Canton Vento vs Chrono SL (models with ceramic tweeters)

K

kxthor

Audioholic Intern
I think it depends on how far you sit from the speakers and how loud you like to listen!
For me, using a 3300 in stereo would be perfectly fine!
The Cantons do drop to 4 Ohm territory, but having an AVR designed for several channels helps ensure the power supply can handle 4 ohms into only 2 (and Genes test results show the AVR-X3300H putting out 154 Watts at 4 ohms CFP-BW with 0.1% THD)
I would only be sitting 5 to 7 feet from the speakers. The room is smaller. I just can't make up my mind what I want to do. Thats why I started researching 6 months before our house is finished so I would have plenty of time.
 
K

kxthor

Audioholic Intern
I'm running the Canton 9.2 Reference speakers with the 65W per channel Hegel H90 integrated amp in my 12 x 13' office. With the volume at 50% I'm getting over 80db. That Denon 3300 AVR should have plenty of power for the Canton.

I also ran the Canton 9.2 Reference speakers on the Denon 4500 in a 22 x 28' home theatre room with three pairs of speakers on the AVR amps. It handled it fine with no issues while louder than 90db. :rolleyes:

I would try it with the 3300. It should be fine.
With the Hegal being a decated amp I would think that it would be stronger than an avr, of course that is just me guessing. Maybe a watt is just a watt. Thats why im here and asking questions so people like you all can help. Thanks again.
 
Gryph

Gryph

Audioholic
I drive mine with a 2 channel Outlaw receiver pushing 110 WPC and has no problem getting louder than my normal listening levels, I’m sure your AVR will do just fine.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
With the Hegal being a decated amp I would think that it would be stronger than an avr, of course that is just me guessing. Maybe a watt is just a watt. Thats why im here and asking questions so people like you all can help. Thanks again.
Depends which Hegel and which avr....but many avrs do quite well in 2ch mode for power and impedance handling. If measured equally then yes watt is just a watt....
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
@PENG , I am hoping this makes sense to you!
I was looking at a review Translated from German for the Canton A 45 BS.
It has a feature called DC, which I understand to be a high-pass filter to avoid over-driving the woofer at low frequencies.
The commentary under the phase-impedence chart included this statement (again translated so the terminology may be a little strange):
Due to the DC technology, the driving amplifier must be able to provide capacitive reactive power up to about 40 Hz.
I am quite clueless as to what "capacitive reactive power" is. Do you know if this would require more than a mid-class AVR like the Denon AVR-X3700H?
Of course, anyone else who might know this, feel free to comment!

Amount and phase of impedance of the Canton A 45 BS. With 3.2 ohms at 28 Hz, it just complies with the standard lower limit. Due to the DC technology, the driving amplifier must be able to provide capacitive reactive power up to about 40 Hz. (Diagram: J. Schröder)
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
@PENG , I am hoping this makes sense to you!
I was looking at a review Translated from German for the Canton A 45 BS.
It has a feature called DC, which I understand to be a high-pass filter to avoid over-driving the woofer at low frequencies.
The commentary under the phase-impedence chart included this statement (again translated so the terminology may be a little strange):

I am quite clueless as to what "capacitive reactive power" is. Do you know if this would require more than a mid-class AVR like the Denon AVR-X3700H?
Of course, anyone else who might know this, feel free to comment!


As we all know/heard about, that moving coil loudspeakers are reactive loads. Reactive simply the current will lead of lag the voltage phasor (or the incorrect but popular term "vector"). If current leads voltage, it would be considered capacitive because a capacitive load will draw current that leads the voltage, a pure capacitor will draw current that leads voltage by 90 degree. Cosine -90 or +90 degrees = 0 so at such high phase angles, the amplifier will virtually dissipate heat (watts) in the amp's output devices and not in the speakers.

So whether the load is capacitive or inductive, if the phase angle is too high, it is not going to be amplifier friendly. I don't know how your Canton speaker's phase angle looks like so I can't comment on whether the AVR-X3700H can handle them. It is best to email Canton and ask them about it. When you do that, you may want to give them a link to Amir's test results.

In general, I would think that a combination of low impedance and high phase angle would be tough for any AVRs and many power amps. But if you don't see anything like 4 ohm+phase angles >45 degrees combinations, I wouldn't worry about it as I know Denon/Marantz amps are quite capable of "high current".

If the phase angle of the load current is leading, the load is capacitive, and for the same phase angle in magnitude, it is a little worse than an inductive load because there would be a higher risk of the amp getting out of its comfort stability zone. To explain that I would have to brush up on my control theory, remember the poles and zeros, bode diagrams, root locus analysis kind of stuff?...:p I started cleaning up my basement but I have not thrown away all my university text books yet, but........
 
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KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
As we all know/heard about, that moving coil loudspeakers are reactive loads. Reactive simply the current will lead of lag the voltage phasor (or the incorrect but popular term "vector"). If current leads voltage, it would be considered capacitive because a capacitive load will draw current that leads the voltage, a pure capacitor will draw current that leads voltage by 90 degree. Cosine -90 or +90 degrees = 0 so at such high phase angles, the amplifier will virtually dissipate heat (watts) in the amp's output devices and not in the speakers.

So whether the load is capacitive or inductive, if the phase angle is too high, it is not going to be amplifier friendly. I don't know how your Canton speaker's phase angle looks like so I can't comment on whether the AVR-X3700H can handle them. It is best to email Canton and ask them about it. When you do that, you may want to give them a link to Amir's test results.

In general, I would think that a combination of low impedance and high phase angle would be tough for any AVRs and many power amps. But if you don't see anything like 4 ohm+phase angles >45 degrees combinations, I wouldn't worry about it as I know Denon/Marantz amps are quite capable of "high current".

If the phase angle of the load current is leading, the load is capacitive, and for the same phase angle in magnitude, it is a little worse than an inductive load because there would be a higher risk of the amp getting out of its comfort stability zone. To explain that I would have to brush up on my control theory, remember the poles and zeros, bode diagrams, root locus analysis kind of stuff?...:p I started cleaning up my basement but I have not thrown away all my university text books yet, but........
Thanks!
I know it looks different, but I did post impedance and phase charts. See post #285.
They are plotted on two separate graphs.
I would be using a subwoofer so I imagine that would dodge the particular issue they are talking about!
 
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VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Senior Audioholic
Thanks!
I know it looks different, but I did post impedance and phase charts.
They are plotted on two separate graphs.
I would be using a subwoofer so I imagine that would dodge the particular issue they are talking about!
KEW,
I doubt its a big deal. My Canton Vento Reference 9.2 DC speakers have the DC technology and they play fine on the Denon 4500 or the Hegel H90.

 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks!
I know it looks different, but I did post impedance and phase charts. See post #285.
They are plotted on two separate graphs.
I would be using a subwoofer so I imagine that would dodge the particular issue they are talking about!
Sorry, it looked very different indeed:D so I didn't realize that lower graph was for phase angle vs freq. I don't see any issue at all because that "DC" thing must be effective as I don't see any really bad combo of large phase angle in either direction that coincides with impedance lower than 4 ohms. It is not great in the below 20 Hz range, but I don't think you would get much contents there anyway and AVRs FR typically show it would begin to fall off from below 20 Hz even in direct mode. I would say even without a sub with XO you should be fine.
 
slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Spartan
@PENG , I am hoping this makes sense to you!
I was looking at a review Translated from German for the Canton A 45 BS.
It has a feature called DC, which I understand to be a high-pass filter to avoid over-driving the woofer at low frequencies.
The commentary under the phase-impedence chart included this statement (again translated so the terminology may be a little strange):

I am quite clueless as to what "capacitive reactive power" is. Do you know if this would require more than a mid-class AVR like the Denon AVR-X3700H?
Of course, anyone else who might know this, feel free to comment!


It would be incredibly useful to know what DC stands for???

Commonly it would be Direct Current, but that seems unlikely here. Perhaps it means Directly Coupled, but that would seem to rule out a high pass filter if it were Directly Coupled to the driver.

Have you found any references directly from Canton on the "DC Technology"?

EDIT: I found this info. So, it almost seems like a rumble filter (i.e. a high pass filter with a low freq corner freq).
Canton Technology
DC technology

DC technology ('Displacement Control'), developed by Canton prevents the uncontrolled deflection of the bass loudspeaker membrane at low tones. It suppresses the subsonic (i.e. not audible) oscillations and allows the bass tones to sound perceptibly sharper and more precise.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Website says:

“DC technology ('Displacement Control'), developed by Canton prevents the uncontrolled deflection of the bass loudspeaker membrane at low tones. It suppresses the subsonic (i.e. not audible) oscillations and allows the bass tones to sound perceptibly sharper and more precise.“

 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Senior Audioholic
That is, essentially, what it is!
The Vento 9.2 reference DC low bass tones have a bit of an edge to them. Bass under 50Hz sounds more like a tight fart than the bass I'm use to. Maybe that's the DC feature at work. lol

But it does play amazingly low for a bookshelf speaker.
 
T

txbonds

Full Audioholic
Do the canton chrono speakers work with spade lugs, or are they better with banana jack plugs?
 
Darenwh

Darenwh

Audioholic
I wonder how good the Canton 989 inwall speakers are. I am purchasing a house with a small living room and am wondering how these would perform for a 2.1 system.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Do the canton chrono speakers work with spade lugs, or are they better with banana jack plugs?
They have quality 5-way binding posts, so you can go either way.
I use banana plugs for convenience because I often swap around my gear.
However, I believe spade lugs are the best connection (as long as the connection between the lug and the wire is solid), so that is probably better if you expect to connect it and forget it for a good while.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I wonder how good the Canton 989 inwall speakers are. I am purchasing a house with a small living room and am wondering how these would perform for a 2.1 system.
I don't know anyone who has tried those.
With the ceramic tweeter, and knowing how good their box speakers are, it seems like a good gamble at $300/pr.
If you want to hedge your bets, you could order the pair, install them as your fronts then, if they do not win your favor as mains, I'm certain they'd make fine surrounds. You need to make sure you could find mains that required a larger hole in the wall. The Cantons are generally compact, but with the 8" woofer, you'd need to double check your options.
 
Darenwh

Darenwh

Audioholic
I very well may order a pair and build a box to try them in initially so I don't need to make a hole for them until I know how they sound. If they are good I may need to get two more sets so I can do in wall rear and use one for a center leaving one as a spare in case something happens to one down the line.
 
Timforhifi

Timforhifi

Audioholic
I I have the in ceiling version for my 6 height channels and a pair for surrounds. Absolutely love them, actually like them better than 836.2. They get louder and are more dynamic. They over power the 836.2 at higher spl. I’d have to check but these in wall and in ceiling are set 3-5 dB lower on my avr too. Also I sit farther away from them. Nice upgrade over vento bookshelves and on wall surrounds at a nice price.
 

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