Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic General
Tariffs vs Coronavirus...So does this mean we are losing the trade war with China?
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Inside Trump’s frantic attempts to minimize the coronavirus crisis:

"Minutes before President Trump was preparing Wednesday to reassure a skittish nation about the coronavirus threat, he received a piece of crucial information: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had identified in California the first U.S. case of the illness not tied to foreign travel, a sign that the virus’s spread in the United States was likely to explode.​

But when Trump took to the lectern for a news conference intended to bring transparency to the spiraling global crisis, he made no explicit mention of the California case and its implications — and falsely suggested the virus might soon be eradicated in the United States.

“And again, when you have 15 people — and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero — that’s a pretty good job we’ve done,” he said.

Trump’s playing down of the California patient at his news conference underscores the administration’s slapdash and often misleading attempts to contain not just the virus, but also potential political damage from the outbreak — which has tanked financial markets, slowed global commerce and killed some 3,000 people worldwide, including the first U.S. death, announced Saturday."​
 
thrillcat

thrillcat

Audioholic Intern
He’s more concerned with saving the stock market (hence his re-election chances) than saving American lives.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
The masks aren't useless. N95 cut transmission for healthcare personal by 85% during the SARS epidemic. Masks also make you aware of touching your face.
P100 bayonet style respirators are even better, and quite a bit more comfortable. I also have full face masks with P100 filters. Not cheap, but if this thing takes off, might be worth it.

I'm concerned that the front line ICU will go down, and that my wife will called in to take care of Corona patients, and that there will be a shortage of masks in one month. Azar said they need 300 million. They have 42 million. 3m said they can make a million a day, so obviously they're gonna be short on masks soon. And antibiotics. And God knows what else.
Called in or not, she interacts with the people and things that interact with the ICU patients.

It will spread within the hospital.
 
R

RedCharles

Full Audioholic
Jerrylove,
I agree to a point.
Disciplined use of PPE does work. Half ass use of PPE does not work.

If the PPE did not work, they wouldn't be wearing it or desperate to acquire it.

The message that PPE doesn't work is government propaganda, and they're sending that message because they're critically short on PPE.

I haven't trusted those in authority since fighting in Iraq War II. Not everything the government says is lies, but they do lie, a lot.

Everything is following a predictable course. For those you who are late to the thread, I posted this about a week ago. If history is a guide...

"Focusing on the shortest term, local officials almost universally told half-truths or outright lies to avoid damaging morale and the war effort. They were assisted—not challenged—by the press, which although not censored in a technical sense cooperated fully with the government's propaganda machine."

"Routinely, as influenza approached a city or town—one could watch it march from place to place—local officials initially told the public not to worry, that public health officials would prevent the disease from striking them. When influenza first appeared, officials routinely insisted at first it was only ordinary influenza, not the Spanish flu. As the epidemic exploded, officials almost daily assured the public that the worst was over."

The Story of Influenza - The Threat of Pandemic Influenza - NCBI Bookshelf

Of course the government is going to screw this up and lie to us. It's predictable.

I think the CDC created their own test because the WHO test is only 70% accurate, but their own test is faulty as well. How predictable. Apollo 1. Kasserine Pass. And now there is likely uncontrolled, unknown community spread. I don't see how a some more funding and few more scientists and a few more dollars would have made a perfect Polymerase Chain Reaction test on the first try.

Democrats won WWII. Didn't fight it in the best way, should've went straight for Berlin, but they won in the end. Democrats bungled Vietnam. Democrats took the US to moon. Republicans gave us the EPA. Republicans won the Cold War. Republicans free trade policies devastated US industries, and Dems went along with it. Republicans and Democrats have given us an enormous national debt. Republicans and Democrats gave us 2008. Republicans gave us Iraq War II, and Democrats went along with it. Etc. Etc.

I'm not very impressed with the US government. And it's true, that the Democrat's philosophy, mindset would probably be better at fighting this epidemic. But the federal government's biggest accomplishments are over 50 years old. This disease is so contagious and stealthy, it is like trying to stop the tide with a sand castle.

You can fixate on Trump, but I don't think Obama or Hillary would handling this much better. This disease is very contagious. There are asymptomatic spreaders. The disease takes weeks to kill someone. People are infectious before they're sick and after they get better. I'm also certain, as I've posted before, that state, county and city responses will matter more than the federal response.

And ya, I think a better job could be done. South Korea is an example. And ya, I think this may doom Trump's reelection. And if the US gets this worse than other countries, Trump will deserve to be kicked out of office. But I really don't want this thread to be taken over by hating Trump and defending Trump. We should all come together, like 9/11. I saw twitter posts saying that they hope this disease will kill old Trump supporters. I saw Alex Jones say that this disease will kill urban liberals. It's sick. And I feel like we just vote against the other side with hate in our hearts, rather than simply voting for policies we agree with. I'm exhausted by it. I'm asking you. Please make this thread to be about Coronavirus 19, and not overly Trumpy.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
How President Trump and his administration is dealing with the crisis is certainly about the virus.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I haven't trusted those in authority since fighting in Iraq War II. Not everything the government says is lies, but they do lie, a lot.
That’s understandable. As you say, not everything they say is untrue, but never assume they don’t lie.
I think the CDC created their own test because the WHO test is only 70% accurate, but their own test is faulty as well. How predictable. Apollo 1. Kasserine Pass.
It’s interesting that you chose Apollo 1 and Kasserine Pass as examples of failures. I’m glad to see you know history. I’m only quibbling a little because you cast those examples as failures. Both examples were early and costly disasters that ultimately led to successful efforts. Both the Apollo Moon missions and the US Army’s North Africa campaign succeeded because someone learned useful lessons from those early mistakes and put them into use quick enough to benefit from them.

You made a few other historical and political references that I can’t ignore, even though they have nothing to do with COVID-19.
Democrats won WWII. Didn't fight it in the best way, should've went straight for Berlin, but they won in the end.
I don’t hear many people claim that Democrats won that war. Even the most isolationist GOP members were all in after Pearl Harbor. It was the USA and its Allies, Great Britain & the British Commonwealth (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, etc.), and the USSR. Even China helped some.

Going straight for Berlin was impossible until 1944.
Democrats bungled Vietnam.
Yes they did. But they did it the same way the Republicans bungled the 2nd Iraq War. They tried to use the military to achieve limited political results. They failed to use diplomacy. And their military plans were inadequate to achieve anything.
Republicans won the Cold War.
My biggest objection is with this statement. While it’s correct the Reagan & Bush were in office when the USSR finally collapsed, it’s just not true that Republicans can claim credit. There’s too much else that happened well before 1990. Since you seem to know some history, please learn more about the US policy that began to be formed during Truman’s years, the Containment Policy.

It was developed, and rather fully fleshed out, by W. Averell Harriman, and George F. Kennan. Harriman was US Ambassador in Moscow during and after WWII, and Kennan worked for him in Moscow, later becoming US Ambassador there as well.

Kennan’s famous Long Cable was the first effort to describe the problems dealing with Moscow as an ally during WWII, and how we might better handle them as adversaries without going to war again. The Cold War was really our response when the USSR stayed in those Eastern European countries it conquered from Germany. Basically, it involved surrounding and out gunning the USSR while pressing all their paranoia buttons. Russia, for a very long time, has suffered from fear and insecurity about being so easily invaded both from the west or the east. The Containment Policy took advantage of that, and forced the USSR into a long-term competition that it couldn't afford.

It was the application of Kennan’s & Harriman’s Containment Policy that led directly to the isolation and ultimate failure of the USSR. Although Republicans at first didn’t want to adapt it, they ultimately did, under Eisenhower, Nixon, and later Reagan & Bush.
… And ya, I think this [the ability or inability to react to COVID-19] may doom Trump's reelection. And if the US gets this worse than other countries, Trump will deserve to be kicked out of office. But I really don't want this thread to be taken over by hating Trump and defending Trump. We should all come together, like 9/11. I saw twitter posts saying that they hope this disease will kill old Trump supporters. I saw Alex Jones say that this disease will kill urban liberals. It's sick. And I feel like we just vote against the other side with hate in our hearts, rather than simply voting for policies we agree with. I'm exhausted by it. I'm asking you. Please make this thread to be about Coronavirus 19, and not overly Trumpy.
I couldn’t agree more with you! COVID-19 is a serious viral epidemic and a major public health threat. It isn’t political football.
 
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JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
The message that PPE doesn't work is government propaganda, and they're sending that message because they're critically short on PPE.
The world governments? Because this is from the WHO.

Of course, you know this secret that the governments are hiding because... um...

And I should trust *your* statement because... err...

And you won't be wrong, nor lie, because...

You see the problem?

I haven't trusted those in authority since fighting in Iraq War II. Not everything the government says is lies, but they do lie, a lot.
Especially under right-wing administrations (WMD in Iraq, Iran-Contra, literally everything from Trump's mouth). But the data from multiple national and international health agencies, as a whole, has been pretty accurate.

Of course, it must be compared to the support for the counter position which, at this moment, is "a guy on the internet".

"Routinely, as influenza approached a city or town—one could watch it march from place to place—local officials initially told the public not to worry, that public health officials would prevent the disease from striking them. When influenza first appeared, officials routinely insisted at first it was only ordinary influenza, not the Spanish flu. As the epidemic exploded, officials almost daily assured the public that the worst was over."
1) Year after year I have the government warning quite the opposite.
2) The only people saying anything like that now is the Trump administration... you are right. I don't trust the Trump administration.

I think the CDC created their own test because the WHO test is only 70% accurate, but their own test is faulty as well. How predictable. Apollo 1. Kasserine Pass. And now there is likely uncontrolled, unknown community spread. I don't see how a some more funding and few more scientists and a few more dollars would have made a perfect Polymerase Chain Reaction test on the first try.
Vaccines work.
Smoking causes cancer.
The Earth is round.

Democrats won WWII. Didn't fight it in the best way, should've went straight for Berlin, but they won in the end. Democrats bungled Vietnam. Democrats took the US to moon. Republicans gave us the EPA. Republicans won the Cold War. Republicans free trade policies devastated US industries, and Dems went along with it. Republicans and Democrats have given us an enormous national debt. Republicans and Democrats gave us 2008. Republicans gave us Iraq War II, and Democrats went along with it. Etc. Etc.
You are asserting too many flawed premises to dissemble... which is why I'm sure you are doing it.

You can fixate on Trump, but I don't think Obama or Hillary would handling this much better. This disease is very contagious. There are asymptomatic spreaders. The disease takes weeks to kill someone. People are infectious before they're sick and after they get better. I'm also certain, as I've posted before, that state, county and city responses will matter more than the federal response.
The CDC didn't experience the shortfalls under Obama that it has under Trump. Pandemics were treated more seriously.

You don't need to speculate. Obama encountered everything from Ebola to the swine flu.

But I really don't want this thread to be taken over by hating Trump and defending Trump. We should all come together, like 9/11.
Funny story: Trump said and still claims, falsely, that there were Muslims in New York publicly cheering 9/11.

I saw twitter posts saying that they hope this disease will kill old Trump supporters. I saw Alex Jones say that this disease will kill urban liberals. It's sick. And I feel like we just vote against the other side with hate in our hearts, rather than simply voting for policies we agree with. I'm exhausted by it. I'm asking you. Please make this thread to be about Coronavirus 19, and not overly Trumpy.
You saw it on Twitter.
You bring it here to this thread.
Then you pre-admonish others over what you just did?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
...
The Earth is round.
...Funny story: Trump said and still claims, falsely, that there were Muslims in New York publicly cheering 9/11. ...
A disc is also round. ;) :D

I think he claimed that he saw them in a city in New Jersey, not NY.

Yep, he makes lots of unsubstantiated claims. Insecurity will do that.
 
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Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
That’s understandable. As you say, not everything they say is untrue, but never assume they don’t lie.
It’s interesting that you chose Apollo 1 and Kasserine Pass as examples of failures. I’m glad to see you know history. I’m only quibbling a little because you cast those examples as failures. Both examples were early and costly disasters that ultimately led to successful efforts. Both the Apollo Moon missions and the US Army’s North Africa campaign succeeded because someone learned useful lessons from those early mistakes and put them into use quick enough to benefit from them.

You made a few other historical and political references that I can’t ignore, even though they have nothing to do with COVID-19.
I don’t hear many people claim that Democrats won that war. Even the most isolationist GOP members were all in after Pearl Harbor. It was the USA and its Allies, Great Britain & the British Commonwealth (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, etc.), and the USSR. Even China helped some.

Going straight for Berlin was impossible until 1944.
Yes they did. But they did it the same way the Republicans bungled the 2nd Iraq War. They tried to use the military to achieve limited political results. They failed to use diplomacy. And their military plans were inadequate to achieve anything.
My biggest objection is with this statement. While it’s correct the Reagan & Bush were in office when the USSR finally collapsed, it’s just not true that Republicans can claim credit. There’s too much else that happened well before 1990. Since you seem to know some history, please learn more about the US policy that began to be formed during Truman’s years, the Containment Policy.

It was developed, and rather fully fleshed out, by W. Averell Harriman, and George F. Kennan. Harriman was US Ambassador in Moscow during and after WWII, and Kennan worked for him in Moscow, later becoming US Ambassador there as well.

Kennan’s famous Long Cable was the first effort to describe the problems dealing with Moscow as an ally during WWII, and how we might better handle them as adversaries without going to war again. The Cold War was really our response when the USSR stayed in those Eastern European countries it conquered from Germany. Basically, it involved surrounding and out gunning the USSR while pressing all their paranoia buttons. Russia, for a very long time, has suffered from fear and insecurity about being so easily invaded both from the west or the east. The Containment Policy took advantage of that, and forced the USSR into a long-term competition that it couldn't afford.

It was the application of Kennan’s & Harriman’s Containment Policy that led directly to the isolation and ultimate failure of the USSR. Although Republicans at first didn’t want to adapt it, they ultimately did, under Eisenhower, Nixon, and later Reagan & Bush.
I couldn’t agree more with you! COVID-19 is a serious viral epidemic and a major public health threat. It isn’t political football.
for crying out loud, this thread is about the 'c' virus , now we got a freaking History debate !!! As for Berlin and 1944 , if the powers to be would have let Patton do his job.........
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
Looks like it's shown up in my county. Wish I knew what part.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
Welp.

EDIT: Video got delete...
 
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JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
Jerry,
I knew your response would be just like that lol. Quote. Snark. Quote. Snark. You're predictable too. :D

Here's some more info on the CDC test kit issue.

Red,

I knew your response would be just like that. Nothing related to what I said.

I didn't ask about issues with the test at the CDC. I asked why I should believe a poster on the internet over the WHO, CDC, NIH, etc and where your special knowledge (the part where you disagree with those institutions) comes from.

You've deflected.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
I hope they vanish like atheists in foxholes during a war.
Uuuuuweee, somewhat below the belt, some might say! ;-) I seem to remember reading about some losing their religion in the same holes during the same wars.
 
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H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Yeah yeah, Rush said just take a couple aspirin, right? :rolleyes:
And Gore said everybody on the coast would be dead by now. So what does either of those have to do with this? My point was that "The News" is doing what they always do... fishing for viewers. Capitalism at it's best, right? That's why I don't trust "The News". There has grown so much competition for viewers, they embellish and sensationalize whatever they think people will want to watch. It's not news, it's more like "reality TV". About as real as Survivor or The Bachelor. And that is why I laugh about people who quote The News like it's gospel.
 

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