crossover frequency with no subwoofer?

T

TitusTroy

Enthusiast
I have a set of Aperion Intimus 5T speakers from 2010...I recently bought a new receiver and forgot about how I should set up the speakers/crossover...my 2 fronts are tower speakers with dual 5.25" woofers built inside...I don't have a dedicated subwoofer...I only have the 2 front towers, 2 rears and a center channel

in setup what should I set my crossover as for the fronts, rears and center?...full range?...60 Hz?...80 Hz?...or does not having a sub connected automatically disable the crossover?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Depends on the receiver, some can apply a high pass filter for your speakers without a sub (it won't be a crossover without a sub). Does Aperion suggest you need one for full range use due some problem with handling lower frequencies? Do you plan to use LFE thru these speakers at high levels, or something along those lines, to worry about?
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
Without a subwoofer, U need to set the Front L/R loudspeakers to Large and Subwoofer OFF. If not done, U will miss the LFE channel info if included in the source media. Also as lovinthehd mentioned.. :)
Be careful with volume levels as now the lowest bass content from the LFE and L/R Fronts will be summed together....

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
T

TitusTroy

Enthusiast
Depends on the receiver, some can apply a high pass filter for your speakers without a sub (it won't be a crossover without a sub). Does Aperion suggest you need one for full range use due some problem with handling lower frequencies? Do you plan to use LFE thru these speakers at high levels, or something along those lines, to worry about?
I bought a new 4K receiver- Onkyo TX-NR686 (arrives tomorrow)...I wanted to post the links to the specifications of my speakers but the forum won't let me until I reach 5 posts...I actually do enjoy listening at moderately high levels (-15 dB to -5 dB)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
I bought a new 4K receiver- Onkyo TX-NR686 (arrives tomorrow)...I wanted to post the links to the specifications of my speakers but the forum won't let me until I reach 5 posts...I actually do enjoy listening at moderately high levels (-15 dB to -5 dB)
Listing make/model of something is often sufficient, altho nice to have a link :) What about the speaker spec worries you? This is primarily a movie setup? Why no sub?
 
T

TitusTroy

Enthusiast
Without a subwoofer, U need to set the Front L/R loudspeakers to Large and Subwoofer OFF. If not done, U will miss the LFE channel info if included in the source media. Also as lovinthehd mentioned.. :)

Be careful with volume levels as now the lowest bass content from the LFE and L/R Fronts will be summed together....
so fronts at Large...what about rears and center?

as far as volume levels, what's the worst case scenario?...could it damage my speakers?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
so fronts at Large...what about rears and center?

as far as volume levels, what's the worst case scenario?...could it damage my speakers?
Kinda depends on what bass you want redirected (small means use bass management/redirection for a particular channel) plus the speakers themselves. Sure, you can always damage speakers if you do it right :) Why would you do that in normal use, tho? Lots of drunken parties where you can't hear things going bad and turn the volume down?
 
T

TitusTroy

Enthusiast
Listing make/model of something is often sufficient, altho nice to have a link :) What about the speaker spec worries you? This is primarily a movie setup? Why no sub?
the model is Aperion Intimus 5T...front towers, center, rears...I don't have a subwoofer because I live in an apartment and I was worried it might be too much...plus I thought that the towers with built in subs (dual 5.25" woofers) would be OK for an apartment setting

honestly I've been very pleased with the overall sound...yes I don't get room shaking bass but I do feel the vibrations and air from the speakers during bass heavy scenes
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
so fronts at Large...what about rears and center?

as far as volume levels, what's the worst case scenario?...could it damage my speakers?
1. The setting of rears and center if they don't have the capability of reproducing frequencies <200Hz I would recommend setting to Small.
2. If the volume levels are high and audible clipping distortion is heard, YES U may have loudspeaker damage.

Final note:
Without a Subwoofer U are missing some crucial content info, so my recommendation would be to add a Subwoofer when possible.

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
T

TitusTroy

Enthusiast
Final note:
Without a Subwoofer U are missing some crucial content info, so my recommendation would be to add a Subwoofer when possible.
I have no doubt I'm missing a lot of low end but I know I won't be able to get away with that in my apartment...no point spending $$ on a decent sub when I know I won't be able to use it to its potential

even the 5 speakers I have now are pretty loud...and like I said I love listening at higher volumes...adding a sub would get me kicked out or have the police called ;)
 
T

TitusTroy

Enthusiast
Listing make/model of something is often sufficient, altho nice to have a link :) What about the speaker spec worries you? This is primarily a movie setup? Why no sub?
looks like I can post links now...this is basically the same model I have...but mine was bought in 2010:

these are the specs for my front towers (scroll down a bit and click the 'Specifications' tab)
https://www.aperionaudio.com/collections/speakers/products/intimus-5t-tower-speaker-stealth-black

my center channel speaker
https://www.aperionaudio.com/collections/speakers/products/intimus-5c-center-channel-speaker-stealth-black

and this is my surrounds specs
https://www.aperionaudio.com/collections/speakers/products/verus-surround-dipole-bipole-speaker-pair
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
I have no doubt I'm missing a lot of low end but I know I won't be able to get away with that in my apartment...no point spending $$ on a decent sub when I know I won't be able to use it to its potential

even the 5 speakers I have now are pretty loud...and like I said I love listening at higher volumes...adding a sub would get me kicked out or have the police called ;)
If the present system setup delivers enough bass and satisfies ur sonic objectives then forget the Subwoofer...

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
the model is Aperion Intimus 5T...front towers, center, rears...I don't have a subwoofer because I live in an apartment and I was worried it might be too much...plus I thought that the towers with built in subs (dual 5.25" woofers) would be OK for an apartment setting

honestly I've been very pleased with the overall sound...yes I don't get room shaking bass but I do feel the vibrations and air from the speakers during bass heavy scenes
The towers barely have mid-woofers, let alone subs (those speakers have an f3 of only 55hz, so don't dig very deeply at all). Keep the volume reasonable and a sub can work in an apartment....well, somewhat depending on construction of the building. Bass does travel fairly easily thru walls/floors/ceilings in most apartment buildings....but at levels to keep your neighbors happy is one reason I gave up apartment living more than 40 years ago! (and more about how much I heard THEM)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
[QUOT
If the present system setup delivers enough bass and satisfies ur sonic objectives then forget the Subwoofer...

Just my $0.02... ;)
Similarly, at reasonable levels doubt there's any problem running your speakers full range....
 
T

TitusTroy

Enthusiast
Depends on the receiver, some can apply a high pass filter for your speakers without a sub (it won't be a crossover without a sub). Does Aperion suggest you need one for full range use due some problem with handling lower frequencies? Do you plan to use LFE thru these speakers at high levels, or something along those lines, to worry about?
do you happen to know if the Onkyo TX-NR686 receiver I purchased has the high pass filter you mentioned earlier?...is it done automatically or does it need to be enabled in the receiver settings?
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
I bought a new 4K receiver- Onkyo TX-NR686 (arrives tomorrow)...I wanted to post the links to the specifications of my speakers but the forum won't let me until I reach 5 posts...I actually do enjoy listening at moderately high levels (-15 dB to -5 dB)
If you don’t have a sub and your AVR allows you to set all your speakers to small that makes the most sense. Small setting is for no LFE signal.

Forget about the .1 info being lost your speakers are not subs and your amp will appreciate your consideration.

You can set a crossover level for speakers without a sub connected. The speakers will not get a signal below your AVRs active crossover. If it’s not a brick wall crossover set the crossover to 80 hz and let the active crossover reduce the signal the amp sees. If it’s -24db that’s almost down 500x the power by 40 Hz. -24 db is a massive drop in audible output and over 1 octave.

Move your speakers more towards the corners of your room to boost your low frequency output instead of asking your amp to drive a woofer with far less excursion than a dedicated sub into unsafe frequencies.

Lastly placing your speakers closer to corners does not change the input frequencies only the perceived loudness of the frequencies that are input!
 
T

TitusTroy

Enthusiast
If you don’t have a sub and your AVR allows you to set all your speakers to small that makes the most sense. Small setting is for no LFE signal
I was all set to put the Subwoofer to Off and all the speakers set to Large...now you've thrown a wrench into things :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
I was all set to put the Subwoofer to Off and all the speakers set to Large...now you've thrown a wrench into things :)
Generally if you set your speakers to large the fronts get the LFE. I wouldn't necessarily want to lose the LFE information even if my speakers couldn't handle it at higher levels....in your case I'd probably set the speakers to large at least in the fronts.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
do you happen to know if the Onkyo TX-NR686 receiver I purchased has the high pass filter you mentioned earlier?...is it done automatically or does it need to be enabled in the receiver settings?
Haven't looked at a new Onkyo but my older Onkyo simply has a setting for full range vs using a crossover for each channel. If the sub is enabled and the setting is to "crossover" you can at least control some of the bass re-direction for each channel.
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
I was all set to put the Subwoofer to Off and all the speakers set to Large...now you've thrown a wrench into things :)
Try it several ways. As long as your not a nut without a regulator you’ll be fine. The rest of us nuts had to find our way as well and set the regulator.

My wife is the power cord :eek:
 

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