Classe, Mark Levinson, Plinius...

[Seth=L]

Yep, refusal is futile

There have been some DBTs of similar hi-end and so called mid fi: no audible difference levels matched within design limits.

Why would there be? Are the specs so far different?

Class D vs Class A or Class A/B?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Class D vs Class A or Class A/B?

Why will that make a difference? The ones that I know was a Class A, I think, and a/b.
A good class D is just that, a good amp.

 

[Seth=L]

Why will that make a difference? The ones that I know was a Class A, I think, and a/b.
A good class D is just that, a good amp.

Class A amplifiers are more linear than Class A/B amplifiers correct? And also Class A/B amplifiers more linear than Class D? My previous experiance with Class D amplifiers is that they don't sound the same as Class A/B, and I have never used a Class A amplifier in my home.

I could be wrong, but someone please clue me in.

 

[mazersteven]

I have a Rotel 1095 which is a great amp, but my next amp will be something more like a Emotiva...

I'm not here to start a flame war because that is where half of these thread go. But are you stating that Emotiva is better quality then Rotel?

And if so, why?

 

[mazersteven]

If I ever get a dedicated home theater with projection, conventional speakers, separates. I don't know what pre-pro I would get. McIntosh, Lexicon, Anthem.

But depending on the speakers I would love to purchase some

Bryston 2 channel amps.

http://www.bryston.ca/4bsst_m.html

or

McIntosh

http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?hid=1&id=14&cat=Power+Amplifiers&prodid=1055&product=MC252

I would also like to play with some tube amps, but really haven't researched that avenue yet.

 

[PENG]

Do you mean Class D (switching amplifiers)?


While the Behringer is great for the money it lacks heft. The transformer is decent size, the capacitors are modest for even mid-level receivers and has a decent output stage. Most of the amplifier's headroom has to come from the transformer, as the capacitors could be drained quickly.

Don't underestimate the importance of the capacitors. The transformer, no matter how big, cannot do too much when it is fed from a 15A or even 20A circuit. A 20A circuit will get you 2400 VA at 120V assuming there is zero volt drop (there is always some voltage drop). That would translate into perhaps a maximum of around 1200W for the speakers, that is 600WPC for stereo.

 

[Seth=L]

Don't underestimate the importance of the capacitors. The transformer, no matter how big, cannot do too much when it is fed from a 15A or even 20A circuit. A 20A circuit will get you 2400 VA at 120V assuming there is zero volt drop (there is always some voltage drop). That would translate into perhaps a maximum of around 1200W for the speakers, that is 600WPC for stereo.

Oh I appreciate capacitors more so than you think. I love opening up my electronic gear and looking for capacitors and I like to have plenty of it. The capacitors in the A500, while lean, should get it by. If it where me I would want to put more capacitors in it because 6600uF per channels seems pretty wimpy.

 

[fmw]

Class A amplifiers are more linear than Class A/B amplifiers correct? And also Class A/B amplifiers more linear than Class D? My previous experiance with Class D amplifiers is that they don't sound the same as Class A/B, and I have never used a Class A amplifier in my home.

I could be wrong, but someone please clue me in.

Here's a link can read about output transistor biasing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_amplifier

In a nutshell, A amps are biased to be running all the time, A/B amps are biased to be on more than half the time and D amps are pulse modulated (on and off constantly.) The difference shows up in efficiency (power output to power input) with A/B being more efficient that A and D being more efficient than A/B.

Think of an A amp as a faucet that runs all the time. When you want a drink you put your glass under it and fill it and then pull it away while the water continues to run. The A/B amp would only turn on and run while you are filling the glass and would turn off afterward. The D amp would be like a pump handle pumping squirts of water into the glass. That's an oversimplification but it might help picture it.

 

[davidtwotrees]

FMW. What an excellent description! I'm a pretty right brained male and technical electonic talk can numb me rather quickly. Your post described those three amplifier types to me perfectly!

Just to weigh in on hi end stuff....imho....on looks alone I think the Classe stuff is beautiful- the carcass milled from a solid billet of aluminum. Krell stuff always looks like it should be riveted in a cockpit. And the mac stuff I've seen in person reminded me of 60's dashboards from the Motor City.
I have seen some Manley Labs tube gear that was beautiful.......hooked to Joseph Audio speaks with Nordost Vallhalla cables.

 

[mazersteven]

Just to weigh in on hi end stuff....imho....on looks alone I think the Classe stuff is beautiful- the carcass milled from a solid billet of aluminum.

That is what I hate the most about Classe. There look is to Contemporary for me.

 

[PENG]

If it where me I would want to put more capacitors in it because 6600uF per channels seems pretty wimpy.

It certainly is, but for all the talks about this amp lately I am really surprised it does not have double that amount.

Then again, as long as it is the only thing plugged into a 15A circuit, there will be plenty of headroom (in terms of power supply) for a 200WX2 amp. I was just trying to remind people of the limitations at the source.

 

[Highlander]

In terms only of looks, since I know nothing about the differences, if any, between Classe, Mac, Bryston etc, I like the Mac gear. I like the blue backlit olde-style meter displays. I like the Gothic font the name is written in too.

 

[Highlander]

In a nutshell, A amps are biased to be running all the time, A/B amps are biased to be on more than half the time and D amps are pulse modulated (on and off constantly.)...Think of an A amp as a faucet that runs all the time. When you want a drink you put your glass under it and fill it and then pull it away while the water continues to run. The A/B amp would only turn on and run while you are filling the glass and would turn off afterward. The D amp would be like a pump handle pumping squirts of water into the glass.

Am I correct in thinking that caps act as temporary storage for current, to be drawn upon by the amp during dynamic passages in an audio performance? If so, does this mean that Class A amps have no need for caps since 'the water's always running'?

 

[jaxvon]

I'd probably get Bryston because they are designed to be workhorse amps and come with a 20-year warranty. I want something that is going to work at spec every single time I go to turn it on. If I couldn't spend Bryston money? I'd just find some good pro amps from Crown, QSC, Behringer, etc.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Class A amplifiers are more linear than Class A/B amplifiers correct? And also Class A/B amplifiers more linear than Class D? My previous experiance with Class D amplifiers is that they don't sound the same as Class A/B, and I have never used a Class A amplifier in my home.

I could be wrong, but someone please clue me in.

Well, if one can tell an audible difference under bias controlled condition and consistently pointed to one class of amps over another, your premise has merit. But, since that is not the case, who cares how linear one amp may be over another if you cannot hear it.

 

[PENG]

Am I correct in thinking that caps act as temporary storage for current, to be drawn upon by the amp during dynamic passages in an audio performance? If so, does this mean that Class A amps have no need for caps since 'the water's always running'?

"water" is always running in either cases except that in class AB the current flow has to switch from one output (e.g. transistor) device to the other, resulting in crossover distortion. Crossover distortion does not exist in class A because the output device is always on. The capacitors you referred to are used in the power supply to filter out unwanted high frequencies and provide energy storage. They are needed for class A amps for the same reasons they are needed in class AB amps.

 

[PENG]

I think all 3 amps are high end enough that I won't be able to tell the difference in their sound quality. As such, I would, like others, go for the look. The Classe would look good initially but in the long run I think Mark levinson is the best looking one.

 

[rglass]

AMP for B&W 802D

I am close to purchasing a pair of 802D's. The 802D's will replace a pair of Nautilus 803's I purchased back around 1999. I use a Proceed AMP5 125W a channel to power my system. I also have a Velodyne sub I purchased at the same time.

I like the Proceed amp. This amp is a Mark Levinson design. Google Proceed AMP5 and you will find some reviews.

It has 125W into 8 ohms and 250 in 4 ohms.

I am wondering if I need to purchase a 2 channel amp for the 802D's. I auditioned the 802D's on both McIntosh and Classe amplifiers and I preferred the Classe. I believe it was a CA-2200.

Will the Classee (or something else?) be that much an improvement over the Procced?

I know I will have to upgrade my center channel to a HTM2D, but I don't think I will do that right away.

Oh, the sub. I am not sure I will need a sub with the 802D's. What do you think?

Uses:
Music - Jazz, female vocals, rock, classical
Home theater

Other equipment:
Dennon 3910 DVD
Lexicon MC-8B (B-balanced XLR connections)
Velodyne HGS15BG
Nautilus SCM1 for rear speakers
Nautilus HTM2 center channel

 

[Seth=L]

I am close to purchasing a pair of 802D's. The 802D's will replace a pair of Nautilus 803's I purchased back around 1999. I use a Proceed AMP5 125W a channel to power my system. I also have a Velodyne sub I purchased at the same time.

I like the Proceed amp. This amp is a Mark Levinson design. Google Proceed AMP5 and you will find some reviews.

It has 125W into 8 ohms and 250 in 4 ohms.

I am wondering if I need to purchase a 2 channel amp for the 802D's. I auditioned the 802D's on both McIntosh and Classe amplifiers and I preferred the Classe. I believe it was a CA-2200.

Will the Classee (or something else?) be that much an improvement over the Procced?

I know I will have to upgrade my center channel to a HTM2D, but I don't think I will do that right away.

Oh, the sub. I am not sure I will need a sub with the 802D's. What do you think?

Uses:
Music - Jazz, female vocals, rock, classical
Home theater

Other equipment:
Dennon 3910 DVD
Lexicon MC-8B (B-balanced XLR connections)
Velodyne HGS15BG
Nautilus SCM1 for rear speakers
Nautilus HTM2 center channel

How large is the listening room? The 802s are pretty efficient and the Proceed should have no trouble with impedance on the 802s. The 802s can go extremely loud if given tons of power, so unless your room is extremely large or you like to turn the volume up so high it does instant damage to your ears the Proceed should be fine.

 

[rglass]

AMP for B&W 802D

My room is about 18x22 and I set about 10 feet away from the speakers.

I'm not one to listen to them at a real loud volume.

Ray