Democrat Superdelegate Dilemma

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rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
I hold both American and European citizenship and my wife is Russian so we have lots of doors open to us. I've moved between Europe and the US and each has it's likes and dislikes. After spending several years back in the US, it might be time to head to Europe again. Then after a few years there, we'll head back to the US. The US is on a dangerous road right now; Europe has a long history of not getting along; Russia takes a step forward and two back. As a human being, I'm never totally happy with anything, but it's nice to change the scenery every so often.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
I'll meet you in Italy when this is done - then we'll have no further need to debate American politics! :D My wife and I have already packed our things.
Once you get a taste of real socialism, political instability, economic instability, and institutional corruption performed by professional criminals, you will be glad you kept your American credentials.
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
Things are a bit dicey in Russia right now. Putin is a dangerous man.
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
I hold both American and European citizenship and my wife is Russian so we have lots of doors open to us. I've moved between Europe and the US and each has it's likes and dislikes. After spending several years back in the US, it might be time to head to Europe again. Then after a few years there, we'll head back to the US. The US is on a dangerous road right now; Europe has a long history of not getting along; Russia takes a step forward and two back. As a human being, I'm never totally happy with anything, but it's nice to change the scenery every so often.
Translation: Tired of getting smacked in the face on one side, I can turn around and get it on the other cheek. :D I have to agree rnatalli - the grass is always better over "yonder", until you get there and realize every place has it's own set of problems. Hell, I've got a friend who is married to an Italian national (speaking of Italy), and she has filled me in on the alarming trend happening in that country even. As much as I would like to move there, settle down in the hills and grow olives for a living, it's been enough to make me think.

As cbraver said - I do, fiercely love my country, and even though I talk a lot of crap I really have no intentions of leaving it. If that means I have to go down with the ship, then so be it, but I won't stop voting for what I feel are the right things, even if the entire country falls into disagreement, and I'll gladly slip beneath the waves holding my American flag high. I like to feel that there is still hope for us yet, but we have to get our collective heads out of our rear ends and see what is truly happening here.

This is nothing new either - lately I've been reading an awful lot on American Revolutionary era politics, and it's quite revealing the similarities and dynamics between political rivals, party bickering (of course then, it was the Federalists vs. Republicans, but same concept either way), and character assasinations. Yep, a good book to read (if anyone is interested) is the 'Founding Brothers' by Joseph J. Ellis - it kind of made me feel a bit better about the state of current politics, and made me realize that even the great Founding figures of our nation weren't immune to the very kinds of behavior we see so rampant today.

The biggest difference I see however, is that the global situation has changed, and we are facing newer and more sinister threats from overseas that we couldnt' have fathomed back then - so my point is that after 200 plus years of existence, it is time to pull ourselves together once and for all and become the nation we set out to be. I don't see it happening, and this internal political warfare will set the stage for our downfall with a world full of evil closing in on every border. :(
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
I am no real Newt Gingrich fan (although I think he's a fantastic writer), but he's got a pretty interesting take in this WSJ article as to how to help solve the dems problem:

Let's Revote in Michigan and Florida
By NEWT GINGRICH
February 15, 2008; Page A15

Democrats are headed for a trainwreck in campaign '08 that threatens to produce a tainted Democratic presidential nominee and, worse, a divisive and delegitimized presidential contest.

Recall that when Michigan and Florida moved up their primaries in defiance of Democratic Party rules earlier this year, the party bosses decided to punish them by unseating their delegates. The Florida and Michigan primaries were turned into beauty contests.

At the time, it seemed like a good move since everyone assumed that the Michigan and Florida delegates wouldn't really matter in the nomination battle. The conventional wisdom was that one Democratic candidate would emerge early in the contest, and arrive at the convention with a comfortable margin of delegates for the nomination.

But the one constant in campaign '08 so far is that the conventional wisdom is wrong. Instead of a sprint, the Democratic race has turned into a slog. And it's now looking more and more likely that the Democratic presidential fight will not produce a clear and decisive winner.

So here's the run-away train careening toward the Democratic National Convention in Denver in August: If the delegate count of both campaigns is still close by the time of the convention, Florida and Michigan's combined 366 delegates will suddenly become very relevant. Instead of uniting behind a nominee, the party will be at war with itself over whether to seat the Michigan and Florida delegates. And Democrats know from hard experience that chaotic, contentious conventions and the nominees they produce (remember Chicago in 1968? San Francisco in 1972?) do not bode well for success in November.

One of the great ironies of this election season is that the very mechanism created by Democrats to avoid contentious conventions like those in Chicago and San Francisco promises to create further chaos in Denver this year.

Superdelegates are really "politician delegates." Superdelegates are technically uncommitted party insiders who can vote for whomever they choose. They were created by the party that prides itself on supposedly representing the common man to be the palace guards of the Democratic establishment. Bill Clinton is a superdelegate, as is Al Gore. They are Democratic Party insiders whose purpose is to put down insurgent campaigns and protect the interests of Democratic politics as usual.

The closeness of the delegate count has set off a furious race between Sens. Clinton and Obama for the superdelegates. But any attempt by either campaign to win with these party insiders what they couldn't win with the voting public would destroy not only the prospects of the "victorious" candidate, but the prospects of the Democratic Party itself.

So the Democrats are caught in a double-bind: Disenfranchising the voters in Michigan and Florida while allowing party insiders to pick the party's nominee has all the makings of a Democratic civil war.

You might think that as a Republican I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do. All of us do. A tainted or "stolen" Democratic nomination has the potential to delegitimize the election itself and its outcome. And tainted victories produce hobbled administrations. Much as I might have agreed with the outcome of the 2000 general election, the rancor and vitriol it produced created divisions among Americans where none naturally existed before, irreparably damaging the Bush administration.

Contrary to the political consultants' handiwork and the mainstream media's mythmaking, America is not a nation fundamentally divided between red and blue. We are surprisingly united on the core values that make us Americans and the practical solutions to the challenges we face. We need an election process with the integrity to produce a nominee who can lead this natural majority.

The question is: How?

Giving the Michigan and Florida delegates to Sen. Clinton -- particularly in light of reports that she bent the Democratic Party rules against campaigning in both states -- is a recipe for even more chaos.

On the other hand, leaving the Florida and Michigan delegates unseated runs the risk for the Democrats of alienating two big states they want and need to win in November.

The answer, for the integrity of the process, is a do-over: Hold the Michigan and Florida Democratic primaries again.

The voters -- not the party insiders -- have the moral authority to choose the nominee. Democratic voters in Michigan and Florida should get that chance. Then in November, we'll have a fair fight. And I'll be honest -- it may not help the chances for a Republican victory in the fall. But it will help something even more important: the integrity of our political process.

Mr. Gingrich, former speaker of the House, is the author of "Real Change: From the World that Fails to the World that Works" (Regnery, 2008).
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Things are a bit dicey in Russia right now. Putin is a dangerous man.
Don't think my wife or I would argue that. However, dicey means there's a lot of money to be made in Russia these days :)
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Once you get a taste of real socialism, political instability, economic instability, and institutional corruption performed by professional criminals, you will be glad you kept your American credentials.
I always am glad. But I'm also glad I keep my European credentials :D
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
Seriously though, I don't think there's a less politically stable place (or a more politically corrupt place) in most of Europe right now than Italy.
Abe, haven't you heard of New Jersey?;)
Oh, I just noticed you said, "In most of Europe"
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
My EU passport is ready!
I seriously considered becoming a Canadian citizen when Dubya was reelected. I don't care which Democrat wins, but I don't think we can take another four years of a Republican president.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
I seriously considered becoming a Canadian citizen when Dubya was reelected. I don't care which Democrat wins, but I don't think we can take another four years of a Republican president.
Canada's got immigration laws too, you foreigner. Step to the back of the line.:D
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
Abe, haven't you heard of New Jersey?;)
Oh, I just noticed you said, "In most of Europe"
Rick- I spent a good portion of my growing up years in NJ (Short Hills), I know all about the shady politics :).
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
I seriously considered becoming a Canadian citizen when Dubya was reelected. I don't care which Democrat wins, but I don't think we can take another four years of a Republican president.
I would add a personal caveat to that- I don't think we can take 4 years of a republican president and a republican congress. For that matter, I don't think a democratic president with the dem congress will be any better. Some of the best legislation in recent history has come when we had a split presidency and congress. FDR did his most good for the country when congress was fighting against him tooth and nail, even though many of them were technically democrats. JFK was able to get his tax cuts through with the help of the republicans in congress (even though congress was strongly democrats in those days). Nixon and Reagan negotiated global detente with a democratic congress. Clinton passed meaningful welfare reform with a republican congress.

I think the most good will be done for the country if we can again end up wtih some combination of split executive and legislative branch. I think even a combo of Dem president, Dem House, and Republican Senate would work well.
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
I think the most good will be done for the country if we can again end up wtih some combination of split executive and legislative branch. I think even a combo of Dem president, Dem House, and Republican Senate would work well.
I have never really thought about it in those terms, but I think you are onto something here. Either side can go to extremes, but checks and balances keep things rational.
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
That is the inherent design of our political system to begin with Joe - checks and balances. The forefathers were wise beyond their time and their comprehension of how a country should be put together. What throws us off course is when too many people align themselves one way or another without regard to the integration of ideas from both sides of the party fence, stop paying attention to the issues and vote for "anything democratic" or "anything Republican". It does us no good at all to play party favorites, as voters.
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Democracy sucks. Republic sucks. Communism sucks. Socialism sucks. Militarism sucks. Despotism sucks. Etc...

We're all doomed.
 
C

chadnliz

Senior Audioholic
The worst thing that could happen is to put a Dem in the office, I will be happy to tkae another 4 yrs of our current President over either of the two choise the left has thrown at America, but Big Mac should be a good option.
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
Democracy sucks. Republic sucks. Communism sucks. Socialism sucks. Militarism sucks. Despotism sucks. Etc...

We're all doomed.
Damn... I guess there's no hope then huh? Anybody got a rope? :D
 

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