Denon 3700 and Goldenear Triton 3's, should I amp?

[lovinthehd]

Awesome guys, thanks for all your help there. I'll give that a good mental chew and see where I go in the future. I'll also look into setting the volume with the reference range you mentioned above.

Just numbers arranged differently, but many of us use that for comparisons....

 

[PENG]

I'll also look into setting the volume with the reference range you mentioned above.

It makes no difference at all, many of us prefer the relative scale just so it is easier to relate to "reference level". As Audyssey explained:

Dynamic EQ and Reference Level – Ask Audyssey (zendesk.com)

Audyssey LabsOctober 29, 2009 13:37
Movies are mixed in rooms calibrated for film reference. To achieve the same reference level in a home theater system each speaker level must be adjusted so that –30 dBFS band-limited (500 Hz – 2000 Hz) pink noise produces 75 dB sound pressure level at the listening position. A home theater system automatically calibrated by Audyssey MultEQ will play at reference level when the master volume control is set to the 0 dB position. At that level you can hear the mix at the same level the mixers heard it.

 

[LtDanNewLegs]

It makes no difference at all, many of us prefer the relative scale just so it is easier to relate to "reference level". As Audyssey explained:

Dynamic EQ and Reference Level – Ask Audyssey (zendesk.com)

Audyssey LabsOctober 29, 2009 13:37
Movies are mixed in rooms calibrated for film reference. To achieve the same reference level in a home theater system each speaker level must be adjusted so that –30 dBFS band-limited (500 Hz – 2000 Hz) pink noise produces 75 dB sound pressure level at the listening position. A home theater system automatically calibrated by Audyssey MultEQ will play at reference level when the master volume control is set to the 0 dB position. At that level you can hear the mix at the same level the mixers heard it.

So should i have the Audyssy EQ on? I leave it off as it suggests it raises the volume in quiet scenes, and lowers louder ones, sounding like a rudimentary compression, which I thought didn't sound like a good idea.

I DID have Audyssey calibrate the sound though.

 

[lovinthehd]

Audyssey DynamicEQ is a loudness contour that boosts low and higher frequencies we hear differently at lower volume levels (similar to the Fletcher Munson curves). There's an associated RLO (Reference Level Offset) to adjust it for other than movies (at the default setting of 0). Some use it, some don't. I use it at lower volumes, but tend to turn it off at high volume (it rolls off as you approach reference level and is neutral at reference level). The Dynamic Volume is the compression routine, this I always turn off (might be helpful if you have neighbors/housemates in late night watching, tho).

ps This might help https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level

 

[Cos]

I am sure if you have read some reviews with measurements. Here is one:

Test Report: GoldenEar Technology Triton Three Speakers Page 3 | Sound & Vision (soundandvision.com)

"Minimum impedance is 3.4 ohms at 128 Hz with a phase angle of -31°; and the impedance runs below 5 ohms between 220 and 930 Hz. Impedance rises rapidly below 100 Hz as the signal is handed off to the internal amplifier. Still, using at least a decent midpriced receiver or amplifier rated into 4 ohms would be a good idea. Sensitivity (average of quasi-anechoic measurement from 300 Hz to 10 kHz at 1 meter at 0° with a 2.83 volts RMS signal) is 85.9 dB."

My recommendation of a 300 W power amp is based on:

- You seem to listen to relatively loud level as you do crank the volume to -10 that most of us on AH probably don't. Can you check the level trim settings for the LCR channels and report back just in case?

- From the screen shot, it shows the 100.5 dB is based on 2 speakers, but you also did not assume any room gain so I would call it even, that it would be 100.5 dB based on just 1 speaker per THX standard. The sensitivity you entered, 87 dB was still optimistic (as @Pogre, alluded to earlier on this point), as you can it was only 85.9 dB as measured.

So it is about the combination of relatively low impedance, not so benign phase angle characteristics, low ( relatively speaking) sensitivity, and most importantly the SPL you desired that appeared to be just a few dB below reference level.

A 300 W power amp such as the Anthem MCA225, Monolith 200W X3, or the Hypex NC502MP based Class D amp such as the NC502 and the Purifi 1ET400A should be good.

Note: @Cos knows those speakers well, he may think a good AVR can do the trick, but as far as I know he did use power amps to drive them.

Those 300 W rated power amps won't do much in terms of improve sound quality for you at listening levels below Volume -15 to -20 for you, but it might if you crank it to above -15 and the contents happen to have much higher than average dynamic. It also might succeed in convincing you brain/ears even if no actual difference are made.

Dynamic range of music various a lot depending on the genres, and the recording/mastering quality. Here's a good site for reference:

Album list - Dynamic Range Database (loudness-war.info)

By the way, Soundstagenetwork.com also reviewed a Trinton but its the newer version the 3+, the impedance curve also shows its more like a 5 Ohm nominal speaker:

SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NRC Measurements: GoldenEar Technology Triton Three+ Loudspeakers

View attachment 48426

Great information, I had the 1s, did not know the sensitivity is so low. I did run my T1s through my integra avr 100w/channel when I sent my 8802 to be upgraded to 8802A and really didn't notice a decrease in SQ, but I don't play it super loud. The T3 already has integrated 800w Digital Amps driving the bass, so I am not technical to know if that helps reduce the power requirement.

 

[Pogre]

it raises the volume in quiet scenes, and lowers louder ones, sounding like a rudimentary compression, which I thought didn't sound like a good idea.

What you describe here sounds more like Dynamic Volume, not Dynamic EQ.

 

[PENG]

The T3 already has integrated 800w Digital Amps driving the bass, so I am not technical to know if that helps reduce the power requirement.

It sure does help in theory, but I think that 800W number is exaggerated and is for short duration peaks only. It is meant for the "subwoofer" so how much it helps would depend on the contents too.

According to the Triton three manual:

Driver Complement: One 5" x 9" long-throw quadratic subwoofers coupled to
Two 6.75" x 8" quadratic planar infrasonic radiators
One 4.5" high-definition cast-basket mid/bass drivers
One HVFR™ High-Velocity Folded Ribbon tweeter

Rec. Amplification: 20 – 400 Watt/channel
Built-In Subwoofer
Power Amplifier: 800 Watt ForceField subwoofer digital/DSP amplifier

I am actually quite surprise by S&V's comments that mentioned a 4 Ohm rated rated amp would be a good idea, but then it does seem consistent with Triton's recommended 20 - 400 Watt/channel. So I am very interested in that 4.5" mid/bass driver, that seems to be very capable of sucking up lots of juice.

May be S&V was just being too cautious, and you may be right that the AVR-X3700H doesn't need help from an external amp. On the other hand, the OP did seem to have to set the volume to -10. I have never listened to music or movie at volume -10, -15 is just about the maximum I can tolerate. For 4 Ohm speakers, -10 would be a heavy enough load for the AVR-X3700H to clip during peaks.

 

[LtDanNewLegs]

What you describe here sounds more like Dynamic Volume, not Dynamic EQ.

Maybe I read that wrong, but that's what I THOUGHT it said, and why I didn't choose it as an option. If you're saying it's an improvement, then I'll give it a shot.

 

[lovinthehd]

No, we're saying we don't use DynamicVolume but we do find DynamicEQ useful. Go to your Audyssey menu choices and confirm, tho.

 

[Pogre]

Right. Dynamic volume OFF, Dynamic EQ ON. Also make sure Audyssey LFC is OFF as well.

 

[LtDanNewLegs]

Right. Dynamic volume OFF, Dynamic EQ ON. Also make sure Audyssey LFC is OFF as well.

Ah, okay, seems like we're all on the same page then.

 

[cpp]

I use a Denon 4311ci to drive Tritons 2+ and even when I added my ATI 2002 it really didn't make any audible difference at the levels I listen and watch TV at. So the ATI came off and moved to another system.

 

[LtDanNewLegs]

I use a Denon 4311ci to drive Tritons 2+ and even when I added my ATI 2002 it really didn't make any audible difference at the levels I listen and watch TV at. So the ATI came off and moved to another system.

Yeah, I've been enjoying it quite a bit the last few days now that I have my EDID video issue sorted, so I'll likely leave it as is. Thanks all.

Btw, I did change my volume to reference levels and I'm -15 when I really wanna hear it.

 

[Pogre]

Yeah, I've been enjoying it quite a bit the last few days now that I have my EDID video issue sorted, so I'll likely leave it as is. Thanks all.

Btw, I did change my volume to reference levels and I'm -15 when I really wanna hear it.

That's my usual limit, but every once in a while I'll bump it up to -5.

 

[Epsonfan]

I tried the XL center from GE with the GE Triton3s what a wonderful center the XL is