Club Polk's bashing Audioholics

[Tomorrow]

Sorry Sheepstar. You are wrong. Maybe a little brainwashed. Audioholics does not review products they don't get some kind of kickback from. I would bet anything on that. Wake up man. Seriously. How can you say Polks AREN'T good without reading a review? Do a search on Google and see what people say about Polks. I never said they are great, but they sure as hell aren't crap either. Speakers are personal preference. And Polks are quality made. You are fooled because big box stores sell them. i didn't buy mine there.

Ask yourself why does an internet magazine promote internet sale only products? I bought a Hsu sub because i read about it here. Who says it's the best? How did I know I was getting anything good when i ordered? Because a magazine told me. And by others who have been told it was good.

Your name is appropriate. A sheep follows the herd.

JC

In the ~one year I've been on Audioholics I've seen a lot of bias and bashing, but never by anyone, especially Gene or Clint regarding Polk speakers. On the other hand, your post is perhaps THE most biased, poorly backed load of manure thread I have seen on this forum.

First you insult Sheepstar, then you say later you didn't. Right. You're pure as the new-fallen snow. NOT. But let's ignore your personal attacks as Sheep can speak for himself. You want truth rather than falsehoods?! You want logic rather than broad assumptions?! You want proof rather than insinuation?! Then start with yourself JC.

Show us the Polk bashing posts. You like that post by the Polk guru? Show us where Gene called him a liar. Is that the "truth" you're looking for? Or is it in the baseless accusations of kickback? Yeah, everybody must do it...why?...because that's the way YOU'D do it?! You detest the bias here? Show us the multitude of professional reviews comparing Polks to other speakers over on the Polk site. Not there, are they? And what do you own? Oh my...Polks. Well then, you're not biased, are you?!

And you know, I'm not paid anything by anybody. Maybe I'll be the first...so that you REALLY have a REAL post to point to....I don't like Polks and never did. They're cheap sounding and made of cheap parts. (They are the best speakers sold by my local Radio Shack, however. So they have some real marketing savvy.) But buddy, attribute that to me, and not to this site, nor the mods here. In fact, I even selected my lousy JBL's over Polk. And you know what else? I've also not heard the reviewers bash JBL, but nor have they reviewed any. Would it make you happy if I cried and whined and complained and accused people of conspiracy against JBL and ME? Probably.

But I'm not paranoid....as you seem to constantly resonate.

 

[markw]

I agree with one of the posters at Polk's forum that we should read all forums and listen to different opinions. Audioholics is not the gospel. Sorry. I come here everyday and I have learned so much here.

From this post, apparantly not enough.

I have Polks. I am not saying they are the best.

I'm glad you like them. Different strokes for different folks. That's why there are so many different brands with different ideas on what a speaker should sound like.

I will say however, that this site pushes the products that pay their advertising. Just look at the banners. Axiom. Bluejean. DVI gear. Do I need to go on? Polk does not pay Clint or Gene anything , that is why they are not here.

Dude, who do you think pays for this site? Those advertisers pay for those banners. Do ya think they award them to their buddies for free and they run this site on good vibes and love?

Polks are sold in big box stores and you can say the sold out. Doesn't mean they suck. Polks are made with quality materials such as real wood. USA made. been around longer than many other manufacturers...There is more going on behind the scenes here than any of us know and if you don't believe that, you seriously need to pull your head out of the sand.

And ...your point is? Whoever put down Polk? Who said they were junk? Yamaha snd Denon are sold in big box stores as well. Do they advertise here? Are their products reviewed?

I started a link a few months back asking if Audioholics was brainwashing us. Clint laughed it off and never answered the question.

Be glad clint has a sense of humor. Why do you think we are being brainwashed? Drugs in our drinks? Where are they misleading anyone?

I call on Clint or Gene, once and for all, to come clean and tell us what is so bad about Polk Audio?

Again, what did they ever say about Polk, either good or bad?

Please don't say you can't single out one manufacturer from another because you do. Constantly. This is all about the old mighty advertising dollar, and if it's not, prove it.

Welcome to the big city, kid. Advertising pays for this site. Those advertising banners paid for you to be able to publicly showcase your ignorance here.

Now, if you're saying that Polk submitted products for review and they were turned down because they didn't fork over the green you might have a case, but you better be really, really sure your ducks are in a row before making a statement like that.

 

[Rob Babcock]

One last note- while that may have been on the Polk forum, it clearly isn't a person speaking on their behalf in an official capacity. It was an overzealous fanboy, and I doubt it means anything beyond his own sour grapes. It's no reflection on Polk.

TAS and Stereophile have been effusive with their praise of the newer Polk monitors, so obviously the mainstream press likes them. Most of the ruckus is raised by owners who feel their honor or egos are threatened by people "dissing" their choice in speakers. Who hasn't leapt to the defense of a pet brand before?

 

[markw]

What happens inthe Polk forums stays in the Polk forums.

One last note- while that may have been on the Polk forum, it clearly isn't a person speaking on their behalf in an official capacity. It was an overzealous fanboy, and I doubt it means anything beyond his own sour grapes. It's no reflection on Polk.

TAS and Stereophile have been effusive with their praise of the newer Polk monitors, so obviously the mainstream press likes them. Most of the ruckus is raised by owners who feel their honor or egos are threatened by people "dissing" their choice in speakers. Who hasn't leapt to the defense of a pet brand before?

The fanboys can have their say on their site. What galls me is this putz here that wants to say, well, "questionable" things pertaining to the integrity of the motivators of this site.

If this guy feels so strongly as to publicly castigate the management of this site, I feel it's only fair he shows some proof to back up his venomous statements.

If not, then he should stop posting here and get back to his high school homework. Heaven knows he made it abundantly clear he's in need of a real education.

 

[Audioholics]

most reviewer's require that the manufacturer send them the product that they want reviewed for free & also require that the manufacturer allow them to keep the product after the review,there are many reviewer's who make their living re selling the gear that was submitted to them for review,this might not be the case with the reviewer's here but it's rampant in the industry.

Most reviewer's, huh? Sounds like a very uncertain and roundabout way to make money. I would guess that smaller hobbyist sites are the only ones who could put up with such a low income, task-heavy business model. I personally don't have the time or inclination to resell gear online. Most people haven't heard of the stuff anyway.

I have a Yamaha LPX-510 in my reference room. I reviewed the products and loved it. Then I BOUGHT it. I will probably buy the RX-V2600 to use as a pre-pro if it does well.

Reviewers do have certain advantages, we often get industry accommodation pricing. I get that regardless of the products I review or the ratings they get - at least for the companies that honor this type of pricing, which is mostly everyone. I don't doubt there are reviewers or magazines that get free gear in exchange for favorable reviews - we're just not one of them. We can't be as it would trash our credibility.

As for the rest of the statements in this thread. You can insult us all you like for not reviewing your favorite speakers (actually you can't - I'm about fed up), but it would be nice if you'd consider the following:

• Audioholics has never officially said anything negative about Polk Audio that I am aware of
• Polk Audio is welcome to contact us about reviews - they haven't
• Polk Audio is not the only company we don't review here and I would think there are tons of decent manufacturers not represented. None of them, or their fans, however, have come here to needlessly bash or accuse us of bias
• Our schedule is busy and we dont have time to run after manufacturers regarding product reviews. If you want to be productive, send an email to them or us requesting we review a particular new product - what you are doing is entirely transparent and unproductive
• Polk Audio's forums (at least that linked thread) appear hostile towards us for some reason, which is odd since I don't recall having ever lumped them in with anyone or inferred that we don't think they make decent products
• Most of the nagatives I've read here is unsubstantiated opinion put forth by obviously biased individuals. Get your facts straight or email us if you have a question. I don't pay for these forums to let people recklessly insult us without cause or proof.

your best bet is to hear thing's before you base any opinion on any gear no matter the brand or cost or who reviewed it.

Most sensible thing I've heard in this entire thread.

So, to summarize future posting options in this thread: 1) Drop it. 2) Provide objective proof, or 3) Continue and get banned. Not a threat, just a common sense statement from someone fed up with senseless accusations from people who aren't really interested in results so much as blowing off some apparent steam.

 

[louhamilton]

Listen guys, I think there are some people with some thin skin here. This is the Internet. If you don't like what someone says, leave. Don't come back. Also, if you are naive enough to believe everything on the internet, then I have a list of things:

To One and all of my Good E-mail buds:

As the holidays approach, my heartfelt appreciation goes out to all of you who have taken the time and trouble to send me forwards" over the past 12 months. Thank you for making me feel safe, secure, blessed, and wealthy.

Extra thanks to whoever sent me the one about rat crap in the glue on envelopes 'cause I now have to go get a wet towel every time I need to seal an envelope.

Also, I scrub the top of every can I open for the same reason.

Because of your concern I no longer drink Coca Cola because it can remove toilet stains.

I no longer drink Pepsi or Dr Pepper since the people who make these products are atheists who refuse to put "Under God" on their cans.

I no longer use Saran wrap in the microwave because it causes cancer.

I no longer check the coin return on pay phones because I could be pricked with a needle infected with AIDS.

I no longer use cancer-causing deodorants even though I smell like a water buffalo on a hot day.

I no longer go to shopping malls because someone might drug me with a perfume sample and rob me.

I no longer receive packages from nor send packages by UPS or Fed Ex since they are actually Al Qaeda in disguise.

I no longer answer the phone because someone will ask me to dial a number for which I will get a phone bill with calls to Jamaica, Uganda, Singapore, and Uzbekistan.

I no longer eat KFC because their "chickens" are actually horrible mutant freaks with no eyes or feathers.

I no longer have any sneakers -- but that will change once I receive my free replacement pair from Nike.

I no longer have to buy expensive cookies from Neiman Marcus since I now have their recipe.

I no longer worry about my soul because at last count I have 363,214 angels looking out for me.

Thanks to you, I have learned that God only answers my prayers if I forward an e-mail to seven of my friends and make a wish within five minutes.

I no longer have any savings because I gave it to a sick girl who is about to die in the hospital (for the 1,387,258th time)

I no longer have any money at all - but that will change once I receive the $15,000 that Microsoft and AOL are sending me for participating in their special email tracking program.

Yes, I want to thank you so much for looking out for me that I will now return the favor!

If you don't send this e-mail to at least 144,000 people in the next 7 minutes, a large pigeon with a wicked case of diarrhea will land on your head at 5:00 PM (CDT) this afternoon. I know this will occur because it actually happened to a friend of my next-door neighbor's ex-mother-in-law's second husband's cousin's beautician....

Opinions are like a******es. Everyone has one and they all stink.

Hope we can just get back to why we are all hear. Helping others with their HT & audio needs.

-Lou

 

[Audioholics]

how about reviewer's who use several different model #'s to describe the same peice of gear & also give several different spec's for the same peice of gear,or who write a review that is barely coherent but they proclaim the gear being reviewed to be terrible,or how about review's with negative statement's based upon assumption's with comment's then being backed up by assumption's ahead of easily checked fact's.

We received a PM about this from you. Here is the supposed "review":

http://www.audioholics.com/ces/ces2004/CES2004Coverage.html

A couple of notes:

1. This is NOT a review, it's live coverage of a McIntosh CES demo
2. The writer grabbed the wrong pic for the product he is talking about (his live pic didn't come out and was blurry so he grabbed a stock pic)
3. The marketing person at the show gave out the wrong specs (several times in fact)
4. This person isn't even writing for us any more, not that this even matters since this is more or less an editorial of a CES demo
5. Nothing that you found "wrong" with this piece affects the subjective opinion or conclusions written about.
6. We do not give out "Worst of Show" awards anymore as we feel it is in bad taste

Just to reiterate - you are very new to the site if you thought this was a review - that's OK, but please take some time and glance around the site before writing paragraphs about your concerns with us or our process

PS. Here is the coverage we posted on McIntosh at this year's CES:

http://www.audioholics.com/ces/CESspeakers/McIntoshXRT2k.php

 

[highfihoney]

im relaying my discussion with clint about this so nobody think's that i was coerced in any way by him or anybody else.

ok,i spoke to clint last evening & all he asked me was to point out the review to him,nothing more was said on his part,i sent him a link to review & told him the error's that i found concerning the model number's & the reference's to power rating's that did not match the model number's given,i also stated that the statement's made about the possibility of deciet on the part of the manufacturer were unfounded because the person making the claim's never checked the actual weight's of the amplifier's.

clint's response to me was to point out that what i was calling a review was infact live coverage & not a review(fair enough)& that the person who wrote it no longer worked for audioholic's,there was nothing more said on either of our part's.

i still stand behind my comment's when i said the statement's given by the person in the editorial in question were misleading & confusing due to a lack of information,it turn's out that the manufacturer was responsible for the wrong spec sheet & helped in creating what i call a incoherent review but i also believe that before anybody publishes negative comment's they should double check the fact's,something that i should have done also.

as i have said several time's throught all of this at no time was i implying any wrong doing on the part of anybody but i was using it as an example as to how review's can be misleading for many reason's & that everybody should not just blindly trust any review.

if the way i wrote any of my statement's came off like i was accusing clint or anybody involved in wrong doing then i publicly apologize to clint as that was not my intent.

my comment's about reviewer's making large profit's from reselling review gear were not directed against any reviewer at audioholic's,i intentionally chose a brand of gear that does not advertise here (rowland research) but does infact heavily advertise elsewhere & the reviewer's do keep the gear.

my comment's were not directed at clint or any other person at audioholic's but were intended to show how flawed many review's really are & to once again trust your ear's above review's or the lack of review's(referencing polk)if any of these comment's came off as an accusation then once again i publicly apologize to clint as that was not my intent.

all of my other comment's either directly relate to the link given to the polk thread or comment's made in this post & my intent was that there is no one brand of gear that is the best,it's all about what sound's best to each person,nothing more.

the reason i would not list the review or editorial is that after posting my comment's i realized that they would be taken not as i intended so i wanted to give everybody a chance to look into this & post their side.

if there is anything that i have not cleared up then somebody please say so.

 

[shokhead]

So it sounds like there was nothing more then a mistake and others are calling it a bashing?

 

[Matt34]

....and I thought the SVS/HSU fanboys were bad.

 

[RLA]

Now, if you're saying that Polk submitted products for review and they were turned down because they didn't fork over the green you might have a case

I can tell you this would never happen!
It’s a little hard to read this thread. I just completed two recent reviews for product that I purchased and am now sitting on. Guess I need to take business 101 again

 

[Johnny Canuck]

I have had a chance this morning to read some of the responses. Needless to say this thread got very interesting.
Now if I may:

1) post # 26 by hifihoney pretty much summed up my thoughts but was expressed in a much more intelligent appropriate manner. I need to go back to school I guess.

2)I can not believe how many thinned skinned people are here and this includes the moderators. Not once did I insult anybody. My "sheep" comment was to show how people can all be influenced to follow someone else. I called out on the moderators to say ANYTHING about the biggest selling speaker company in the world possibly and they did finally. All i was aking for.

3)I have Polks but this does not mean I am a Polk fan per se. If you look back at the posts i have made in over the past year-2 years, a long time here so do not doubt my knowledge, you will see that I think i could have done better for my money. That is not the point. The point is Polks are not as bad as they are made out to be here and yes, I read constantly here people thinking they are bad and compare them to Bose. EVERYONE who hears my system at my house is awestruck. But, I am a perfectionist and doubt my purchases which is a bad habit. I do not like to read that Polk is crap after i have spent $2000 on speakers. Would I buy Polk again, maybe not. But they sure as hell aren't crap.

4) I like my Hsu sub but how was i ever to know it was a s good as brand B when you can't compare because it can not be auditioned first. you must take someone else's word for it. And 30 day guarantee??? Sure, after you repack it, lug this 100 pound bohemeth to the post office and pay the enormous shipping costs back...right. I don't know if it is as good as brand B but i like it. I guess i can take comfort knowing EVERYONE here thinks Hsu is good so it must be.

5)Clint stated "Polk is the better brands sold in a big box store" or something like that. First thing i have heard here from the experts about Polk. To all those who say Polk never gets bashed here, there were at least 5 bashings in this thread alone. Probably by guys who believe everything they read too much. Are we all to believe that if something is sold internet direct (ie Axiom) it has to be better than something sold in a big box store (Polk). Again, i did not buy mine there. Wouldn't buy batteries from BestBuy never mind speakers. because of their service not their products.

6)Buckeye stated he opened up an RTI4 and it was built as good as any speaker he has seen. Was there paper drivers in there? any plastic? Might not be as good as a $2000 B and W speaker, but for $400 not bad hey?

Bottom line is we all hear more around here about the products that are advertised here. Most, not all, assume these are the best products. that's what advertising does. Coke and Pepsi are very similar and advertising is the main difference people choose one over the other. My point with Polk is that they are never reviewed here and I got a lesson why not. Clint and Gene have never singled out Pok good or bad. it's the forum members who have and I think it's because they see and hear so much about other brands like Axiom.

Maybe somewhere in there i am trying to justify to myself that I didn't get ripped off.

I ordered Bluejean cable and heard absolutely no difference and sent them back. i tried them because of advertising here. it worked.

 

[shokhead]

We also here about non-advertised products around here,mostly them. Maybe Polks are not talked about as much as others and i'm sure there's lots of others not talked about to. So? I dont think most belive that acvertised products are the best,they are just what they are,advertised products. S&V mag has never done a review on SVS subs as far as i know. Why? Beats me but i'm not going sleepless over it. Do i think its because they dont advertise in the mag,no. I am abit confused by some of your thinking.

 

[Sheep]

I have had a chance this morning to read some of the responses. Needless to say this thread got very interesting.
Now if I may:

1) post # 26 by hifihoney pretty much summed up my thoughts but was expressed in a much more intelligent appropriate manner. I need to go back to school I guess.

2)I can not believe how many thinned skinned people are here and this includes the moderators. Not once did I insult anybody. My "sheep" comment was to show how people can all be influenced to follow someone else. I called out on the moderators to say ANYTHING about the biggest selling speaker company in the world possibly and they did finally. All i was aking for.

3)I have Polks but this does not mean I am a Polk fan per se. If you look back at the posts i have made in over the past year-2 years, a long time here so do not doubt my knowledge, you will see that I think i could have done better for my money. That is not the point. The point is Polks are not as bad as they are made out to be here and yes, I read constantly here people thinking they are bad and compare them to Bose.

4) I like my Hsu sub but how was i ever to know it was a s good as brand B when you can't compare because it can not be auditioned first. you must take someone else's word for it. And 30 day guarantee??? Sure, after you repack it, lug this 100 pound bohemeth to the post office and pay the enormous shipping costs back...right. I don't know if it is as good as brand B but i like it.

5)Clint stated "Polk is the better brands sold in a big box store" or something like that. First good thing i have heard here from the experts about Polk. To all those who say Polk never gets bashed here, there were at least 5 bashings in this thread alone. Probably by guys who believe everything they read too much.

6)Buckeye stated he opened up an RTI4 and it was built as good as any speaker he has seen. Was there paper drivers in there? any plastic? Might not be as good as a $2000 B and W speaker, but for $400 not bad hey?

Bottom line is we all hear more around here about the products that are advertised here. Most, not all, assume these are the best products. that's what advertising does. Coke and Pepsi are very similar and advertising is the main difference people choose one over the other. My point with Polk is that they are never reviewed here and I got a lesson why not. Clint and Gene have never singled out Pok good or bad. it's the forum members who have and I think it's because they see and hear so much about other brands like Axiom.

Maybe somewhere in there i am trying to justify to myself that I didn't get ripped off.

I ordered Bluejean cable and heard absolutely no difference and sent them back. i tried them because of advertising here. it worked.

Your name is appropriate. A sheep follows the herd.

If this isn't a personal attack I don't know what is. Your directly referred to me.

What cables did you compare the Blue Jeans ones to? They are not supposed to give you better bass extension or liquid midrange, they are supposed to do what the other brands do, for less money.

You say your not a polk fanboy, but you then say polks are not as bad as they are made out to be. If someone doesn't like Polk's, they are intitled to their opinion. I could say I hate Ascend Acoustics, and its my opinion, and no one has the right to say "no your wrong".

Theres nothing wrong with being a fanboy, I'm an Energy/Yamaha fanboy. That doesn't mean I have to go around forcing it apon people, and saying all the other brands are crap. Or whinning about why they don't get reviews or advertising. I've asked about Energy reviews in a civilized manner, and I got an answer.

SheepStar

 

[majorloser]

I was not insulting you directly Sheepstar, just saying how easily we can all be influenced and we need to take all reviews into consideration.


JC

It looked like an insult to me!

 

[Johnny Canuck]

My point about Bluejeans is I ordered them from what i read here and was proving how advertising works. They were good quality, good for the money. I was expecting improvement and never saw it. a lesson learned.

This thread has gone in a direction is what not supposed to. it's not name bashing and i am not a Polk fanboy so you can drop that. I have stated many times here, as a reputable poster and forum member, that I bought Polk before I was educated. That is still not to say they are pieces of junk. A set of RTI 12's that cost $1700 would make 99.9999% of the world very very happy.

JC

 

[markw]

My point about Bluejeans is I ordered them from what i read here and was proving how advertising works. They were good quality, good for the money. I was expecting improvement and never saw it. a lesson learned.

From your last two statements, it's obvious you haven't been keeping up wit the class.

Do you even know what lesson was learned? Hint.. it was reiterated by another not a post or two before this one

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Don't question my intelligence mark. My posts have gone way, way over your head. You get someone else who might agree with you and you are all of a sudden a smartguy.

 

[markw]

Don't question my intelligence mark. My posts have gone way, way over your head. You get someone else who might agree with you and you are all of a sudden a smartguy.

Now that's funny. I don't question your intelligence. Thanks to your posts in this thread alone I'm pretty sure I know exactly where it stands. ...and so do most others.

And, thanks for the compliment. I've been struggling for "smartguy" status in this field ever since I built my first tube amps in the early sixties.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

this thread seems divided down the middle from what i see. Just the ones who have jobs aren't here right now to say anything at this particular moment.

But oh, i saw previously that you thought i was just a cheese eating high school student. Think again.

Someone of your age and intelligence, as you so cleverly tried to show, should know how advertising can manipulate.

JC