Coronavirus/COVID-19 (No Politics)

H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
B-u-l-ls-h-i-t. If you want to freaking parrot Larry Kudlow's nonsense, this isn't the place. And if you want to thin the herd to get the Dow to 30,000 then go catch it yourself and help it along.

I'm sitting beside a coworker who just lost a 36-year old friend to this. I don't need to hear your crap. There's another thread where you can cry about "you people" badmouthing orange jesus.
Wow. (Who is Larry Kudlow?) It seems looking ahead is a toxic area. I'm simply asking how we recover from this. When do we open the barber shops? Restaurants? Theaters? I understand it's easier to Monday morning quarterback. Just thought someone here might have a thought or plan about the future.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Field Marshall
Wow. (Who is Larry Kudlow?) It seems looking ahead is a toxic area. I'm simply asking how we recover from this. When do we open the barber shops? Restaurants? Theaters? I understand it's easier to Monday morning quarterback. Just thought someone here might have a thought or plan about the future.
Listened to an interview with the head of Goldman Sachs this AM and he backs up with what most are saying. It won't be a 'light switch' , in all probability a slow progressional move determined by location hopefully combined with common sense.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
Wow. (Who is Larry Kudlow?) It seems looking ahead is a toxic area. I'm simply asking how we recover from this. When do we open the barber shops? Restaurants? Theaters? I understand it's easier to Monday morning quarterback. Just thought someone here might have a thought or plan about the future.
You really don't know who he is? He was the TV guy talking about the stock market. Now he is the economic adviser to the president without an economic degree of any kind. Frightening.
When do you want to open the barber shop?
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Chief
You really don't know who he is? He was the TV guy talking about the stock market. Now he is the economic adviser to the president without an economic degree of any kind. Frightening.
When do you want to open the barber shop?
He is trolling as he knows perfectly well who Kudlow is. I just wish he could stop pissing on the Corona virus threads.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
If you respond to herbu, you allow him to control which topics are discussed. As we have seen, the topics of interest to him tend to drag the discussion away from anything substantial or factual.

Ignore him.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
On the subject of the FDA carefully testing drugs for both safety & efficacy… when some people propose cutting corners because 'It's an emergency, what have you got to loose?', I see red. The FDA very carefully tests both new drugs and already approved drugs if they will be used in a different way than originally approved. Why? I quote (see the indented text) from Wikipedia at length on the history of two disasters involving medications that were not tested carefully enough.

In the early 1960s there was an infamous case of a drug, Thalidomide, (also see Thalidomide scandal) which was was first marketed in West Germany in 1957, where it was sold over-the-counter. When first released, it was promoted for anxiety, trouble sleeping, "tension", and morning sickness in pregnant women. While initially deemed to be safe in pregnancy, concerns regarding birth defects were noted in 1961 and the medication was removed from the market in Europe that year. The total number of people affected by use during pregnancy is estimated at 10,000, of which about 40% died around the time of birth. Those who survived had limb, eye, urinary tract, and heart problems. Its initial entry into the US market was prevented by Frances Kelsey at the FDA. The birth defects of thalidomide led to the development of greater drug regulation and monitoring in many countries.​
This disaster prompted many countries to introduce tougher rules for the testing and licensing of drugs, such as the Kefauver Harris Amendment (US), Directive 65/65/EEC1 (E.U.), and the Medicines Act 1968 (UK). In the US, the new regulations strengthened the FDA, among other ways, by requiring applicants to prove efficacy and to disclose all side effects encountered in testing. The FDA subsequently initiated the Drug Efficacy Study Implementation to reclassify drugs already on the market.​

Theralizumab
In 2006 there was another example, Theralizumab, aka TGN1412.

It was withdrawn from development after inducing severe inflammatory reactions in the first-in-human study by PAREXEL in London in March 2006. The developing company, TeGenero Immuno Therapeutics, went bankrupt later that year.​
In its first human clinical trials, it caused catastrophic systemic organ failures in the subjects, despite being administered at a supposed sub-clinical dose of 0.1 mg per kg; some 500 times lower than the dose found safe in animals. Six volunteers were hospitalized on 13 March 2006, at least four of these suffering from multiple organ dysfunction. Tentative opinions from an as-yet uncompleted inquiry suggest that the problems resulted from "unforeseen biological action in humans", rather than breach of trial protocols, and the case therefore has had important ramifications for future trials of potentially powerful clinical agents.​

The Theralizumab story goes on much longer in that Wikipedia link. Feel free to read it, and if you understand all that immunology, please fill me in about it. It's not an easy subject. The long term result of the Theralizumab story is that the FDA now can require non-human primate testing of drugs before they are tested clinically. The use of non-human primates is controversial… monkey testing.

The bottom line is that these laws and regulations are still in effect today, and I see no reason to ignore or by-pass them.
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
TP was the start, now this ...........

So the coronavirus pandemic won't cause a drop in the world's population as feared – but the opposite :D.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Full Audioholic
You can't lose either without it affecting the other.
Yeah, but if you do eat something that squirts out of a machine how would you know if it was supposed to have taste or smell? (That's a joke. Not a funny joke, but a joke)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
Yeah, but if you do eat something that squirts out of a machine how would you know if it was supposed to have taste or smell? (That's a joke. Not a funny joke, but a joke)
Don't really know what a no smell or taste would taste like. ;)
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
By the way, dogs have about 1/6 of the number of taste buds in humans, but what a dazzling sense of smell as compared to ours!
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Listened to an interview with the head of Goldman Sachs this AM and he backs up with what most are saying. It won't be a 'light switch' , in all probability a slow progressional move determined by location hopefully combined with common sense.
I agree that's what should be done. However, that means the answer(s) will be based on some judgement. I'm not sure Covid-19, and all its offspring, will ever be totally eradicated. And that means some people will still die AFTER the country begins turning back on. And that means no matter who makes the decision, half the country will say it was too soon.

So to avoid this predictable debate, I'm asking to explore the question now. Who is willing to say NOW what conditions/numbers YOU would require before starting to turn the country back on? Rather than criticism after the fact, let's try suggestions before the fact. Doc did that early on, and it turns out he was right. Frankly, I don't have a clue. I suppose somehow we should come up with metrics to compare the effects of Corona to other existing diseases, making allowances for elements like R0, mortality, etc. There are lots of diseases and other conditions for which we don't shut down the country. At what point does Covid-19 become one of them? And how do we decide, rather than just waiting for it and then complaining?
 

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