Cap and Trade

[Tomorrow]

This is the problem when you want to initiate programs you can't pay for. Apparently worse, this is just the tip of the iceberg. It's not the top 2% wage earners that get taxed. It's everyone. If this bill passes the U.S. Senate, you can all kiss a LOT of money goodbye...jobs too, and not just for and in the energy sector. But then perhaps this is how our Supreme Leader proposes to pay for all the cool things he wants the government to do.

Here is a redacted letter sent to a friend of mine from our House Rep, Greg Walden, in Oregon. Remember, these are Oregon numbers where we have mighty green hydroelectric power. Poor midwesterners...you're sunk. (Trust your government. Buy Government Motors cars. )

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"As you may already know, the so-called cap and trade bill passed the House of Representatives narrowly this afternoon. The legislation now goes to the U.S. Senate. But I wanted to give you a quick update on the day's proceedings.

I opposed this bill, which levies the largest-ever energy tax on the American people. If it becomes law, PacifiCorp would hike its power rates in Oregon by at least 17.9 percent. The Heritage Foundation estimates that the National Energy Tax would cost the economy $161 billion in 2020, which is $1,870 for a family of four. As the bill's restrictions kick in, that could climb as high as $6,800 by 2035.

The authors of the bill recognized the toll higher energy prices will take on families, so they developed a new "energy stamps" welfare program. The size of this new entitlement is 16-times bigger than America's already-existent welfare system (the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program). But if you're a family of four making more than $33,000 a year, you're out of luck. The program doesn't apply to you.

You might assume that such an incredibly consequential bill would have been vetted carefully before passage. Incredibly, you'd be wrong. At 2:49 a.m. today, the bill's author, Representative Henry Waxman (D-Hollywood), introduced a new 309-page rewrite of the 1,201-page bill. I have trouble believing that any member of Congress read through this new rewrite before the vote. And out of 224 amendments that Republicans hoped to have considered, Speaker Nancy Pelosi only allowed one to receive a vote on the House floor.

I remain deeply concerned over what this bill would do to the American economy. I will continue to monitor the legislation closely as it heads to the U.S. Senate and keep you posted as the process moves forward."

Greg Walden

 

[Matt34]

As a country we are circling the drain faster with every decision these baboons in Washington make.

 

[Nemo128]

Either of you read all 1427 pages of the bill? Cuz I did, and I could have a lot of fun with this debate.

 

[Matt34]

Cuz I did

That's probably more than the people elected to represent us did.

 

[Tomorrow]

Either of you read all 1427 pages of the bill? Cuz I did, and I could have a lot of fun with this debate.

Good on ya, Nemo. Next I suggest that you read the Encyclopedia Brittanica, and then, when you have all the information available to mankind, maybe you'll be able to reverse entropy.

 

[WmAx]

Based on what I can tell, it is very rare for any politician to read the bills that they vote for. This should be a felony. Yes, you read that correctly. When you are responsible for the well being of the citizens that supposedly work for, then such careless voting should be a felony. No less. The bills to long to actually read? Well, no bill should be more than about 10 pages at 8 or 9 point text - unless the additional pages are simply plain text lists to I.D. a large number of things or people,etc., that the bill applies to; no bill should even be allowed to have such extensive content that it makes it non-feasible for the average politician to comprehend and thoroughly understand before voting upon. The bills should be required to be so short as to not be able to include extensive pork or ridiculous conditions that take pages upon pages to explain(probably just to confuse/obscure the negative aspects).

How can these people sit in their chairs and make such irresponsible votes when it affects the lives of the citizens?

Of course, I'm crazy. I believe every politician should be held strictly responsible and have to follow the founder intents of the constitution. I believe no business/corporation should be allowed to bias a vote with donations or any other method. Since when is this country supposed to enforce/create laws based on the rich minority against the people's interst? To me this is treason and should be treated as such.

-Chris

 

[Seth=L]

Politicians should be treated like every other working person in the United States if they aren't doing their job right, being lazy, or their business in general is slumping they should downsize and hire on new people that can do the job correctly. They....we the people....they.

 

[vizionut]

yep, this bill is bad news for my state and all the companies that do business with the coal companies.

 

[Nemo128]

Good on ya, Nemo. Next I suggest that you read the Encyclopedia Brittanica, and then, when you have all the information available to mankind, maybe you'll be able to reverse entropy.

Thanks for answering the question posed...

I for one have no problem with $2k of my yearly money going towards trying to ensure our children a cleaner future with less reliance on foreign energy imports. I spend 5x more than that on dumb meaningless crap in a year anyway. Then again, I'm not all for "Hey future generations, we made the mess, now it's your problem!"

 

[bandphan]

Thanks for answering the question posed...

I for one have no problem with $2k of my yearly money going towards trying to ensure our children a cleaner future with less reliance on foreign energy imports. I spend 5x more than that on dumb meaningless crap in a year anyway. Then again, I'm not all for "Hey future generations, we made the mess, now it's your problem!"

Its not going to be just 2k if you believe outside numbers.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/EnergyandEnvironment/tst062609a.cfm

 

[Matt34]

Thanks for answering the question posed...

I for one have no problem with $2k of my yearly money going towards trying to ensure our children a cleaner future with less reliance on foreign energy imports.

Yeah, by making it more expensive for everyone here, demand will go down. That's not a solution as it will cause more jobs to be sent overseas. Iit is not a fix on our reliance of foreign energy, it just means we have to pay more for less. It's an "energy tax" guised as a green friendly solution.

Obama has spent more on new programs and grown the federal government faster than any one president in recent history. Fiscal responsibility is nothing more than a dirty phrase to those in power....you, I and our children are all going to be paying for this for a long time to come with no palpable benefit. Just look at how well their Stimulus package has done for the economy that has cost every man, woman and child $7000.

 

[majorloser]

Either of you read all 1427 pages of the bill? Cuz I did, and I could have a lot of fun with this debate.

What's the second sentence of the fourth paragraph on page 964?

 

[WmAx]

Politicians should be treated like every other working person in the United States if they aren't doing their job right, being lazy, or their business in general is slumping they should downsize and hire on new people that can do the job correctly. They....we the people....they.

I strongly disagree. Politicians have an incredible power over everyone's lives. They should be LIABLE for their actions as I described earlier.

-Chris

 

[Tomorrow]

Thanks for answering the question posed...

I for one have no problem with $2k of my yearly money going towards trying to ensure our children a cleaner future with less reliance on foreign energy imports. I spend 5x more than that on dumb meaningless crap in a year anyway. Then again, I'm not all for "Hey future generations, we made the mess, now it's your problem!"

No part of this proposed bill rates debate. It inserts government into our daily lives like nothing in history and costs us more huge job losses and actual dollars. How about just one small example...Want to sell your house in this slumping market? You'll have to contact that huge, new, expensive government bureaucracy that will send out an inspector with his huge, new, expensive infrared camera to look at and inspect your house's energy leakage and green design. "Dear Mr. Nemo. We realize that you have given of yourself over and above the dumb meaningless crap you've been buying before now. But please be apprised that you must now replace all your windows with triplepane glass (eliminating 4 of them, as you have too large a percentage of windows to more green-friendly walls), install R400 insulation throughout, put in 'water Nazis' on all water fixtures, install two charging stations for current or future electric car acquisition, re-roof your house, as significant heat is being released through the old, inadequate, 30 year hurricane proof shingles. After you have submitted proof of these repairs and the $400 application fee along with the $500 inspection fee it will take approximately 6 months to approve or disapprove you qualification to sell your house under the Cap & Trade Regulations. If you have any further questions, please contact our automated help line at 1-800-IRS4YOU." Debating this issue only gives it a reality and credence that it does not deserve.

By the way, have you also taken the time to read the 96 page EPA report on global warming just released (and suppressed by the EPA/White House and mainstream media)? This is the EPA we're talking here....says that global weather conditions indicate a cooling of the globe until at least 2030. Hmmm.

And speaking of news...it's truly alarming that the mainstream media spends huge allotments of time on dead celebrities and little if anything on the largest energy spending bill in the history of the world. Oh yeah...that two grand you're so willing to give up....the total unsupportable debt in the U.S. is now somewhere between $65 and $99 Trillion depending upon who you believe. You're two thousand bucks aren't going very far in the grand scheme of things. Yes, indeed you had better worry about future generations.

Lenin and Marx knew something. They knew that if you debase a country's economy enough (spending and printing money/raising debt), then you destabililze the government. You destabilize the government...you get what you deserve...and it's NOT democracy. How are your history studies? You seem to be an avid reader. You read much of that too?

 

[highfigh]

No part of this proposed bill rates debate.

You meant to say that every part of this bill rates debate, right?

Any bill that slides or is pushed through without a good amount of debate should be sent back for the same reasons we couldn't just put a number in the spot for the answer on a math test. "Show your work" should be absolutely mandatory and if this is the way the US government will be for the long haul, I can't see a good reason to stay here. Even if someone wanted to live out in the sticks, away from any city, supporting their lifestyle by being completely self-sufficient for daily needs, they'll be taxed beyond any reasonable level.

This kind of crap is exactly why the Colonists revolted.

 

[majorloser]

One good thing will come from this...

MORE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS.

 

[Tomorrow]

You meant to say that every part of this bill rates debate, right?

Any bill that slides or is pushed through without a good amount of debate should be sent back for the same reasons we couldn't just put a number in the spot for the answer on a math test. "Show your work" should be absolutely mandatory and if this is the way the US government will be for the long haul, I can't see a good reason to stay here. Even if someone wanted to live out in the sticks, away from any city, supporting their lifestyle by being completely self-sufficient for daily needs, they'll be taxed beyond any reasonable level.

This kind of crap is exactly why the Colonists revolted.

Exactly.

To be clear, I should have said "Nothing in this bill deserves debate as it should be discarded out of hand." It surely required detailed, protracted debate on the floor of the House of Representatives, and didn't get it.

The asylum is currently being run by the inmates. I so hope that rational people like Annunaki find the will and deep interest in politics to get involved and drive these Republican-Democrat spending and power mongers out to pasture.

 

[Tomorrow]

One good thing will come from this...

MORE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS.

...Only so long as the total energy is at least 20% wind power. I wonder what happens if it's only 19%. Do we all get fined? You might have to put up a windmill in your back yard, Dave.

And what the hell is a Green Bank?

 

[majorloser]

You might have to put up a windmill in your back yard, Dave.

And what the hell is a Green Bank?

The HOA wouldn't allow it.

 

[Tomorrow]

This kind of crap is exactly why the Colonists revolted.

Please note that the government is trying to prepare for this. Check out HR45...the new House bill that flies in the face of the 2nd Amendment and recent Surpreme Court decision. California has already banned lead ammo. OTOH, you might also have seen that despite huge upramping in manufacturing, there are few guns now available anywhere in the U.S. and almost NO AMMO of any kind. They're sold out everywhere. There is a reason for that. I'll let you all supply the answer for yourselves.