Dac Chips- ES9038Q2M or AK4490 delta sigma (thoughts-opinions)

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Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
So some of you may or may not know, I have been on the hunt for a quality reasonable priced new DAC for my daughters new system. Which is an all separates system. ( I might also upgrade from the dac im using in the P5) Most of the products I have been looking into either contain the ES9038Q2m or the delta sigma AK4490 chip set. Now I know the implementation of the dac has an over all effect on it's sound quality, but there has to be a certain sound signature with each chip.

Well after a long night of unscheduled poker, I brought this subject up at the table. And I was a little shocked by how strong the feelings were regarding both chips. And a little surprised at the argument that followed. And with most of the people playing by this point were a little intoxicated, it turned into unexpected arguments. So as quickly as I had brought up the topic, I tried to shut it down. Wasn't easy, but eventually successful.

So I bring the question to you guys for your thoughts and or opinions on the subject. Do you have a preference ? Why you think one may be better that the other ? Do you think one or the other imparts a certain sound characteristic for the good or bad ? Etc, etc, etc.
Since I think most replying here will be sober, please feel free to chime in.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
If you've been reading posts on this subject here, I think you'll find that most of us don't put a lot of weight into different dacs, especially the higher-priced ones. What I've learned from my time here is that the consensus is, if a DAC is well designed and implemented they all sound pretty good.
 
CB22

CB22

Senior Audioholic
Well I've tried several different DACs ranging from the Toppings D50, Filio MK2, Mojo Chord, the DACS in the Cambridge Audio 851N and the DAC in my Anthem. Conclusion I've came to it really makes no difference provided you're using a decent DAC. Just because it measures on paper does not mean it will sound different to your ears. If you have money to blow go for it. The audiophile will say, "Wait you can't hear the difference! Clearly your system isen't resolving enough!" lolzzz
 
Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
CB22 said:
Well I've tried several different DACs ranging from the Toppings D50, Filio MK2, Mojo Chord, the DACS in the Cambridge Audio 851N and the DAC in my Anthem. Conclusion I've came to it really makes no difference provided you're using a decent DAC. Just because it measures on paper does not mean it will sound different to your ears. If you have money to blow go for it. The audiophile will say, "Wait you can't hear the difference! Clearly your system isen't resolving enough!" lolzzz
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I kind of always thought as long as it was capable of playing the files you needed, there probably wasn't much difference as long as it was implemented properly. But man, the guys last night, well it was kind of funny. Listening to drunks argue over which one was more musical or technical or clear etc. Never seen or heard so much passion over a DAC. It was amusing for a little bit, but then began to get out of hand. So we had to just shut down the topic.
Just another great example ( of which there are many ) as to why I no longer drink.
 
CB22

CB22

Senior Audioholic
Truthslayer said:
Listening to drunks argue over which one was more musical or technical or clear etc.
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Sounds like they have golden ears. I think a lot of audiophiles out there have the mindset because it costs more it must sound better. I really think there's a physiology behind the price the audio equipment and thoughts on sound quality. If you bind tested DACs on those drunks i bet you would be find that they don't actually have golden ears.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
It's a lot like HD video going from 4K to 8K. Sure it specs better and the numbers back it all up, but can you even see the difference? We are limited by our biology and our monkey brains. There is a limit to how much we can resolve with video or audio. Anything beyond that is lost.

It's been my experience and that of others here that the DAC in most quality AVRs will sound just as good as some of the more pricey offerings.
 
Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
Pogre said:
It's a lot like HD video going from 4K to 8K. Sure it specs better and the numbers back it all up, but can you even see the difference? We are limited by our biology and our monkey brains. There is a limit to how much we can resolve with video or audio. Anything beyond that is lost.

It's been my experience and that of others here that the DAC in most quality AVRs will sound just as good as some of the more pricey offerings.
Click to expand...
The main thing I look for ( or should I say listen for ) is a dead quiet noise floor. As in no hum or hiss.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I am continually amazed by how many put so much importance into a dac let alone all the sonic differences claimed.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Truthslayer said:
The main thing I look for ( or should I say listen for ) is a dead quiet noise floor. As in no hum or hiss.
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My system is nice and quiet when nothing is playing. I've never heard it hum or hiss and I'm using a SR6011 for my pre. There are enough rabbit holes in this hobby. I try to stick to the ones that can produce tangible results like room acoustics and speakers.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
None of my avrs exhibit any funky noises either, all have dead quiet noise floors. I have no stand-alone dacs, tho.
 
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everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Truthslayer said:
The main thing I look for ( or should I say listen for ) is a dead quiet noise floor. As in no hum or hiss.
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I've had esoteric amps that had an audible hiss when no source was playing, never effected the sound more like meh, but that's me .
 
Truthslayer

Truthslayer

Full Audioholic
Well I am just thankful my system is dead quiet. That's why when I tested that modi 3 (hum) it went straight back.
But I can't tell you how many people I know and systems I've heard were people think their system is dead quiet, when in actuality it is not. I guess im more sensitive to any sort of hiss. Seems to be pretty common that most don't seem to hear it. Not sure if that's good or bad. But it's probably why I don't enjoy most people's systems.

I had an Onkyo back in the late 80's early 90's and it drove me crazy. Took it in to my dealer, he thought I was nuts because he couldn't hear anything. So he agreed to have it tested. Then when the technician reported it could be seen on his test bench, but there was no way it should be audible. Well I heard it and the test proved it. So I hate when manufactures advertise the so called specs that don't always look so good, then try and justify the products short cummings, by saying at this point it wouldn't be audible anyway.

Point being, some of us can hear these minute details, while many can not. So yeah, it's probably more of a curse than anything.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Sounds like when I got my plasma....some swear they can hear buzzing others can't. Never heard it myself.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Seems some were sensitive to crt's too now that I think about it.....
 
Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Field Marshall
Truthslayer said:
The main thing I look for ( or should I say listen for ) is a dead quiet noise floor. As in no hum or hiss.
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The two TEAC's that I have had (UD-501 and now UD-H01) make no audible noise whatsoever. Cambridge DacMagic 100 was weird in that in had a low almost mechanical sound that accompanied the audio and persisted for about 20 seconds after playback stopped. It was repeatable, so definitely something going on with that unit. Musical Fidelity M1 DAC was noiseless. JDS EL DAC V1 I believe was quiet. V2 I will have in my hands next week sometime so I can give you an answer.

Mind you, all this is with my ear at the tweeter, which is nothing resembling a sane listening position. None were audible from where I actually sit. My noise issues that began after we moved were house-wiring related.
 
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