Canton Vento Reference 3 DC

M

mtrot

Audioholic
Yes the breakup is at the top end of drivers. Although we dont hear at those frequencies, the harmonics excite our hearing.
Hmm, do you mean at the top end of the frequency range of the drivers, or do you mean at the top end in terms of volume?
 
Timforhifi

Timforhifi

Junior Audioholic
Thanks, I have seen a bunch of Thomas's YT videos, so I will check that one out.

I have a lot of power in my Krell FPB 400cx power amp, which is rated for 400 wpc into 8 ohms, 800 into 4 ohms, and 1600 into 2 ohms. The Krell is fed by a PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC/pre-amp. The room is a mid sized family room that is open to the breakfast nook and kitchen. And the kitchen is open via a hallway to the formal dining and living rooms.

What was the difference you heard from the 896 and reference 5.2?
Great gear! I’m sure they’ll really push any speakers you decide to get. Is this for 2 channel only?

the reference 5.2 didn’t have the impact or bass I expected from a bigger speaker. The 896 actually had more quality bass to my ears. Enough to feel and even vibrate my seat. The upper end and mids was so close I couldn’t tell. Now the 3.2 are different and scale higher but need a larger room to do that. From what I understand you’ll need a larger room to hear any difference below 30-40hz with the way the speakers load the room.

Thomas ended up getting rid of 3.2 and bass was a big reason.

now the reference k line is improved and bass has more impact and that could have something to do with new base on bottom that has a new redirected groove that helps bass.

I also like to buy the newest model for future resale, that is if you don’t keep for many years. Vento 896.2 is a current model and I’m not sure many would hear a drastic difference.

now I decided to get the 896 and 866.2 for my theater room. Have other canton in rooms across my house. For 2 channel I actually liked my Sonus faber the best.

these are all subjective opinions but maybe it can help.
 
M

mtrot

Audioholic
Great gear! I’m sure they’ll really push any speakers you decide to get. Is this for 2 channel only?

the reference 5.2 didn’t have the impact or bass I expected from a bigger speaker. The 896 actually had more quality bass to my ears. Enough to feel and even vibrate my seat. The upper end and mids was so close I couldn’t tell. Now the 3.2 are different and scale higher but need a larger room to do that. From what I understand you’ll need a larger room to hear any difference below 30-40hz with the way the speakers load the room.

Thomas ended up getting rid of 3.2 and bass was a big reason.

now the reference k line is improved and bass has more impact and that could have something to do with new base on bottom that has a new redirected groove that helps bass.

I also like to buy the newest model for future resale, that is if you don’t keep for many years. Vento 896.2 is a current model and I’m not sure many would hear a drastic difference.

now I decided to get the 896 and 866.2 for my theater room. Have other canton in rooms across my house. For 2 channel I actually liked my Sonus faber the best.

these are all subjective opinions but maybe it can help.
Actually, this is for a mix of about 50/50 of music and movies. The PS Audio Stellar Gain DAC has a home theater bypass feature, so I use that when watching movies. Watching movies, I use my Denon AVR-X5200 which powers the other channels, with the front L/R channels still being powered by the Krell.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Great gear! I’m sure they’ll really push any speakers you decide to get. Is this for 2 channel only?

the reference 5.2 didn’t have the impact or bass I expected from a bigger speaker. The 896 actually had more quality bass to my ears. Enough to feel and even vibrate my seat. The upper end and mids was so close I couldn’t tell. Now the 3.2 are different and scale higher but need a larger room to do that. From what I understand you’ll need a larger room to hear any difference below 30-40hz with the way the speakers load the room.

Thomas ended up getting rid of 3.2 and bass was a big reason.

now the reference k line is improved and bass has more impact and that could have something to do with new base on bottom that has a new redirected groove that helps bass.

I also like to buy the newest model for future resale, that is if you don’t keep for many years. Vento 896.2 is a current model and I’m not sure many would hear a drastic difference.

now I decided to get the 896 and 866.2 for my theater room. Have other canton in rooms across my house. For 2 channel I actually liked my Sonus faber the best.

these are all subjective opinions but maybe it can help.
He doesn’t have a sub. I’m thinking he would need one no matter what. He needs home theater and music.
 
Timforhifi

Timforhifi

Junior Audioholic
Sub for sure! I’d rather have chrono 596.2 with Rythmik g25 than reference 3.2. Both are about $4000 for set.
 
M

mtrot

Audioholic
He doesn’t have a sub. I’m thinking he would need one no matter what. He needs home theater and music.
I'm not opposed to a sub, may pick one up at some point, although it could not be very big, as there is not much of a good space to place one in my room. Hence my interest in good bass extension and impact in my towers. But I could add one to whichever speakers I get.
 
M

mtrot

Audioholic
I’d say any of these options are great and you’ll be happy with any of them. If price doesn’t matter probably the 3.2 is best option.

I think I’d make my decision more based upon listening habits and gear I’ll be using with them. The 3.2 or 3 will need better gear with more power to scale to a higher level. Watch Thomas and stereo on YouTube on how he describes the 3.2.

with lower power or even a smaller room with lower listening levels the 896.2 will sound great. No worse than the reference models in question. Also the aluminum magnesium tweeters are excellent still and what really put canton on the map years ago. I’d put the older karat reference up against any of the newer stuff and it would be close.

what’s interesting is the difference I heard from 896 and reference 5.2 was interesting. That’s subjective though and my opinion based on hours of demos.
BTW, I checked out Thomas' video and he talks about the 3.2's "metallic" sound, due to the metal woofers. He says it's not as pronounced as some others with metal drivers, but that it's still there.

Do any of you agree with that about the Vento or Vento Reference speakers?
 
Timforhifi

Timforhifi

Junior Audioholic
Yes they do have a slight metallic sound. I think they call that ringing from the aluminum driver. The newer cone technology seems to be doing a better job with that. I wouldn’t decide based upon that though alone. Overall canton makes an excellent speaker.

canton makes a speaker that’s as good as anything for home theater and great for the money for music.

the focal 948 is excellent for music and has some great deals right now. Overall though I’d consider them a step down from canton 896 or a45.

maybe I should ask a different way, what sound signature do you like best? Do you like the detailed sound thats brighter like a focal kanta. Or the thicker fuller sound of a Sonus cremona. Or more neutral sound of a canton vento.

I’d consider the denon 5200 to be darker sounding compared to some others. What speakers do you have now?
 
R

revrob57

Audioholic Intern
I have the Reference 3 DC and I believe they produce some of the best bass I have ever heard from any speaker I have owned and listen to. I don't hear any metallic sound from my system whatsoever ever. I also don't use my speakers for home theater, 2 -channel only system. I wouldn't even consider a sub unless I was doing Home Theater,

I also believe that the Reference 3 DC will reveal whatever the rest of your system consists of. I have a Meridian 800 DVD / CD that I used for CDs, a VPI Classic Reference turntable for analog, Bluesound Node 2 and Apple iMac 27 for streaming and playing music from Spotify and Amazon HD Music.

In my opinion, the Reference 3 DC, is one of the most satisfying speakers I have ever owned in the last 40 years. I don't believe I could find a better speaker for any price at this point in my life for under $15K. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I'm expressing my own. Your ears and your room have a lot to determine what you hear.

Good luck.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Thanks, I spoke with Mark this morning. He feels that the Vento Reference 3DC would be a significant step up from the Vento 896.2DC, even without the ceramic tweeter.

I understand that the ceramic coating is meant to prevent break up modes in the tweeter, but what I don't know much about is whether that is only significant at high volume levels. I don't really play my music or movies all that loud, so the question is if I would be able to enjoy any benefit from the ceramic tweeter. Or, is the ceramic tweeter better sounding at all volume levels?
Darn, I was hoping that perhaps you might work out an order with Mark for the A45 in Cherry (since white or black was not your preference).
Did Mark say if he had listened to both in a good A-B setup or did you discuss the tweeter/highs in particular?
I am wary when somebody listens to speakers in different rooms or even an hour apart, so I try to compare at the same time. A lot of people overlook that we, as biological organisms are in many ways sacks of chemicals and our perceptions are not very consistent. As an analogy, good food tastes good, but go swimming for two hours and that good food will taste great! Similarly, if you spent the last two hours anticipating getting home and listening to a favorite song, it will probably sound better when you do than if haven't though about it until just before putting it on. A capable salesman will get you excited about a product before he even turns it on and you will likely perceive it as better because in an excited state we are just more alert/attentive.

I have not heard the reference series, so cannot speak specifically to it. The best Aliminium tweeter I have heard is in the KEF LS50. It is said to benefit from KEF's Blade, but I don't know how close it is to KEF's best (which might be assumed to be in the same realm as Canton's best?). I have to say it is the first Al tweeter I have heard that never gave me any sense of break-up. However, I did not push them hard and only set them up at about 7' distance. They did not, however, have that last bit of high frequency detail that the Canton Ceramic tweeter offers. RAAL, Focal Be, and Canton Ceramic all fit into the same high level of quality to my ear. They have different character (especially because the Canton uses a significant waveguide while the others do not), but I consider them the best I have heard.

I like Snakeeyes thought:
Did you rule out the Reference 5.2 tower? I know the A45 was the wrong color.
Assuming you are integrating sub(s), the difference between 8" and 8.5" drivers is likely to disappear. In one of my most amazing experiences, I had @TheWarrior over to listen to my tiny Vento 820.2 (1" tweeter, 6" mid/woof) vs RBH T1 (3 ea. 1" tweeters and 4 ea. 6.5" mid/woofs - it is big). I had these set up and had been listening to them for the past couple of weeks. My conclusion was that the Canton Vento had a better top end, but the RBH had a magnificent soundstage - enveloping me like nothing else I had heard. TheWarrior listened to the two speakers blind and simply liked the Canton better. When I asked him about any perception of scale or size he said "none". I was astounded, but closed my eyes and just listened as I switched back and forth, and sure enough he was right, the sense of the "magnificent enveloping presence" of the T1 was all expectation bias based on the visual dominance of the RBH T1. I gained a renewed respect for the influence of sighted comparisons that day.

Tim likes the 896 better than the smaller siblings (from another thread). I believe that is his experience.
However, here is what LowBeats magazine had to say about the Vento family

My absolute favorite after many days of listening is the small stand-alone box 876 and the two compact 826 and 816. All three are not quite as full-bodied in the bass as the bigger siblings, but they sound finer, lighter and also wonderfully balanced.

Contradictions! - My guess is it is all about setup. If the speakers are close to the walls or corners, the 896's bass is likely to overwhelm while if they are pulled out into the room, the 876 is likely to sound anemic in the low end. Ultimately, the bottom line is these are all quality speakers with smooth response and although we ideally want speakers that sound perfect out of the box, these will give you the sound you want with small EQ adjustments. With subs, you can put the subs where they interact best with the room. With speakers, it is a gamble that the room interaction with bass frequencies will work well where speakers must be located for proper presentation at the higher frequencies.
Canton decided to upgrade the Al tweeter to Ceramic in one of their most premium line-ups. I don't think they did this without lots of thought. If I was spending the money, it seems to me the A 45 or Reference 5.2 are the best bets.
 
M

mtrot

Audioholic
Darn, I was hoping that perhaps you might work out an order with Mark for the A45 in Cherry (since white or black was not your preference).
Did Mark say if he had listened to both in a good A-B setup or did you discuss the tweeter/highs in particular?
I am wary when somebody listens to speakers in different rooms or even an hour apart, so I try to compare at the same time. A lot of people overlook that we, as biological organisms are in many ways sacks of chemicals and our perceptions are not very consistent. As an analogy, good food tastes good, but go swimming for two hours and that good food will taste great! Similarly, if you spent the last two hours anticipating getting home and listening to a favorite song, it will probably sound better when you do than if haven't though about it until just before putting it on. A capable salesman will get you excited about a product before he even turns it on and you will likely perceive it as better because in an excited state we are just more alert/attentive.

I have not heard the reference series, so cannot speak specifically to it. The best Aliminium tweeter I have heard is in the KEF LS50. It is said to benefit from KEF's Blade, but I don't know how close it is to KEF's best (which might be assumed to be in the same realm as Canton's best?). I have to say it is the first Al tweeter I have heard that never gave me any sense of break-up. However, I did not push them hard and only set them up at about 7' distance. They did not, however, have that last bit of high frequency detail that the Canton Ceramic tweeter offers. RAAL, Focal Be, and Canton Ceramic all fit into the same high level of quality to my ear. They have different character (especially because the Canton uses a significant waveguide while the others do not), but I consider them the best I have heard.

I like Snakeeyes thought:


Assuming you are integrating sub(s), the difference between 8" and 8.5" drivers is likely to disappear. In one of my most amazing experiences, I had @TheWarrior over to listen to my tiny Vento 820.2 (1" tweeter, 6" mid/woof) vs RBH T1 (3 ea. 1" tweeters and 4 ea. 6.5" mid/woofs - it is big). I had these set up and had been listening to them for the past couple of weeks. My conclusion was that the Canton Vento had a better top end, but the RBH had a magnificent soundstage - enveloping me like nothing else I had heard. TheWarrior listened to the two speakers blind and simply liked the Canton better. When I asked him about any perception of scale or size he said "none". I was astounded, but closed my eyes and just listened as I switched back and forth, and sure enough he was right, the sense of the "magnificent enveloping presence" of the T1 was all expectation bias based on the visual dominance of the RBH T1. I gained a renewed respect for the influence of sighted comparisons that day.

Tim likes the 896 better than the smaller siblings (from another thread). I believe that is his experience.
However, here is what LowBeats magazine had to say about the Vento family



Contradictions! - My guess is it is all about setup. If the speakers are close to the walls or corners, the 896's bass is likely to overwhelm while if they are pulled out into the room, the 876 is likely to sound anemic in the low end. Ultimately, the bottom line is these are all quality speakers with smooth response and although we ideally want speakers that sound perfect out of the box, these will give you the sound you want with small EQ adjustments. With subs, you can put the subs where they interact best with the room. With speakers, it is a gamble that the room interaction with bass frequencies will work well where speakers must be located for proper presentation at the higher frequencies.
Canton decided to upgrade the Al tweeter to Ceramic in one of their most premium line-ups. I don't think they did this without lots of thought. If I was spending the money, it seems to me the A 45 or Reference 5.2 are the best bets.
Thanks again. I don't think Mark has the A45 in cherry. And there is also the problem that the A45 lacks that base piece of the other Canton models under consideration, which is a factor because of my thick carpet which would mean that the port opening would be right against the carpet. It was suggested to me that I could come up with some base piece myself, but I don't want to fool with that and am not handy in that way anyway.

I guess I had overlooked the Reference 5.2 on A4L web site. I read a couple of favorable reviews of it. As with the 3.2, they only have it in black, so I told Mark that I would have to check into how the WAF would be with black. My current speakers are sort of a cherry color.

Now, the next factor is the fact that the size and specs of the 5.2(70 pounds) are really similar to the Vento 896.2(66 pounds), which also has the ceramic tweeter for quite a bit less money. So, would I really be able to tell much difference between those two? Decisions, decisions....
 
Timforhifi

Timforhifi

Junior Audioholic
It is very interesting how the human brain works, and going back to my university days it’s not as clear as it once was. I remember though that the human brain holds on to smells for a lifetime. We can determine the smell of moms cooking or burnt rubber. Was a key primal feature to stay alive. Now sound is different we don’t have the space or the ability to remember all sounds for a long duration. You’ll remember the sound of your first baseball game, the crack of the bat. Or the sounds of a siren, but it needs to be a distinct memory. Offten when we describe a speaker or a sound from 20 years ago or even 6 months ago we are really describing how it made us feel. More of an emotional experience than a analytical analysis. Kinda the reason it’s harder and harder to remember the voices of loved ones that passed away. Now our brain many years ago for survival would remember the sound of predators like dinosaurs or lions.

So I definitely agree with KEW about needing to hear to both speakers in same room on same day on same gear. Luckily I’ve had a place that carries these close enough to me to demo.

I really like the 5.2 but I prefer the 896 and that’s why I bought them. I also really favor the 866.2 center over the 50.2 center.

if cost doesn’t matter I’d go to the reference k series but we all really have a budget. The difference from 5.2 to 896 is so minimal. The 896 does look better though with grill off and has more output with less power. That’s definitely my perception of my a/b test in the same room.

Mark was even doing that deal at the time where the 3.2 were $1999 each and you got a free 50.2 center. So $4000 for all 3. I paid $2800 for my 896 and $999 for my 866.2 center. I don’t regret at all spending $3800 for them. Even though I would of loved taking the reference series apart and seeing the black magic wiring. Lol. Real speaker cable company.

also the reference 3 doesn’t have magnetic grills and 3.2 might not either. Correct me on this if I’m wrong though. I can’t remember, but I had some reference 9.2 here that a friend let me try and they weren’t magnetic.

9.2 were great speakers but not even close to the 896 when turning up. Of course to me in my room.

@KEW have you ever tried the aluminum magnesium tweeters that canton uses? They surprised me a lot and I actually prefer my 518 over the kef r700 I tried for long time.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Mark does not have the Cherry in stock, but if you are willing to wait, he may be able to get one for you.
Any cabinet shop could whip you out a couple of 13X17X1/2 (or 3/4") panels in cherry or black and would not cost much. I'm not trying to hard sell you on the Cherry A 45 (Mark might not be able to get them anyway), but you should get exactly what you want and if that is A 45, I thought I'd point out these options.
 
Timforhifi

Timforhifi

Junior Audioholic
Mark does not have the Cherry in stock, but if you are willing to wait, he may be able to get one for you.
Any cabinet shop could whip you out a couple of 13X17X1/2 (or 3/4") panels in cherry or black and would not cost much. I'm not trying to hard sell you on the Cherry A 45 (Mark might not be able to get them anyway), but you should get exactly what you want and if that is A 45, I thought I'd point out these options.
Also can go to the local granite or countertop supplier. I’ve gotten scrap pieces for free. Would work well underneath a45. Or get some nice isolation spikes or feet. A lot of options really and I think canton design them to work right on top of carpet. I wouldn’t worry about that as much if you can get them in cherry.

real question is are the a45 even better than 896.2 especially for $4000 vs $2300. Especially since the newer a45 is $3200-3300 a pair msrp in Germany and 896.2 are $6200 a pair msrp. So it’s kinda a odd price we pay here and it’s makes the vento a real steal.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
So I definitely agree with KEW about needing to hear to both speakers in same room on same day on same gear. Luckily I’ve had a place that carries these close enough to me to demo.
Why don't you post their name and address so anyone who happens to be in the area can check them out!

@KEW have you ever tried the aluminum magnesium tweeters that canton uses? They surprised me a lot and I actually prefer my 518 over the kef r700 I tried for long time.
I heard the one in the Chrono 502.2. It seems likely to be the same as the Chrono 518 uses. It was not in the same league as the ceramic (to my ear) - not as clear and definitely not the full harmonics of the symphonic chimes that the ceramic provides.
Of course, the Reference version of the Al-Mg may be an entirely different animal!

Here is part of my post (post #7) after I first got (and auditioned) the Ventos and started by comparing them to the Chronos:
I briefly compared them to the Canton Chrono 502.2 and realized that was essentially pointless! As much as I like the Chronos, the Ventos were clearly in a different league. I could not detect anything that the Chronos did better (aside from keeping money in my wallet)! It is always nice to see such a strong correlation between price and performance, as that means their engineer/designers have a good methodology and are not wasting the extra budget on snake oil (though some might argue that the gloss finish is a waste)!
I also did other comparisons in the same post:
 
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S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
They have the 896.2 DC in cherry but the 866.2 center is in white or black. I think @Trell mentioned that before.
 
Timforhifi

Timforhifi

Junior Audioholic
As for the dealer in question I’ll leave that to him to post if he prefers. I respect his privacy and what he does for a living. His shop is not open to everyone, you have to get an appointment. Even has a waiting list due to his other profession.

As I said before I can contact him and his company to make an appointment. If anyone is ever interested.

speakers are very subjective for sure, I didn’t really care for the kef ls50. Even near field they lacked dynamics and did a poor job with instruments. Was more 2d sounding but decent vocals.
 
Timforhifi

Timforhifi

Junior Audioholic
I almost did cherry 896 with black center. Kinda wish I would of.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
real question is are the a45 even better than 896.2 especially for $4000 vs $2300. Especially since the newer a45 is $3200-3300 a pair msrp in Germany and 896.2 are $6200 a pair msrp. So it’s kinda a odd price we pay here and it’s makes the vento a real steal.
That is a good question. Certainly part of the inconsistency is the A 45 is a factory direct price while the Vento MSRP requires the dealer markup. I have not seen something like that here (in the USA) that I can think of. Competing with the stores that sell your product is not the way to have good relations with your resellers. Maybe it is a European thing, LOL!
 

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