Center channel expertise required

[mazersteven]

the format war isn't really an issue. this player gets you 1080p output on a normal DVD.

So does the Oppo. Just doesn't HD-DVD. But at half the price.

 

[velcrometer]

the format war isn't really an issue. this player gets you 1080p output on a normal DVD, has incredible sound (the main priority if I remember right) will play a CD, and costs half of what a similar Denon or Blue Ray unit would.

The fact it does HD-DVD is simply a bonus. You get 5 free in a rebate, but you don't have to buy any more if you don't want.

Leprkon, I'm ignorant...are you saying that the DVD player has "incredible sound"? I thought the receiver and the speakers made all the difference? Does the DVD player run through the receiver?

 

[Leprkon]

So does the Oppo. Just doesn't HD-DVD. But at half the price.

yeah, but, there's always that little "upgrade by software" to the next DTS or Dolby that you get with the Toshiba. I'll still be rocking to Dolby Truest Bluest Maximust while you buy player after player to keep up with the new technology.

 

[mazersteven]

yeah, but, there's always that little "upgrade by software" to the next DTS or Dolby that you get with the Toshiba. I'll still be rocking to Dolby Truest Bluest Maximust while you buy player after player to keep up with the new technology.

Or just purchase a PS3 and have BluRay and games while your sitting waiting for more movies to be released, I'll be playing games. For the same money. LOL

 

[Leprkon]

Or just purchase a PS3 and have BluRay and games while your sitting waiting for more movies to be released, I'll be playing games. For the same money. LOL

actually, I'm paying for the new hardwood floors, and won't be buying anything for three or four months.

looks like you win this round !

but I'll be back !

 

[mazersteven]

looks like you win this round !

but I'll be back !

We are all winners my friend. Gaining knowledge with every round.

 

[ChrisJam]

PROBLEM: My main goal in getting surround sound is to help my husband hear the dialogue! He can't hear clearly when there's any background noise in a movie, it makes the voices harder to distinguish. I'm constantly 'translating' for him & he's only 46! <snip>

No, I don't know what I'm doing.

BUDGET: $1500-$2500 for speaker system, receiver & DVD player. Do I need special wires/cables, powerstrips, etc? $2500 is my max.

<snip>

Dear Velcrometer.

First, nice nickname!

Second, a better DVD player probably won't appreciably enhance your DVD sound. But that assumes that you have a decent preamp/amp or a decent AVR. Even if your DVD player is les than great, if you send its signal to a decent receiver or pre-amp, you'll be OK. The receiver/pre-amp will then decode the digital signal.

You can find a great AVR for under $300 these days, plus shipping. Do a Froogle search for a Yamaha AV-R659. The newer model, the 661, which'll run about $100 more, but has better HDMI, is great, too. Unless you're building a really high-end system, either of these AVRs will be all you need.

For movie dialog, the center channel is the most important one. It handles virtually all movie dialog, and about 50-60% of all movie sound. Of the remaining percentage, most will be played by the left and right main speakers. Some will be kicked to the surrounds, but beware that many, many movies will have little to no surround sound.

I didn't mention the low frequency effect channel (the LFE), the .1 channel in a system. It's great, and I highly recommend a sub.

When I built my 5.1 system, I was disappointed in how few movies and documentaries sent good effects to the surround speakers. Note that I'm talking about movies and documentaries that had a 5.1 setting in the audio menu; some don't. I though I'd set something up wrong with some DVDs, until experienced people told me that some movies will send little, if anything, to the surround speakers.

Again, let me say that for your needs, a dynamite center channel speaker is paramount.

You can get a fine 5.1 home theater system system for under $800--for example,the AV123 batch of four x-ls's (L, R, LS, and RS) and an x-cs for the center, plus an x-sub. Of course, an AVR would be on top of that, but if you got a Yamaha 659 for $280 plus ~$25 shipping, you'd be well under your budget.

I'm shopping for a new system, and, while I'm considering AV123 speakers, I'm in love with the Phase Tech Premiers series 3.1 II. (Not the plain 3.1's, which are older and not as good, only the 3.1 II's.) These blew me away. They cost $600 each, MSRP, though almost any dealer will give a discount. Three of these (L, R, and C) would make a killer system. You could get much less expensive speakers for the two surrounds.
http://www.phasetech.com/

A sub to go with it? I could recommend some. Hsu, SVS, and AV123 come to mind immediately. Do you want down-firing? Do you have cats with front claws? These are questions to pursue.

AV123 has a dynamite sub coming out, the MFW-15. It's on my short list. There'd be no problem pairing that with a Phase Tech speaker system--or any speaker system.

Special wires? High-cost speaker wires are a snake-oil item. Unless you have speaker wire runs over 50-feet, just get 14-gauge lamp-cord wire at a big home store like Lowe's or Home Depot.

Interconnects? (These are the wires that go between you system components, except from the AVR/amp to the speakers. In other words, interconnects go from a DVD player to the AVR, the VCR to the AVR, the TV to the AVR, the AVR to the TV, the cable box to the AVR, etc.) Please don't fall into the trap of getting expensive ones. The Radio Shack Gold Series are great--they're all you need, and you can find them in every city. Monster Cables? Though decent, they're far too expensive for what they give. You could also find good stuff at Blue Jeans Cable if you can wait for the shipping (great quality):
http://bluejeanscable.com/

If you feel you need to upgrade your DVD player, the other references to Oppo are good. Depending on your TV and overall set up, choose wisely, because you may not need all the bells and whistles.

I'd recommend a good-quality surge suppressor. Get one that has a pretty high joule rating. You shouldn't have to spend more than $50 for it, unless you want other features, like battery back-up.

Chris

 

[ChrisJam]

actually, I'm paying for the new hardwood floors, and won't be buying anything for three or four months.

We're soon getting hardwood floors in two rooms. We just got new carpet in one room, plus one complete bathroom remodel three months ago. I won't be buying new stuff for quite a while, assuming nothing dies.

But it's all good.

Chris

 

[davidtwotrees]

Hello, Miss Velcro.
Your mention of your husband not getting the dialog and interrupting your movie watching experience sounds eerily framilar as my folks went through the same stuff. Dad was much older, though........

Great tips from everyone here. I'm surprised no one has mentioned room acoustics. You said there were glass windows behind the TV, which would make for terrible acoustics! If you don't already, get some curtains on those windows, the heavier the better. If your husband's hearing is going, the reflections off all that glass could really make it tough to hear dialog!

Also, not sure if it was mentioned, but the general rule of thumb is that your speakers should match. Especially the two fronts and the center, should be of the same manufacturer so they have the same timbre. hth. D2T

 

[jcPanny]

Speaker options

Velcro,
I would recommend selecting the speaker system first then picking a receiver with the power and features you need, and buying a DVD player, cables, etc. with the remaining funds.

I would strongly recommend a good bookshelf speaker system over the satellite type speakers in the HK system you listed. The larger bookshelf speakers will adress the sound quality issues you have with the TV speakers.

The previously mentioned AV123 X-series are a great option (www.av123.com) and you could get the X-sls floorstanding version for the front. They come in real wood veneer which can compliment and add to the decor of your room.

The SVS 5.1 system is another good option (www.svs.com). The 5.1 package is on sale in silver and white for $800.

I would avoid big box stores like CC and BB because their quality speaker selection is limited and their retail prices are much higher than authorized online sellers.

 

[no. 5]

If your husband's difficulty in hearing dialog is related to some degree of hearing loss, I would suggest looking for a center channel that has a "bright" tonal characteristic (i.e. somewhat emphasized high frequency response), as that would compensate to a degree.

And as David said, room treatments would probably be a good idea too (as he pointed out, all you may need to help could be thick curtains), because in an overly "live" room, background noise would turn into background NOISE.

 

[velcrometer]

OK,
I've been looking at all the great items you experts have given me. You appearantly know your stuff because everything I read about the AV123 & SVS choices is supremely complimentary. When looking at the AV123 I noticed the grills are rounded. Do they also have the usual rectangular grills? The rounded ones look kind of odd to me. Am I out of fashion here?

I have to tell you, when I see large wood grained speakers I think "outdated", "definiely 70's". When I see smaller, sleek, black or silver speakers (especially on stands) I think "modern" both in look & technology. That's probably a joke to you guys, huh? Have I been duped by Costco & Best Buy?

So far, I think I'm getting:

AV123 x series package speaker system
Yamaha 661 receiver (was told it will do the job for either speaker set?)
Oppo dvd player
14-12 guage wires
blue jeans cable connections
a surge protector

I am concerned I won't set it up right. Proper sound is elusive to me. Should I have a home theater pro to come out & set it up? Will he actually get the best result? Who is good in San Diego?

I'm going back to my research now, but my brain is getting full ;-)

 

[mazersteven]

OK,
Do they also have the usual rectangular grills? The rounded ones look kind of odd to me. Am I out of fashion here?

Those are called the "Snowman" grills. I do believe they have just come out with another grill option. You can ask if you order them.

 

[mazersteven]

OK,
So far, I think I'm getting:

AV123 x series package speaker system

What x-series mains are you thinking of purchasing?

x-lx bookshelf?
x-sls floorstander?
x-mtm floorstander?

 

[Leprkon]

So far, I think I'm getting:

AV123 x series package speaker system
Yamaha 661 receiver (was told it will do the job for either speaker set?)
Oppo dvd player
14-12 guage wires
blue jeans cable connections
a surge protector

I'm going back to my research now, but my brain is getting full ;-)

You've done your research pretty darn well and it looks like some excellent choices. Hubby should be very pleased.

Note to all other hubbies- make them interpret for you and they WILL buy YOU new toys !!

also, you'll be needing two last, but very, very critical items:

http://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Element-Ultimate-Region-99/dp/B0006GVJE4/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-5263105-0697738?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1182818922&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Princess-Bride-Special-Cary-Elwes/dp/B00005LOKQ/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-5263105-0697738?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1182818959&sr=1-1

 

[jcPanny]

AV123 speakers

When looking at the AV123 I noticed the grills are rounded. Do they also have the usual rectangular grills? The rounded ones look kind of odd to me. Am I out of fashion here?

I have to tell you, when I see large wood grained speakers I think "outdated", "definiely 70's". When I see smaller, sleek, black or silver speakers (especially on stands) I think "modern" both in look & technology. That's probably a joke to you guys, huh? Have I been duped by Costco & Best Buy?

Great leads for the new system.

The rounded "snowman" grills are obsolete and all new speakers come with the rectangular grills.

Pictures of the wood veneer on the AV123 speakers do not do them justice. Think really high quality cabinetry, not 1970's speakers. When you order the wood veneer (or even the matte black) you will appreciate the difference in quality from the silver plastic HTIB speakers you are used to seeing.

I have the Onix Ref 1's with the rosewood veneer.

 

[velcrometer]

What x-series mains are you thinking of purchasing?

x-lx bookshelf?
x-sls floorstander?
x-mtm floorstander?

Dunno. Is it just a matter of space? If I read it right, one of them uses the center channel speaker arrangment in the floor speakers. Is it 'better' to have all 3 front speakers the same as the center channel? That's not the usual setup is it? You guys know the dialogue problems Hubby has, will this be an improvement? Also, how much better are the Rockets? Worth the extra?

Leprkon, I will definitely get 5th Element & Princess Bride (one of my favorites). My last name is Roberts & I've called my hubby "The Dread Pirate Roberts" for years!

I must thank you all again for your help. I told Hubby that when this is all done I'll have to mount a plaque with your names on it like when they dedicate the new wing of a hospital...

"The sublime movie experience you are about to enjoy is due to the unceasing dedication & generous analytical contributions of..."

mazersteven
adam
Leprkon
ChrisJam
davidwotrees
jcPanny
no. 5

Thanks to you all!​

 

[velcrometer]

Again, let me say that for your needs, a dynamite center channel speaker is paramount.

You can get a fine 5.1 home theater system system for under $800--for example,the AV123 batch of four x-ls's (L, R, LS, and RS) and an x-cs for the center, plus an x-sub. Of course, an AVR would be on top of that, but if you got a Yamaha 659 for $280 plus ~$25 shipping, you'd be well under your budget.

I'm shopping for a new system, and, while I'm considering AV123 speakers, I'm in love with the Phase Tech Premiers series 3.1 II. (Not the plain 3.1's, which are older and not as good, only the 3.1 II's.) These blew me away. They cost $600 each, MSRP, though almost any dealer will give a discount. Three of these (L, R, and C) would make a killer system. You could get much less expensive speakers for the two surrounds.
http://www.phasetech.com/

A sub to go with it? I could recommend some. Hsu, SVS, and AV123 come to mind immediately. Do you want down-firing? Do you have cats with front claws? These are questions to pursue.

These Phase Tech Premiers, $600 is for EACH speaker? Wow, they must be great. Even the AV123 x-mtm pair is only $449. There's that much of a difference? When I see the major price difference going up from the AV123s I have to wonder how much of a listening difference it will make for me. Remember, I'm coming from NO gear. Just using the TV speakers. This is where you tell me I'll be perfectly happy with the cheaper ones ;-)

I don't know what "down-firing" is. Cat is declawed, he's neutered too in case you wondered. Seemed like the oddest question, you MUST tell me how that matters??? Oh, these grills are probably cloth. Damn Costco & their small, sleek, metal grilled, modern looking speakers!

 

[no. 5]

I don't know what "down-firing" is.

That means that the subwoofer driver is facing the floor, as opposed to "front-firing", where the driver is facing.... well, usually you the listener.

Cat is declawed, he's neutered too in case you wondered. Seemed like the oddest question, you MUST tell me how that matters??? Oh, these grills are probably cloth. Damn Costco & their small, sleek, metal grilled, modern looking speakers!

Apparently some cats claw the speaker grills (there has actually been a thread or two about it).

 

[davidtwotrees]

Cat Scratch Fever

I was given a pair of Altec Valencias by an old boss that owed me some money. He is a dog person and has a house full of hounds. When I brought the big giant Altecs in the house, Princess Natasha Anastasia Rockmananoff, (my cat) about freaked at the smell on the speakers!
Actually, the speakers were a bad fit for my system so I sold them off quickly. Tasha did manage to get a quarter sized hole in one of the woofers cones So the cats can damage speakers.

VelcroPro. You mentioned styling and wood on speakers. I think part of the reason you see expensive speakers with very expensive, exotic woods is to justify the five figure price tag on the speakers. They look beautiful with the right decor. I think silver and black are suited for the home theatre set up.

Here is a link to my recent set up......twotreesrig.shutterfly.com as you can see I am partial to the silver and black set up. My speakers are the Mordaunt Short 500 series. I like them because, a. they sound excellent, and b. they have "side firing" subwoofers built into each front speaker. The set of fronts, rears and center is going for about $1500.....which is a good deal if you consider you're getting two subwoofers in the bargain......