Denon 3806 surround icons

[captainiom]

I imported a 3806 from the States at Xmas because we do not have any Denon authorised dealers on the Isle of Man. It has taken a fair while to set up, which I had anticipated having downloaded the manual before buying, but I would comment that I found the Audyssey odyssey quite entertaining and easy to use.
The HDMI connections were weird and using component in plus audio from my Humax HD satellite receiver outputting via HDMI to a Tchibo HD TV was unsatisfactory. I had to use HDMI in to get HDMI out.

My problem, which I hope somebody could help with, is that whatever source I use, DVD, TV HD, sat HD, normal TV etc etc I have never had one of the icons which indicate the type of digital signal being received, light up.
I am confused because I have used several standard DVD's such as The Lion King, Band of Brothers, the Monster House etc which all say they are Dolby 5:1 but no indication on the row of icons. The 'dig' led is on and setting the surround say to Dolby cinema PL11x seems to give the right sort of signals to the speakers but I get a better sound if I simply override this and use the 7 channel option. I even went out and bought a new DVD, a Toshiba SD 360E because it had HDMI.
I now have HDMI1 in from the Humax HD sat, HDMI2 from the Toshiba DVD and HDMIout to the HD TV.

Any offers as to where I am going wrong with the audio setup please?

 

[avliner]

Hi captain,

welcome to the forum!

I do have a 3806 as well and I'm enjoying it very much. When you get used to the "denon logic" it'll be a breeze. As you might have found, their manual really sucks...

Regarding to the HDMI issue, it sounds to me that the problem lies in the setup; i.e., you have to enable the upconvertion (4. Video Setup, than press 3. Video Convert; afterwards press on to enable the function).

Second issue sound like the AUTO function is not enabled ( go to the setup menu 5. Advanced Palyback, than press 3. Auto surround mode to enable the function).

Your last issue sounds like you're not enabling the multi-channel option (DD or DTS) AND / OR the AVR. As you might now, you gotta do that at your player first ( and then on AVR), in order to get multi-channel encoded signals.

I'll assume you're not having any HDMI issues, they way it's now right (I mean, you're normally getting audio & video)?

If you're getting the DPLIIX on display, I'll assume that you have at least a 6.1 speaker system (or 7.1), otherwise you wouldn't get that flag to light up.

Please do a cross-check on the above and return to us for any further info.
I'm sure you're going to have tons of funs with the 3806!

Cheers / Avliner.

 

[captainiom]

Thanks avliner for the heads up.

I confirm first that the upconvert was on for all sources and that auto surround mode was on.

However, I had misinterpreted the requirement for PCM. It was my belief that as PCM was developed originally by Denon that that would be the format required by the AVR for further processing but it's not . What is required is defined in the DVD Toshiba as 'raw'. The setting I had done was 'PCM'. When changed to raw the channels on the left of the display changed from 2 to 5 and the Dolby Digital icon came on. It then dawned on me that perhaps the row of icons I was talking about - the ones stretching right across the panel below the display and above the drop down flap - are just that i.e. pictures of the various trade marks pertinent to codecs or protocols and that they are not meant to light up! Is that correct? If so I have been misled by other Denon products where these did light up according to what the input source was.

I then moved on to the HD sat receiver and here still have a problem. There is no setting in the Humax menu equivalent to the DVD's choice of PCM or raw so while the 3806 recognises the audio from the HDMI input is 'dig' it has also PCM lit and only two channels show even though I know the output is Dolby digital because it shows on the monitor. Is there any way of persuading the 3806 to accept and process the PCM signal? There is also a colossal difference in volume. The VDP with the sat receiver has to be set many decibels above any other source and if you are not careful you can get blasted by changing sources without resetting the vol level. Perhaps it should not be on the VDP inputs? If not then what?

stuart mckenzie

 

[Duffinator]

There is also a colossal difference in volume. The VDP with the sat receiver has to be set many decibels above any other source and if you are not careful you can get blasted by changing sources without resetting the vol level. Perhaps it should not be on the VDP inputs? If not then what?

stuart mckenzie

My 3805 has a Sat input. If the 3806 has that input use it.

 

[captainiom]

Thanks for that Duffinator. There is no input defined as 'SAT' but I assume the nearest is DBS (digital broadcast satellite) so I have reassigned the HDMI input to DBS and have managed to tune the volumes to be more of a match with the other sources but the fundamental problem of only having a PCM signal remains so somehow I have to set the Denon to do some processing of that PCM signal.

 

[MDS]

It's possible that the sat receiver doesn't allow you to output Dolby Digtal the way most cable boxes do.

To get 5.1 surround from a 2 channel PCM signal, you have to use one of the matrix decoders like ProLogic II. The 3806, being one of Denon's higher end models, may have menu settings to allow you to choose the default decoder for each type of input signal. If so, set 2 channel PCM to ProLogic II and it will always switch to that decoder when it sees PCM. Most receivers will also remember your last decoder setting (unless overridden by the menu settings) so once you engage PLII once, it should stay that way.

 

[Duffinator]

Thanks for that Duffinator. There is no input defined as 'SAT' but I assume the nearest is DBS (digital broadcast satellite) so I have reassigned the HDMI input to DBS and have managed to tune the volumes to be more of a match with the other sources but the fundamental problem of only having a PCM signal remains so somehow I have to set the Denon to do some processing of that PCM signal.

Yep that is the one. My bet is the output from your cable box is not set properly. If the output from your sat box is set to DD 5.1 and it's getting to the receiver you should be able to select DD from the remote and you should hear 5.1 sound. It should literally be that easy. If not go back to the output from the sat box and double check it..

 

[Nick250]

Yep that is the one. My bet is the output from your cable box is not set properly. If the output from your sat box is set to DD 5.1 and it's getting to the receiver you should be able to select DD from the remote and you should hear 5.1 sound. It should literally be that easy. If not go back to the output from the sat box and double check it..

Best bet I think is to set the receiver to "auto", then you for sure what is coming in.

Nick

 

[captainiom]

The sat box has an Spdif out and I have an optical cable on order. Pehaps that will pass the DD properly?

 

[avliner]

Hi captain,

if your set top box doesn't have HDMI connection, than the SPDIF is the missing link as to get multi-channel signal though.

Keep us posted, please.

Cheers / Avliner.

 

[captainiom]

No Avliner, it does have HDMI, but it looks as though the DD is not being passed through and there is no setup on the sat menu to adjust this. Thus I ordered a Toslink optical cable as a test to see if I connect that as well as the HDMI and point the DBS input to the opt then that might work.

I confirm that you can get a sort of 5:1 MDS if you use matrix on the virtual settings but it is a poor relation of true DD.

I also confirm Nick that input is set to auto and has been throughout the setup.

On a general front I must say that the overall sound picture of the Denon is best described as a little 'light'. I have operated with Quad amplifiers for years and, using the same main speakers for the AVR, there is much less bass. I have had to tweak the tone quite a bit to match the type of sound I used to obtain from the Quad. Of course Quad were giving us 100w 20-20000hz 15 years ago so they have had plenty of practice. What is very noticeable with the multiple Denon amplifiers is their consistency between channels and absolute absence of noise or hiss even with vol turned right up and no input.

 

[avliner]

Well captain,

if it does have HDMI and it's not passing audio signals thru, it means that the cable box has HDMI version 1.0 - which only passes VIDEO; therefore, an optical cable will be necessary.
In other hand, you said that it somehow does pass a kind of AUDIO signal, right? Kinda weird, isn't??

Perhaps you're not having full HD signal from cable box and if that applies, you won't get multi-channel audio thru optical cable either...

Let's keep walking though.

Cheers / Avliner.

 

[captainiom]

I suppose it is possible that it is only HDMI 1.0 but unlikely as the Humax box was only released late in 2006. However, as it is not passing the DD properly as far as I can see the next step is definitely to see if the optical does.

You did not confirm that my guess re the icons was right Avliner and as you actually have a 3806 you will be able to confirm or deny

 

[avliner]

Oh, I forgot that, sorry...
Yeah, you're right on your suspects. Those printed icons will not light up.

Back to the HDMI issue, version 1.0 DOES NOT pass audio at all; therefore I'd like you to re-confirm whether or not you're getting sound over HDMI.
If you do, then you got a 1.1 version on DVD player (3806 it is).

If you're getting sound on DVD and not from the cable box, then the issue lies on the cable box itself (1.0 version, so you'll need an optical cable for the audio, though).

Cheers / Avliner.

 

[captainiom]

Well that puts the icons to bed!

I confirm I am getting sound over the HDMI - its just not in DD; it is PCM. Thus you can only use a virtual processor such as matrix. I have been studying the specs for the Humax HDCI 2000 a bit more carefully and they are silent re the HDMI spec, but I note hopefully that the SPDIF entry specifically says it allows DD to be processed. Of course you and I know that it should also really be avaiable over HDMI. I don't care of course if I actually get it.
I am pleasantly surprised that the video in, via HDMI from DBS, is properly switched to the HDTV, via HDMI out.
I appreciate that the USA has more HD content available over TV and sat than we have here. If you are not prepared to pay the exorbitant charges from SKY you are limited to BBC1 HD preview and EuroHD1/5 from Belgium. BBC is MPEG2 while Euro is MPEG4 I think - the Humax does both.

 

[captainiom]

Final chapter

Well I am pleased to report that all has been resolved. If you acquire an Humax HD sat receiver then it probably will not pass the Dolby through its HDMI lead but will pass the video properly. Once my supplier got in some high end Toslink cables and I assigned audio input to one and HDMI for the video, then HD plus dolby came from the Humax via the Denon and on to the ten speakers and HDTV. Bingo.

I also use a Toslink for the CD which happens to be of Denon make but without a Denon link and the other HDMI input is from the Toshiba DVD. The HDMI out is obviously to the TV.

My only problem with the setting up is that I tripped over the fine black Denon mic cable when moving it to position 4 and it snapped. Oh dear. I was unable to mend it by splicing but fortunately I was able to use one of my computer mics which seemed to do the job just as well and Audyssey gave substantially better results than default settings.

Thanks for all the help and I now look forward to enjoying the various inputs for a long time to come. I hope I get as much use out of this kit as I have out of my Quad equipment which has been relegated to my home office.

stuart mckenzie