should try it) the walking area would be super tight. Yes at ear height with the cardboard provided. My wife has a tripod but where she placed it unknown lol. A boom would probably be the best to get an exact placement. I'll have to check Amazon for one.
Placement starts at 1. Listening possible.
2. About 20 in. Left
3. About 20 in. Right of POS 1
4. About 20 in. Forward of POS 1.
5. About 20 in. Left of POS 4
6. About 20 in. Right of POS 4

I'm sure I could even get better results w 8 POS and I'll try pulling the sofa out a bit and see how that goes. One thing on the app is you can save each calibration and load a perferred Cal. Meaning I have the first cal. labeled as unedited and then when I adjusted the sub I labeled it " sub adjust". So I can pull the couch out, do another cal. and save that as say "couch 1ft cal" and you can upload any cal. you've done.
 

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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,323 17 37
#16
The pic below is of the sub before and after. Not sure where as it's not labeled. Seems there's a good amnt of tweaking you can do. I just played with the sub roll off and just one time.yea I know I should have the sofa away from the wall but if I even pulled it a foot out ( hmm maybe I should try it) the walking area would be super tight. Yes at ear height with the cardboard provided. My wife has a tripod but where she placed it unknown lol. A boom would probably be the best to get an exact placement. I'll have to check Amazon for one.
Placement starts at 1. Listening possible.
2. About 20 in. Left
3. About 20 in. Right of POS 1
4. About 20 in. Forward of POS 1.
5. About 20 in. Left of POS 4
6. About 20 in. Right of POS 4

I'm sure I could even get better results w 8 POS and I'll try pulling the sofa out a bit and see how that goes. One thing on the app is you can save each calibration and load a perferred Cal. Meaning I have the first cal. labeled as unedited and then when I adjusted the sub I labeled it " sub adjust". So I can pull the couch out, do another cal. and save that as say "couch 1ft cal" and you can upload any cal. you've done.
Sounds good. I do wish they had firmware updates to allow older Denons to work with the new app, would like to try it. I do remember some avrs came with little graphics for the Audyssey results but even Audyssey said about those not to read too much accuracy in the graphic. I got a free mic boom from Parts-Express with something I bought, much prefer using it over a tripod. Who cares about walking area? ;)
 
andyblackcat

andyblackcat

Audioholic General
Ratings
372 1 6
#18
The manual eq in the Denon isn't all that great.
Get some cheap matching 1/3 octave I heard many great Dolby stereo cinemas and awesome ones with THX that used 1/3 oct and would like to hear the past over again over the rubbish digital cinemas of today. Or get one of those miniDsp at cheap price they don't look worth it for the one for a few grand, daylight robber to just get each speaker sounding tonally consistent in frequency and in-phase.

Use a 1.5V battery to check if the speaker + and - are correct with a forward cone movement. Never take these grand worth for common as mud MDF for granted that they are perfect never know the speaker maybe different in frequency level.

Oh and please home uses stop using these mis-matched junk centre channels and please do not bother with soundbar those things belong on a landfill site. LCR should all be the same and positioned at the same height elevation. Not centre laying on the floor with LR many feet up. This is why home cinema is Rubbish flat screens even CRT have always presented this same issue and not improved.

Place the TV at certain height and the matched LCR above it within a 1/2" Get some PA compact speakers 12" 15" with horns these hi-fi ones are listening nightmare of junk! They stand far too tall and look all wrong if placed above the tv. Get some PA speakers they have the power dynamic guts and cost less than the hi-fi home cinema rubbish speakers.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,323 17 37
#19
Get some cheap matching 1/3 octave I heard many great Dolby stereo cinemas and awesome ones with THX that used 1/3 oct and would like to hear the past over again over the rubbish digital cinemas of today. Or get one of those miniDsp at cheap price they don't look worth it for the one for a few grand, daylight robber to just get each speaker sounding tonally consistent in frequency and in-phase.

Use a 1.5V battery to check if the speaker + and - are correct with a forward cone movement. Never take these grand worth for common as mud MDF for granted that they are perfect never know the speaker maybe different in frequency level.

Oh and please home uses stop using these mis-matched junk centre channels and please do not bother with soundbar those things belong on a landfill site. LCR should all be the same and positioned at the same height elevation. Not centre laying on the floor with LR many feet up. This is why home cinema is Rubbish flat screens even CRT have always presented this same issue and not improved.

Place the TV at certain height and the matched LCR above it within a 1/2" Get some PA compact speakers 12" 15" with horns these hi-fi ones are listening nightmare of junk! They stand far too tall and look all wrong if placed above the tv. Get some PA speakers they have the power dynamic guts and cost less than the hi-fi home cinema rubbish speakers.
Can't use a minidsp with the Denon without external amps as they no longer have processor loops in receivers; minidsp would good for the subs perhaps.
 
andyblackcat

andyblackcat

Audioholic General
Ratings
372 1 6
#20
Can't use a minidsp with the Denon without external amps as they no longer have processor loops in receivers; minidsp would good for the subs perhaps.
Golden rule of home cinema. Never ever buy one without RCA pre-outputs Ever!

All rubbish AVR's should all have with this atmos Liemax dts junk is D25 connectors no amplifiers should ever be built in as they are all junk! Everyone should buy amplifiers for outboard use like cinemas have been doing for decades. They they can make these AVR boxes slimmer with fitted rack ears for 19" pro rack mounting and every AVR should have manual control with these AUTO EQ things MANUAL EQ with at least 20 thousands bands per each channel with thin slice Q bandwidth to adjust the speaker to to speakers to be the same then set the crossover slopes in place to see if they line up.

I tell you lot, what. There was a whitepaper done few years ago showing many cinemas in LA and dubbing stages with some drastic EQ. Listen to Real Life its best sound around. Or switch back to MONO lot easier to EQ than 30 or 100 more speakers Real Life doesn't need EQing.
 

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