Dedicated Line

[t3031999]

I have 2 20 amp lines dedicated to my HT room. I don't ever expect to use even one of them to their full potential. I did it to separate the audio equipment from flourescent lights, dimmer switches, and a sump pump that were currently on the same circuit. This made my system sound cleaner with higher dynamic peaks. And I figured that while I was installing the one, two wouldn't hurt.

 

[Bryce_H]

I ran dedicated lines as well. Mostly b/c I could. I built my HT from scratch and figured I had the oppertunity. I have a dedicated 20a in my closet now with another 20a line run, but not currently used. All my HT lights are on dedicated 15a circuit, as are all my HT (within the room) outlet (plus a couple in the wetbar. It is one of those if you have the oppertunity - why not. The cable and circuit price difference is practically nil. But the hassle of trying to change it out later is a royal pain.

As we all know - more power (or access to power)

 

[ht_addict]

Not really, but I expect to see that kind of peak current if I turn the volume right up to say +5 or higher when playing certain muli-channel stuff. I have no need to do such thing but others may.

I agree with mtry that large caps should help, but he surely knows that if the caps are helping, they are also discharging. A 15 or 20A dedicated line is the way to go for peace of mind

True, but they aren't always completely discharging to the point that the draw from the wall socket causing a strain on the dynamics. If it was you would be blowing the breaker. Even most reviewers of receivers will say that your using maybe 1-2 watts pre channel at any given time.

 

[mulester7]

Even most reviewers of receivers will say that your using maybe 1-2 watts pre channel at any given time.

.....ok, what about when warning lamps are flickering on almost ALL of your 12 channels of main's regiment and Earthquake 5 amps?....would the reviewers of receivers still say 1 or 2 watts times 17?....Ht_Addict, do you not count powered-sub draw in the overall electrical picture?.....your turn.....

 

[mulester7]

.....ok, what about when warning lamps are flickering on almost ALL of your 12 channels of main's regiment and Earthquake 5 amps

.....yeah, I had to wear a football helment for that one......

 

[PENG]

True, but they aren't always completely discharging to the point that the draw from the wall socket causing a strain on the dynamics. If it was you would be blowing the breaker. Even most reviewers of receivers will say that your using maybe 1-2 watts pre channel at any given time.

I don't disagree but again, I was talking about peaks, not continuous R.M.S values. BTW, HT, owner of a 50 lbs plus monster Denon, current hungry Paradigms, and using 10 ga wires, bi-amp etc., you are not setting a good example here. You don't need mule's Earthquake, given the right conditions/source, your big Denon and Digms can, and will, draw more than 15A of transient currents. You probably have a dedicated 15A outlet too. We cannot change the fact that a 14 ga. 120V copper wires will suffer more voltage drop than 12 and 10 ga. ones. The longer the feed, the higher the volt drop.

 

[Johnd]

Thanks, but I'm not sure I know what you mean by 'dedicated ground' for each. I understand that grounding issues are tricky and if you end up with different grounds at different potentials you can have noise problems.

If someone might wish to explain what's needed in proper grounding, I'd sure appreciate it. Let's assume that I've got to work with existing house ground and that digging holes and burying copper rods isn't an option at the moment.

The National Electical Code allows for a common ground of several circuits. This can create unwanted ground loops. Each circuit should have its' own neutral and ground (for ht and sound circuits).

 

[ht_addict]

.....ok, what about when warning lamps are flickering on almost ALL of your 12 channels of main's regiment and Earthquake 5 amps?....would the reviewers of receivers still say 1 or 2 watts times 17?....Ht_Addict, do you not count powered-sub draw in the overall electrical picture?.....your turn.....

At one point I did have my PW2100 hooked to my Monster HTPS 7000 and the total draw of all equipment(RPTV, Rec, DVD, Sub) was 5A. Maybe I'll plug in my Servo-15 and see what happens

 

[ht_addict]

I don't disagree but again, I was talking about peaks, not continuous R.M.S values. BTW, HT, owner of a 50 lbs plus monster Denon, current hungry Paradigms, and using 10 ga wires, bi-amp etc., you are not setting a good example here. You don't need mule's Earthquake, given the right conditions/source, your big Denon and Digms can, and will, draw more than 15A of transient currents. You probably have a dedicated 15A outlet too. We cannot change the fact that a 14 ga. 120V copper wires will suffer more voltage drop than 12 and 10 ga. ones. The longer the feed, the higher the volt drop.

No dedicated line, just a AVS2000 supplying a steady 120v/1800w On another note will all the receivers and rec/amp combos I've had, all have exhibited then same amount of draw +/- .5A

 

[mulester7]

At one point I did have my PW2100 hooked to my Monster HTPS 7000 and the total draw of all equipment(RPTV, Rec, DVD, Sub) was 5A. Maybe I'll plug in my Servo-15 and see what happens

.....shoot, attach twooooooooooooooooooo......

 

[FRANKTREN]

Sarius: I think what they mean is that each branch (20 Amp) should have it's own ground wire back to the service entrance, where you will connect to two 20 Amp breakers. From there, the ground goes to the power line and MAY connect to a ground rod. The standard today is two insulated con-ductors and one bare ground wire inside the outer sheath. Thus, 12/3 and
10/3 are just two different sizes of such interior wiring, commonly known as
Romex, a trade name.
Beyond the circuit capacity, there are some who believe that dedicated lines
also can contribute to lower noise and lower RFI and EMI. When properly done, this can be of benefit to the sound of your system. Most of us who live in urban areas are subjected to enormous amounts of EMI and RFI and the power company can't, or doesn't, do much about it. Those who advocate
dedicated lines also strongly believe in the use of power line filters. These can be either bulk filters into which all the equipment is plugged, or can be
installed into each individual component. Most consumer electronics don't have filters. Some high end audio gear does. All of my components have them, because I installed them in the units which didn't provide them.
Good luck with your upgrade.
FRANKTREN

 

[mtrycrafts]

Not really, but I expect to see that kind of peak current if I turn the volume right up to say +5 or higher when playing certain muli-channel stuff. I have no need to do such thing but others may.

If that is the case, those need a better setup on the power feed
Always exceptions to most rules

I agree with mtry that large caps should help, but he surely knows that if the caps are helping, they are also discharging. A 15 or 20A dedicated line is the way to go for peace of mind

Yes, caps discharge and then they charge for the next demand, or to a point, it is on going at some level constantly.

 

[mtrycrafts]

My Furman power conditioner has a voltage meter on it. When I'm playing Taiko drums through the A21 I can see the voltage drop by 2-3 volts during the peaks.

That is nothing The power company has a much greater allowance for their drop before attention is given.

You may want to see what your garbage disposer drops it to when you turn it on, or your toaster. Plug them into it and see.

 

[Sarius]

Sarius: I think what they mean is that each branch (20 Amp) should have it's own ground wire back to the service entrance, where you will connect to two 20 Amp breakers. From there, the ground goes to the power line and MAY connect to a ground rod. The standard today is two insulated con-ductors and one bare ground wire inside the outer sheath. Thus, 12/3 and
10/3 are just two different sizes of such interior wiring, commonly known as
Romex, a trade name.........

FRANKTREN

Thanks, that's what I'm going to do. I talked with the guy who will be doing the work for me and we're going to use the 12 ga romex, not ground at the boxes and run the ground back to the panel. The new breakers will be installed on the other leg from the heat/AC. That should do the trick. I'll plug the amp into one and all the other components into the other. While I probably didn't 'need' to run two line, the incremental cost of the second line was very little, so it seemed worthwhile to do while I was at it.

 

[Ax-man]

Thanks, that's what I'm going to do. I talked with the guy who will be doing the work for me and we're going to use the 12 ga romex, not ground at the boxes and run the ground back to the panel. The new breakers will be installed on the other leg from the heat/AC. That should do the trick. I'll plug the amp into one and all the other components into the other. While I probably didn't 'need' to run two line, the incremental cost of the second line was very little, so it seemed worthwhile to do while I was at it.

Sarius, I believe running the additional 'dedicated' is worth the time and investment. I turned my old screened room with it's own electrical circuit for a hot tub into a dedicated TV/music room and used the hot tub's breaker box and power (new 20 amp breakers and went from 220 to 110) for the equipment, which turned out great *but* apparently the hot tub's breaker box was grounded separately than the main house ground and I had a nasty ground hum whenever the TV cable coax was connected....running the rooms breaker box ground over to the other side of the house and connecting the ground there, where the cable TV was grounded solved the issue.

We found that the hot tub breaker box was in fact grounded to a ground rod next to the box which also had a ground wire running to the house's main ground but was disconnected whenever the hot tub was removed.

That stuff can certainly make for some head scratching at times, that's why my motto is 'Call the professionals!'

 

[WmAx]

Hmm. My stereo is about 720 WRMS output ability, so far as the amplifier ability. I have used it both on a shared 15 amp line(with lots of other stuff running from that circuit) and it never had any audible problem(s), even with very dynamic music. I currently run it from a dedicated 12AWG 20 Amp circuit which was installed for that purpose, and to be honest, the only thing that I can discern that it does is to (1) provide peace of mind [and] (2) prevent the light from dimming momentarily when I switched on one of the larger amplifiers as it used to do when on the shared circuit.

Of course, someone like mulester, whom is insane , would need to use a 20 amp dedicated circuit or even 2x 20 amp dedicated circuits, consdiring the extreme amplification he runs.

-Chris

 

[Sarius]

Hmm. My stereo is about 720 WRMS output ability, so far as the amplifier ability. ......

-Chris

More to the point, I'm driving speakers that present a fairly difficult load, Thiel CS2.2's which are 4 ohm's with first order crossovers. The Parasound A21 is putting out 800 WRMS total into that load, and I do play stuff like taiko drums which really drive things. In fact, my previous amp, which was 'only' 200 watts/ch clipped with the drums and fried the tweeters and crossover which necessitated driving them down to the factory for a rebuild.

As I recall, the amp will draw over 1,500 watts under these conditions, so with my other equipment plugged into the same circuit, the only one available at the moment, I figured I was getting a bit too close to what I should be asking a 15 amp shared circuit to do. Hence my desire to upgrade to 20 amps. Turns out that it's the first one that costs, if I'm putting in one, the second line, while not free, is just a small incremental cost so I figure, Why Not?

 

[Sarius]

Ok, the lines are in and things went smoothly. So as to the results-

There is no noise, so I'd assume that the grounding is proper, it was run back to the panel and tied in there. As I said, we pulled two separate runs of 12 ga Romex.

In terms of objective results, I mentioned that with everything plugged into the 15 amp circuit, my Taiko Drum CD was pulling the voltage down by 2-4 volts on the big bass passages. Now, as one would expect, the voltage remains rock solid at 122V during those same passages.

In terms of subjective results, I don't particularly feel like defending myself against accusations of having audio delusions, as people here tend to make, so I'll not comment.

I will comment that I consider the money well spent, and with two dedicated 20 amp lines, I'll be ready for any changes and upgrades that I might care to make in the years to come and I have my floor lamp outlet back. By taking a systems level view and designing my stereo system as an integrated whole, I now have a sound that will rival any system that I've heard at any price at a total expenditure of less than $8,000 which includes all equipment, acoustic treatments, and these circuits.

 

[~JC~]

If your setup demanded more than the 15 amps... even during a quick transient, it would trip and you'd have to reset it. Only then you would need to think about beefing up the breaker and rewiring.
It's not restricting you if it doesn't trip.

I had 2 20 amp circuits pulled to the theater. All of the lights in the theater and all of the outlets are on the same 15 amp circuit. (I know, I didn't catch this mistake during construction) If you plug anything of any draw into an outlet, (for example a vacuum cleaner) the lights dim when you turn it on. At least all of the av stuff will be on their own circuits.

 

[NGL_BrSH]

If my walls were open.. and i were building a house.. then yeah.. why not. Add the two extra wires.. but I definitely wouldn't spend a second of my time snaking /opening walls just to add a dedicated line of a higher gauge like the original poster indicated he was doing. Unless of course mathematically my equipment required more than 15 amps. (which mine will never need)
If you have feedback or ground problems.. then i'd do it but if you're not experiencing any unwanted noise (which a cheap surge protector or a new ground location would probably fix) i'd leave it as it is.

This does make me a little wet... my co-worker's Bryston 9BSST's manual say's "the 9BSST when operated with all channels at maximum power into 4 ohms loads, can consume all the available power in a normal household circuit, therefore a dedicated electrical circuit may be necessary with this situation."

in that scenario 4 ohms.. nice bryston amp, speakers that can use it.. i'd run the wire.

Make sure you run 0/1 gauge back to the pole directly to your outlet and see if your power company will run you a dedicated line from their location. Also call them up for a new power box that has 24karat gold connectors and don't forget the 24karat Fuse box. ok i'm being a smart-***