Coronavirus

[Mr._Clark]

I'm guessing a lot of people saw this already, but I'll post it anyway. It does not look like a silver bullet, but I guess it's better than nothing.

FDA Authorizes [on an emergency basis] Monoclonal Antibody for Treatment of COVID-19

>>>While the safety and effectiveness of this investigational therapy continues to be evaluated, bamlanivimab was shown in clinical trials to reduce COVID-19-related hospitalization or emergency room visits in patients at high risk for disease progression within 28 days after treatment when compared to placebo. . . . the most important evidence that bamlanivimab may be effective came from the predefined secondary endpoint of COVID-19-related hospitalizations or emergency room visits within 28 days after treatment. For patients at high risk for disease progression, hospitalizations and emergency room visits occurred in 3% of bamlanivimab-treated patients on average compared to 10% in placebo-treated patients. The effects on viral load and on reduction in hospitalizations and ER visits, and on safety, were similar in patients receiving any of the three bamlanivimab doses.<<<

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Authorizes Monoclonal Antibody for Treatment of COVID-19

Today, the FDA issued an EUA for an investigational monoclonal antibody therapy for treatment of mild-to-moderate COVID-19 in adult and pediatric patients.

www.fda.gov

 

[highfigh]

You are pivoting away from my question!
My question is if the Democrats had at their disposal the means to control the election (which implies no small degree organizational/planning expertise) why would they not use it for the Senate? How many people do you think must be "in" on this endeavor. One or two people can keep a secret, but when you are talking 100's you really need to consider other explanations because thing fall apart quickly.

Apparently the moon landing and holocaust can maintain plausible deniability with people, so it seems pointless to attempt to prove beyond any doubt that no election fraud of numbers significant enough to change this election exist. That is why I am asking the above question!

The election for POTUS is more important to people- if Senate seats were as important, we wouldn't have so many in office for 35+ years.

I don't know how many are 'in' on this- that's the reason I posted about not putting up links since I want to see more attention but if you search for them, you can come to your own conclusions, as I posted.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I didn't say we don't have free will, I mean it's stupid to give it to humans. The ones who believe that we don't just say "Everything happens for a reason" and "It's God's will".

Fine way to justify bad actions.

Actually, as I mentioned above, free will has traditionally been a religious concept - making people accountable for their actions, especially in Christianity. You know - the "Catholic Guilt" thing? That said, some faith traditions have the concept of "fate" which, as you alluded to, is God's will.

 

[highfigh]

I'm not saying I endorse it unreservedly. Many scientists have little patience for the concept of free will because for many of them, it is the preserve of religion. There is no question that the universe must abide by the laws of physics which is more than levers & fulcrums and the coefficient of friction. It forms the guardrails between which chemicals, including hormones, are able to act/react/interact, governing our behaviour to a significant degree. It's when we get beyond the realm of physics and enter the world of metaphysics that I think free will comes into play.

Minds aren't controlled by physics- at this point, I'm not sure logic and/or reason actually enter the picture until after some terrible event and other people are left to determine what happened and if possible, why it happened.

 

[highfigh]

Actually, as I mentioned above, free will has traditionally been a religious concept - making people accountable for their actions, especially in Christianity. You know - the "Catholic Guilt" thing? That said, some faith traditions have the concept of "fate" which, as you alluded to, is God's will.

Right, but the idea that people make their own decisions AND religion are the reasons we have laws.

The first written laws came in about 2050-2100 B.C., although I have to believe spoken laws were around much longer. The Code of Hammurabi came about around 1772 BC and these are the basis of 'an eye for an eye'.

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sites.google.com

I think it was John Stewart who was taking about religion and comparing Judaism & Christianity- called Christianity 'guilt-lite'.

 

[highfigh]

the thing there is covid social distance.. not some plot... it's a govt run election.. thus govt healthcare regs ..it is what it is , and it's not a "dem conspiracy"

'Democrat' can be attached to it if nobody else is involved, the same goes for attaching 'Republican' to whatever tactics are only used by them. The rules for poll watching were set before the 6' rule and if they explicitly use the 6' rule to prevent the watchers seeing what's happening, it's a problem. There are ways to prevent the poll worker and watcher exposing each other to the virus- a screen could be placed immediately behind the worker. Since they're each supposed to be wearing a mask, I don't think it would spread and the main problem at that point would be the expense for the screens.

 

[lp85253]

'Democrat' can be attached to it if nobody else is involved, the same goes for attaching 'Republican' to whatever tactics are only used by them. The rules for poll watching were set before the 6' rule and if they explicitly use the 6' rule to prevent the watchers seeing what's happening, it's a problem. There are ways to prevent the poll worker and watcher exposing each other to the virus- a screen could be placed immediately behind the worker. Since they're each supposed to be wearing a mask, I don't think it would spread and the main problem at that point would be the expense for the screens

see that's the thing.. govt health dept goes by set guidelines.. not by what dude on the internet thinks is safe.. it's just political talking points.. there are both dems and repulicans represented at every polling place.. so far there haven't been any allegations of corruption that are credible..i do understand you probably believe there have been cases of fraud.. but so far no one has seen a credible instance.. i'm sure you know that Ga. and AZ have longstanding republican run govts..

 

[lp85253]

'Democrat' can be attached to it if nobody else is involved, the same goes for attaching 'Republican' to whatever tactics are only used by them. The rules for poll watching were set before the 6' rule and if they explicitly use the 6' rule to prevent the watchers seeing what's happening, it's a problem. There are ways to prevent the poll worker and watcher exposing each other to the virus- a screen could be placed immediately behind the worker. Since they're each supposed to be wearing a mask, I don't think it would spread and the main problem at that point would be the expense for the screens.

here's a little something to think about: imo. trump set this all up.. he claimed the only way he could lose was fraud, then he told his base to vote in person, knowing by experience that mail votes take longer to count , set up a false notion that "votes can't be counted after election day",and of course his (partially) illiterate base fell for it..the TRUTH is that some states have been doing this for years..and until the orange menace came along everything worked just fine...

 

[Trell]

see that's the thing.. govt health dept goes by set guidelines.. not by what dude on the internet thinks is safe.. it's just political talking points.. there are both dems and repulicans represented at every polling place.. so far there haven't been any allegations of corruption that are credible..i do understand you probably believe there have been cases of fraud.. but so far no one has seen a credible instance.. i'm sure you know that Ga. and AZ have longstanding republican run govts..

There are many baseless accusations from G.O.P. about "irregularities", "fraud" and so on. They are unable to give any credible evidence in interviews and even Fox News has repeatedly rebutted or questioned the claims. The G.O.P. is also laughed out of the courts when they press suit as they have no evidence at all!

The US General Attorney Barr is opening election fraud investigations, and prompting the career official running the DOJ branch that oversees such prosecutions to resign from his position: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/09/barr-memo-authorizes-doj-to-open-election-fraud-investigations-435622

Even some lawyers working from the firms pressing the election fraud suits are concerned that they undermine the electoral process: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/business/jones-day-trump-election-lawsuits.html

This is nothing more than a G.O.P. attempt at undermining the US electoral process, and it's very dangerous to a democracy.

 

[Trell]

I guess we're a bit off-topic but an Administration hell-bent on baseless election fraud accusations along with corresponding lawsuits [edit: added] certainly does not make handling of the epidemic any easier with an obstructing G.O.P. Senate and Trump (reportedly) hinders the peaceful transfer of power.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Could people please take the election and free will discussions to another thread? Yes, I have made political comments in this thread myself, but we're really getting off track right now.

Allowing COVID-19 positive healthcare workers to continue working strikes me as being a terrible idea, even if it is consistent with the CDC crises guidelines:

>>>In an attempt to alleviate some of the staffing concerns, Burgum announced that the state health officer has amended an order that will allow health care workers with asymptomatic cases of COVID-19 to continue working in hospitals' COVID-19 units.<<<

https://www.grandforksherald.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6753876-With-North-Dakota-hospitals-at-100-capacity-Burgum-announces-COVID-positive-nurses-can-stay-at-work

>>>There are Contingency and Crisis Capacity Strategies that healthcare facilities should consider in these situations. For example, if, despite efforts to mitigate, HCP staffing shortages occur, healthcare systems, facilities, and the appropriate state, local, territorial, and/or tribal health authorities might determine that HCP with suspected or confirmed COVID-19 could return to work before the full Return to Work Criteria have been met.<<<

Healthcare Workers

COVID-19 guidance, tools, and resources for healthcare workers.

www.cdc.gov

 

[lp85253]

Could people please take the election and free will discussions to another thread? Yes, I have made political comments in this thread myself, but we're really getting off track right now.

Allowing COVID-19 positive healthcare workers to continue working strikes me as being a terrible idea, even if it is consistent with the CDC crises guidelines:

>>>In an attempt to alleviate some of the staffing concerns, Burgum announced that the state health officer has amended an order that will allow health care workers with asymptomatic cases of COVID-19 to continue working in hospitals' COVID-19 units.<<<

https://www.grandforksherald.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6753876-With-North-Dakota-hospitals-at-100-capacity-Burgum-announces-COVID-positive-nurses-can-stay-at-work

>>>There are Contingency and Crisis Capacity Strategies that healthcare facilities should consider in these situations. For example, if, despite efforts to mitigate, HCP staffing shortages occur, healthcare systems, facilities, and the appropriate state, local, territorial, and/or tribal health authorities might determine that HCP with suspected or confirmed COVID-19 could return to work before the full Return to Work Criteria have been met.<<<

Healthcare Workers

COVID-19 guidance, tools, and resources for healthcare workers.

www.cdc.gov

sorry, point taken..

 

[Trell]

Could people please take the election and free will discussions to another thread? Yes, I have made political comments in this thread myself, but we're really getting off track right now.

Allowing COVID-19 positive healthcare workers to continue working strikes me as being a terrible idea, even if it is consistent with the CDC crises guidelines:

>>>In an attempt to alleviate some of the staffing concerns, Burgum announced that the state health officer has amended an order that will allow health care workers with asymptomatic cases of COVID-19 to continue working in hospitals' COVID-19 units.<<<

https://www.grandforksherald.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6753876-With-North-Dakota-hospitals-at-100-capacity-Burgum-announces-COVID-positive-nurses-can-stay-at-work

>>>There are Contingency and Crisis Capacity Strategies that healthcare facilities should consider in these situations. For example, if, despite efforts to mitigate, HCP staffing shortages occur, healthcare systems, facilities, and the appropriate state, local, territorial, and/or tribal health authorities might determine that HCP with suspected or confirmed COVID-19 could return to work before the full Return to Work Criteria have been met.<<<

Healthcare Workers

COVID-19 guidance, tools, and resources for healthcare workers.

www.cdc.gov

Agree on both points, while your second point is the significant one without a doubt.

Edit: Of course, a Republican Governor that falls in line, as opposed to the very few others.

 

[highfigh]

here's a little something to think about: imo. trump set this all up.. he claimed the only way he could lose was fraud, then he told his base to vote in person, knowing by experience that mail votes take longer to count , set up a false notion that "votes can't be counted after election day",and of course his (partially) illiterate base fell for it..the TRUTH is that some states have been doing this for years..and until the orange menace came along everything worked just fine...

Too many variables. If the voting had been done in the same way before Trump, you could blame Trump but when both come along during the same time, it's hard to be absolutely sure about the cause, especially since people are so freaked out by COVID, being shut in and not dealing with that particularly well, a ridiculously contentious election campaign and everything else that's adding to peoples' stress level.

 

[Trell]

Too many variables. If the voting had been done in the same way before Trump, you could blame Trump but when both come along during the same time, it's hard to be absolutely sure about the cause, especially since people are so freaked out by COVID, being shut in and not dealing with that particularly well, a ridiculously contentious election campaign and everything else that's adding to peoples' stress level.

Apart from the extensive G.O.P. voter suppression/intimidation and the Trump's administration harping of the "election fraud" (in it's various incantations and lawsuits) for months, this election process seems to be pretty much as usual: By the book. Even the state/local G.O.P. says as much.

Edit: But, there has to be a but, right? The US Supreme Court.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Minds aren't controlled by physics- at this point, I'm not sure logic and/or reason actually enter the picture until after some terrible event and other people are left to determine what happened and if possible, why it happened.

To an extent, they most certainly are. Hormone imbalances and brain injuries can induce people to do the strangest things...sometimes horrific things. It's why we have "not guilty by reason of insanity laws".

 

[eljr]

I'm not saying I endorse it unreservedly. Many scientists have little patience for the concept of free will because for many of them, it is the preserve of religion. There is no question that the universe must abide by the laws of physics which is more than levers & fulcrums and the coefficient of friction. It forms the guardrails between which chemicals, including hormones, are able to act/react/interact, governing our behaviour to a significant degree. It's when we get beyond the realm of physics and enter the world of metaphysics that I think free will comes into play.

free will is an illusion

you had it right in the highlighted (btw, you left out many other physical reactions that take place in our brain)

 

[lp85253]

Too many variables. If the voting had been done in the same way before Trump, you could blame Trump but when both come along during the same time, it's hard to be absolutely sure about the cause, especially since people are so freaked out by COVID, being shut in and not dealing with that particularly well, a ridiculously contentious election campaign and everything else that's adding to peoples' stress level.

but , i keep telling you.. mail in voting ISN'T new .. that's just a talking point..the variable here is trump and his insane accusations..

 

[GO-NAD!]

free will is an illusion

you had it right in the highlighted (btw, you left out many other physical reactions that take place in our brain)

Wow, it looks like I'm stuck between you and @highfigh. And, yes, there other physical actions in ours brains, but the post wasn't meant to be comprehensive.

 

[Trell]

To an extent, they most certainly are. Hormone imbalances and brain injuries can induce people to do the strangest things...sometimes horrific things. It's why we have "not guilty by reason of insanity laws".

I'm sort of in the category "free will" in that I recognize there are, to me, obvious physical limitations to free will, but also social as well as informational constraints that shape our thoughts and preferences, along with medical conditions.