TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
curious as to the length of time an 'asymptomatic' individual remains infectious ? Is there an average length of time known ?
If they are asymptomatic you never know when they got it. So they have to be assumed infectious for 10 days at least, 14 to make sure.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
What President that you know of never lied to Congress Senate and the House of Representatives or the people that voted them in the office. As for Trump's Executive orders, with the Supreme court being stacked I do see your point. Thing about what Trump can and can't do in office, I'm sure You know,
Turning up the courts on Social media sites with the Lawmakers and lawyers up in Washington, paying for it won't come out of his back pocket it'll come out of the tax Payers back pocket. Just add it onto the tab of all of the Debt over the last seven presidencies of 25+ Trillion!
Well, I don't think there has been a president before who lied or mislead everyone so much as this one has and will. That is his nature.
Yep, the debt has been going up beyond the last 7 president, except for on short period when we had a surplus.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
If they are asymptomatic you never know when they got it. So they have to be assumed infectious for 10 days at least, 14 to make sure.
But what prevents them from being infectious beyond 14 days?
 
Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Field Marshall
Well, I don't think there has been a president before who lied or mislead everyone so much as this one has and will. That is his nature.
Yep, the debt has been going up beyond the last 7 president, except for on short period when we had a surplus.
Not a big fan of any past or Present president in Washington over the last 150 years or so. Only 3 but I wasn't born. George Washington, Andrew Jackson, Abraham Lincoln. The 3 greatest Presidents to hold office in my book. As for which one lied the best? Guess if your going to Stretch the truth just as soon do it Publicly. Some just where better at Trying to hide Lying from the Public. It only matters when Election time comes. What Group one chooses to represent and have in power. Remember when in Rome do as the Romans do don't do as they say the Romans do. :)
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
Not a big fan of any past or Present president in Washington over the last 150 years or so. .... :)
Did you time jump somehow to the wrong century?;)
I guess FDR who stemmed the tide of 1929 depression is a nobody? His SS is irrelevant?
 
Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Field Marshall
Did you time jump somehow to the wrong century?;)
I guess FDR who stemmed the tide of 1929 depression is a nobody? His SS is irrelevant?
FDR huh, his Social programs alone with many others he signed into law of the interstate HWY Programs. Where indeed great Accomplishments. Other than those listed, He give Communist Russia a foothold During World War ll. Before USA got hit by Japan, bureaucracy up in Washington was a joke like it is today. I often wonder if he hadn't died and Truman hadn't taking over office how Different that War would have ended. I stand by my post there Be No United States of America without the three greatest I listed.
 
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M

Mr._Clark

Full Audioholic
Two doctors in Italy claim that the COVID 19 virus has weakened. I'm skeptical at this point, but I hope there is something to this.

>>>“In reality, the virus clinically no longer exists in Italy,” said Alberto Zangrillo, the head of the San Raffaele Hospital in Milan in the northern region of Lombardy, which has borne the brunt of Italy’s coronavirus contagion.

“The swabs that were performed over the last 10 days showed a viral load in quantitative terms that was absolutely infinitesimal compared to the ones carried out a month or two months ago,” he told RAI television. . . .
A second doctor from northern Italy told the national ANSA news agency that he was also seeing the coronavirus weaken.

“The strength the virus had two months ago is not the same strength it has today,” said Matteo Bassetti, head of the infectious diseases clinic at the San Martino hospital in the city of Genoa.

“It is clear that today the COVID-19 disease is different.”<<<

 
M

Mr._Clark

Full Audioholic
It looks like some early testing of antibody drugs has started.

I've read a few commentaries suggesting that these types of drugs have the best chance of being successful and getting into production before an effective vaccine is developed. Obviously no one knows for sure what will happen, but my best guess is that the antibody drugs will prove to be at least somewhat effective (yes, I am attempting to elicit a response from TLS Guy and Swerd, who know about this than I do).

I have also commentaries to the effect that the virus is likely to spread through the population until herd immunity is reached before a vaccine is developed and widely available. The argument seems to be that the only point in slowing the spread is to prevent overwhelming the health care system (i.e. the total number of fatalities will ultimately be the same provided that number of cases at any given time are within the capacity of the hospitals). Personally, I disagree because there appear to be reasonable scenarios in which more aggressively delaying the spread could save lives. For example, if the antibody drugs are effective and 100,000 doses per month become available before vaccines become available, it might be possible to reduce the fatalities (before a vaccine is widely available) by limiting the number of new cases and treating the more severe cases and those at higher risk.

The "let it spread with the only limit being the capacity of the hospitals" approach eliminates the chance that lives might be saved if effective treatments are developed soon enough. I'd concede that the "let it spread" approach has the potential benefit of reducing negative economic effects, which are of course real.

Just my opinion.

 
M

Mr._Clark

Full Audioholic
I'm seeing more articles about how the covid 19 virus spreads beyond the lungs, and potential ways to treat patients when this happens.

>>>The key is direct and indirect damage to the endothelial cells that line the blood vessels, particularly in the lungs, explains Peter Carmeliet, a vascular biologist at the Belgian research institute VIB and co-author of a 21 May paper in Nature Reviews Immunology. By attacking those cells, COVID-19 infection causes vessels to leak and blood to clot. Those changes in turn spark inflammation throughout the body and fuel the acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) responsible for most patient deaths.<<<



>>>In a paper published in April in the scientific journal The Lancet, Mehra and a team of scientists discovered that the SARS-CoV-2 virus can infect the endothelial cells that line the inside of blood vessels. Endothelial cells protect the cardiovascular system, and they release proteins that influence everything from blood clotting to the immune response. In the paper, the scientists showed damage to endothelial cells in the lungs, heart, kidneys, liver, and intestines in people with Covid-19.

“The concept that’s emerging is that this is not a respiratory illness alone, this is a respiratory illness to start with, but it is actually a vascular illness that kills people through its involvement of the vasculature,” says Mehra.<<<




>>>[W]hen the authors of the present study looked at the peptide sequence of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, they found evidence that newly acquired mutations allow the virus to exploit both furin and TMPRSS2 cleavage sites.

These mutations have given the virus the ability to infect a wider variety of tissues in the body.

“In other words, SARS-CoV-2, unlike other, less pathogenic strains, can more efficiently use both proteases, TMPRSS2 and furin, to start the invasion of host cells,” says Maurizio Pellecchia, a professor of biomedical sciences at the University of California, Riverside, who led the research team.

“While TMPRSS2 is more abundant in the lungs, furin is expressed in other organs, perhaps explaining why SARS-CoV-2 is capable of invading and damaging multiple organs.”<<<


 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
@Mr._Clark

Nice posts. I'm not ignoring you – there is little I have to add to your latest posts. We're now seeing a flood of publications that are the product of real inquiry, and not hurried or misguided speculation.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Ninja
@Mr._Clark

Nice posts. I'm not ignoring you – there is little I have to add to your latest posts. We're now seeing a flood of publications that are the product of real inquiry, and not hurried or misguided speculation.
Good. Bout time we start seeing some headway.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Full Audioholic
Two doctors in Italy claim that the COVID 19 virus has weakened. I'm skeptical at this point, but I hope there is something to this.

>>>“In reality, the virus clinically no longer exists in Italy,” said Alberto Zangrillo, the head of the San Raffaele Hospital in Milan in the northern region of Lombardy, which has borne the brunt of Italy’s coronavirus contagion.

“The swabs that were performed over the last 10 days showed a viral load in quantitative terms that was absolutely infinitesimal compared to the ones carried out a month or two months ago,” he told RAI television. . . .
A second doctor from northern Italy told the national ANSA news agency that he was also seeing the coronavirus weaken.

“The strength the virus had two months ago is not the same strength it has today,” said Matteo Bassetti, head of the infectious diseases clinic at the San Martino hospital in the city of Genoa.

“It is clear that today the COVID-19 disease is different.”<<<

It looks like the statements by the doctors in Italy generated quite a bit of pushback:

>>>The comments, which received widespread attention following a Reuters report, prompted vigorous pushback from Michael Ryan, a top official with the World Health Organization, who said Monday during an online news conference that “we need to be exceptionally careful not to create a sense that all of a sudden the virus by its own volition has now decided to be less pathogenic. That is not the case at all.”

The consensus among other experts interviewed Monday is that the clinical findings in Italy likely do not reflect any change in the virus itself.<<<


 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
It looks like the statements by the doctors in Italy generated quite a bit of pushback:

>>>The comments, which received widespread attention following a Reuters report, prompted vigorous pushback from Michael Ryan, a top official with the World Health Organization, who said Monday during an online news conference that “we need to be exceptionally careful not to create a sense that all of a sudden the virus by its own volition has now decided to be less pathogenic. That is not the case at all.”

The consensus among other experts interviewed Monday is that the clinical findings in Italy likely do not reflect any change in the virus itself.<<<

Those statements by Italian doctors had no evidence to support them. They were ANECDOTAL.
I've been meaning to talk about what anecdotal evidence means among scientists. It's actually an insult to tell a scientist that his/her idea has only anecdotal evidence to support it. The implication is that if you had any scientific ability you would gather some real evidence, done by proper scientific method.

Wikipedia describes it well:

"When compared to other types of evidence, anecdotal evidence is generally regarded as limited in value due to a number of potential weaknesses, but may be considered within the scope of scientific method as some anecdotal evidence can be both empirical and verifiable, e.g. in the use of case studies in medicine. Other anecdotal evidence, however, does not qualify as scientific evidence, because its nature prevents it from being investigated by the scientific method. Where only one or a few anecdotes are presented, there is a larger chance that they may be unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise non-representative samples of typical cases."​
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
Today, the New England Journal of Medicine published the results of a clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine as prophylaxis (preventative) treatment post-exposure to Covid-19.

No big surprise anymore. Everyone, with the exception of the Hydroxy-Moron-in-Chief, expected that it would be worthless. But this is the non-anecdotal, scientific evidence, done by a double-blind, randomly-assigned clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine vs. placebo in 871 patients. Hydroxychloroquine had no effect at all in preventing Covid-19 disease when given after exposure.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638

The Abstract:
Among 821 asymptomatic participants, overall, 87.6% of the participants (719 of 821) reported a high-risk exposure to a confirmed Covid-19 contact. The incidence of new illness compatible with Covid-19 did not differ significantly between participants receiving hydroxychloroquine (49 of 414 [11.8%]) and those receiving placebo (58 of 407 [14.3%]); the absolute difference was −2.4 percentage points (95% confidence interval, −7.0 to 2.2; P=0.35). Side effects were more common with hydroxychloroquine than with placebo (40.1% vs. 16.8%), but no serious adverse reactions were reported.

After high-risk or moderate-risk exposure to Covid-19, hydroxychloroquine did not prevent illness compatible with Covid-19 or confirmed infection when used as postexposure prophylaxis within 4 days after exposure.
 
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Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Chief
Today, the New England Journal of Medicine published the results of a clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine as prophylaxis (preventative) treatment post-exposure to Covid-19.

No big surprise anymore. Everyone, with the exception of the Hydroxy-Moron-in-Chief, expected that it would be worthless. But this is the non-anecdotal, scientific evidence, done by a double-blind, randomly-assigned clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine vs. placebo in 871 patients. Hydroxychloroquine had no effect at all in preventing Covid-19 disease when given after exposure.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638

The Abstract:
Among 821 asymptomatic participants, overall, 87.6% of the participants (719 of 821) reported a high-risk exposure to a confirmed Covid-19 contact. The incidence of new illness compatible with Covid-19 did not differ significantly between participants receiving hydroxychloroquine (49 of 414 [11.8%]) and those receiving placebo (58 of 407 [14.3%]); the absolute difference was −2.4 percentage points (95% confidence interval, −7.0 to 2.2; P=0.35). Side effects were more common with hydroxychloroquine than with placebo (40.1% vs. 16.8%), but no serious adverse reactions were reported.

After high-risk or moderate-risk exposure to Covid-19, hydroxychloroquine did not prevent illness compatible with Covid-19 or confirmed infection when used as postexposure prophylaxis within 4 days after exposure.
No surprise then that the Hydroxymoron is dumping it on Brazil. I'm sure if it actually worked we'd keep it all for ourselves.

 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Well, I don't think there has been a president before who lied or mislead everyone so much as this one has and will. That is his nature.
Yep, the debt has been going up beyond the last 7 president, except for on short period when we had a surplus.
Not that I'm defending Trump, but when did the World economy shut down because of a pandemic during the time since the last surplus? The last three Presidents have been in office for events that caused worldwide disruption that brought governmental financial intervention at a level that had never been seen before. Remember, Congress writes the Bills, POTUS only signs or vetoes them.
 
John Parks

John Parks

Audioholic General
No surprise then that the Hydroxymoron is dumping it on Brazil. I'm sure if it actually worked we'd keep it all for ourselves.

A head scratcher for sure...
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Chief
Really disappointing to read: COVID vaccine execs hyped vague data to cash in $90M in stock, watchdog says:

"An anti-corruption watchdog is pressing the US Securities and Exchange Commission to investigate executives of the biotech company Moderna after they cashed in about $90 million in company shares days after promoting “positive" but vague data from its early COVID-19 vaccine clinical trial.​
The watchdog group, Accountable.US, called the timing of the trades suspicious and questioned whether executives coordinated their stock sales prior to the data release.​
In a letter to the SEC that was released to CBS Moneywatch, Accountable.US President Kyle Herrig wrote, "This misconduct was particularly egregious because it involved not only financial fraud and manipulation of the financial markets, but also because it exploited widespread fears surrounding the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.” In all, the executives' exploitation served to "boost the company's value, as well as their own bank accounts.​
“I strongly urge the SEC to investigate these matters," Herrig wrote."​
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Field Marshall
Really disappointing to read: COVID vaccine execs hyped vague data to cash in $90M in stock, watchdog says:

"An anti-corruption watchdog is pressing the US Securities and Exchange Commission to investigate executives of the biotech company Moderna after they cashed in about $90 million in company shares days after promoting “positive" but vague data from its early COVID-19 vaccine clinical trial.​
The watchdog group, Accountable.US, called the timing of the trades suspicious and questioned whether executives coordinated their stock sales prior to the data release.​
In a letter to the SEC that was released to CBS Moneywatch, Accountable.US President Kyle Herrig wrote, "This misconduct was particularly egregious because it involved not only financial fraud and manipulation of the financial markets, but also because it exploited widespread fears surrounding the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.” In all, the executives' exploitation served to "boost the company's value, as well as their own bank accounts.​
“I strongly urge the SEC to investigate these matters," Herrig wrote."​
the ugly side of Capitalism, sad .........
 

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