Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
I hit a nerve, didn’t I? With a dumb response from you.

I did read the non-WSJ from some outfit selling “security info” something you probably didn’t.



This one of the most dumb comments I’ve read in a while. Do you even know what a paywalled article even means?

For the second time in a few days you refuse to provide any quote from a WSJ article behind a paywall. So you either don’t have a subscription or you didn’t read it, apart from the headline, or both.
Again, try to comprehend this time, I have a subscription to the WSJ, read the article, linked it so others who have a subscription but did not read the article could if they wanted to. Then merely provided a link(on the same subject) for those that didn't have a subscription.

Quit making a mountain out of a mole hill !!
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Again, try to comprehend this time, I have a subscription to the WSJ, read the article, linked it so others who have a subscription but did not read the article could if they wanted to. Then merely provided a link(on the same subject) for those that didn't have a subscription.

Quit making a mountain out of a mole hill !!
Yeah, an article that requires a subscription is not, according to you, paywalled. :snicker:

I still cannot access it though.

If you actually have a WSJ subscription, as you repeatedly claim, then why don’t you post a relevant quote from the article behind the paywall when repeatedly asked for it?
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
here you go, happy now !

The killing, which Swedish authorities say they believe was a revenge shooting, opened a new chapter of brutality in a wave of gang violence that has turned Sweden, usually known as a peaceful welfare state, into a gun-homicide hot spot in Europe.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
here you go, happy now !

The killing, which Swedish authorities say they believe was a revenge shooting, opened a new chapter of brutality in a wave of gang violence that has turned Sweden, usually known as a peaceful welfare state, into a gun-homicide hot spot in Europe.
Any thoughts on how this recent Swedish increase in gun-homocides compares to USA? Your linked article is from Match 2023 so you should be able to find comparable statistics.
 
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T

TankTop5

Audioholic Field Marshall
Can we simply make irresponsible parents accessories to their childs crimes?
Yes, yes we can. Parents are already financially responsible for their children, making them criminally responsible for negligence that lead to their children gaining access to firearms I think is already law most places
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Can we simply make irresponsible parents accessories to their childs crimes?
They could, but proof is needed and when people lie.....

Assuming you're referring to the little dear in GA, the FBI had him on their radar last year when he was 13- they interviewed him AND his dad, who said the son didn't have access to guns in the house while unsupervised, but apparently, the authorities didn't bother to stay up on him in the interim and the FBI left it to local law enforcement. I saw a report on CNN that mentioned communication early in the day, stating that multiple schools would have shootings, starting with the one where this happened. Nice job! Get a warning and do NOTHING about it.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
Can we simply make irresponsible parents accessories to their childs crimes?
And stop putting gun industry profits over kids as well? And guns safety laws along with appropriate enforcement.

Though I think that parents are responsible for the children's crimes already, to varying degree, of course.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
And stop putting gun industry profits over kids as well? And guns safety laws along with appropriate enforcement.

Though I think that parents are responsible for the children's crimes already, to varying degree, of course.
The profits over kids only applies to new guns- the manufacturers make nothing from stolen guns, which you know. I have serious problems with the way guns are marketed and the association with over-reactive members of the NRA.

The problem in many cases is that gun owners (legal or otherwise) are too stupid to store their gun(s) in a way that would prevent access by someone who shouldn't be able to. Guns are left in cars by legal owners far too often and I think they should lose their legal status for concealed carry, at the least. In Milwaukee, more than 1000 guns were stolen from cars in one year and at least one was owned by a police officer.

District Attorneys don't always prosecute for the actual crime, they often work out a plea deal with the lawyers and that lets the criminal avoid lengthy jail/prison time and lowers the costs. Judges sometimes release suspects at lower bond/bail when someone comes in with a sob story about how this is all affecting their life, taking them away from the wife/girlfriend and kid(s), even though, as in the case of the A-hole who drove into a parade crowd (killed six, injured more than 60), he had previously run over his girlfriend/mother of his child. That turd was released for the low, low, low cost of $500, paid once again, by his enabler mother. He had used her car in both incidents.

The judge in this case left the bench in April, 2023, not a moment too soon.

The practice of releasing suspects without trial, with low bond/fleeing and not going to trial is killing people- literally. It also allows crime waves to continue and the main thing that happens with many criminals is that they have more street cred after being arrested/jailed more frequently and for longer time.

Schools are supposed to be 'gun free zones'- that's obviously not working.

For the cheap seats- In Milwaukee, the school system hasn't followed the state's decision that police officers be in some schools- they don't call them 'police officers', they softened it to 'School Resource Officer' because, apparently, it triggers some kind of emotional response in the students who often come from violent homes and neighborhoods. Now, the students are saying they don't feel safe with the officers in the schools, but I don't remember seeing anything about a major event, aside from the ones started by the students. The Milwaukee Police Union president asked "If they don't want officers in the schools, why are they calling?", due to the more than 3100 calls last year, when the schools had fights, etc.

For years inner city residents had a 'Snitches get stitches' attitude to giving info to the police about various crimes because retaliation was extremely common but they also cried and wailed when someone was killed, shouting "Where was (were) the Po-lice, to stop this?????".

The laws are in place but they're not necessarily being enforced. Law enforcement, prosecutors and judges are very responsible for a lot of the needless deaths. Yesterday's shootings could have been prevented, but they chose to do nothing.

I was discussing this kind of thing yesterday and thought that metal detectors should be at every school entrance but in Wisconsin, students & parents must be informed about occasional scanning and they're only installed when a school has had warnings that warrant some action- I'm sure the ACLU is behind this and is trying to prevent 1984 from occurring in real life- I don't have problems with some of their pet causes but they believe that people should have an expectation of privacy when they're in public places. If it saves lives, why would they not want to do something?

This is interesting- if something happens at a Milwaukee school, I KNOW the first thing that will happen is frantic calls to the Police. They cut all but one contract with the PD and that one is only to address chronic truancy, which is far too common. And where do the little dears go/what do they do when they're not at school when they're supposed to be? They're not at work- carjacking/theft, breaking into cars & homes, armed robbery and shootings are being committed by more 10-16 year old kids than ever before. Yes, ten year old kids.


This is happening in many places in the US.
 
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Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
District Attorneys don't always prosecute for the actual crime, they often work out a plea deal with the lawyers and that lets the criminal avoid lengthy jail/prison time and lowers the costs. Judges sometimes release suspects at lower bond/bail when someone comes in with a sob story about how this is all affecting their life, taking them away from the wife/girlfriend and kid(s), even though, as in the case of the A-hole who drove into a parade crowd (killed six, injured more than 60), he had previously run over his girlfriend/mother of his child. That turd was released for the low, low, low cost of $500, paid once again, by his enabler mother. He had used her car in both incidents.

The judge in this case left the bench in April, 2023, not a moment too soon.

The practice of releasing suspects without trial, with low bond/fleeing and not going to trial is killing people- literally. It also allows crime waves to continue and the main thing that happens with many criminals is that they have more street cred after being arrested/jailed more frequently and for longer time.

Schools are supposed to be 'gun free zones'- that's obviously not working.

For the cheap seats- In Milwaukee, the school system hasn't followed the state's decision that police officers be in some schools- they don't call them 'police officers', they softened it to 'School Resource Officer' because, apparently, it triggers some kind of emotional response in the students who often come from violent homes and neighborhoods. Now, the students are saying they don't feel safe with the officers in the schools, but I don't remember seeing anything about a major event, aside from the ones started by the students. The Milwaukee Police Union president asked "If they don't want officers in the schools, why are they calling?", due to the more than 3100 calls last year, when the schools had fights, etc.

For years inner city residents had a 'Snitches get stitches' attitude to giving info to the police about various crimes because retaliation was extremely common but they also cried and wailed when someone was killed, shouting "Where was (were) the Po-lice, to stop this?????".

The laws are in place but they're not necessarily being enforced. Law enforcement, prosecutors and judges are very responsible for a lot of the needless deaths. Yesterday's shootings could have been prevented, but they chose to do nothing.

I was discussing this kind of thing yesterday and thought that metal detectors should be at every school entrance but in Wisconsin, students & parents must be informed about occasional scanning and they're only installed when a school has had warnings that warrant some action- I'm sure the ACLU is behind this and is trying to prevent 1984 from occurring in real life- I don't have problems with some of their pet causes but they believe that people should have an expectation of privacy when they're in public places. If it saves lives, why would they not want to do something?

This is interesting- if something happens at a Milwaukee school, I KNOW the first thing that will happen is frantic calls to the Police. They cut all but one contract with the PD and that one is only to address chronic truancy, which is far too common. And where do the little dears go/what do they do when they're not at school when they're supposed to be? They're not at work- carjacking/theft, breaking into cars & homes, armed robbery and shootings are being committed by more 10-16 year old kids than ever before. Yes, ten year old kids.


This is happening in many places in the US.
You've made it very, very, very clear over the years that you think that Milwaukee is the supreme foul-smelling hairy armpit anus of the world with Democrats/ACLU/WOKE/COMMIES/ETC responsible for all ills and then some, however tenuous. ;)

As usual, easy access to weapons continue to be an issue, don't you think?

And btw neither @Mikado463 nor anyone else cared to reply my post just above. Says it all how hollow your "arguments" are: ;)

"Any thoughts on how this recent Swedish increase in gun-homocides compares to USA? Your linked article is from Match 2023 so you should be able to find comparable statistics. "
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Maybe the SCOTUS originalists should wake up about the 2nd amendment and apply it to muskets only. After all that is what they had at the time. And I don't see where it stated that guns cannot be regulated. No, they are not blameless.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Maybe the SCOTUS originalists should wake up about the 2nd amendment and apply it to muskets only. After all that is what they had at the time. And I don't see where it stated that guns cannot be regulated. No, they are not blameless.
I think the founders were keenly aware that technology was a thing back then and it changed. There's a reason specific weapons weren't mentioned. Then you also need to look at the other end of the spectrum and they had no clue you would wipe out a city in the future with a single munition.
 
T

trochetier

Audioholic
GA gun laws - https://thegunzone.com/gun-laws/georgia-gun-laws/

-https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-2/
Second amendment - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. " (Emphasis mine)


46% of American households own at least one firearm according to a study by the University of Chicago. 32% of Americans say they personally own a firearm according to the 2021 National Firearms Survey. This means that more than 81.4 million Americans own guns. This number only includes adults over 18.

We must have the BIGGEST well regulated militia in the world!
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Should make a children's ballistic vest and call the company 'Thoughts and Prayers'.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
"Colin Gray, 54, was charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter, two counts of second-degree murder and eight counts of cruelty to children"
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
One thing key I read in that article " Studies by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security have shown that around 75% of all school shooters obtained their weapons at home. ". Locking up more parents might have some real impact. If a parent doesn't want to go to jail, take action on your firearms at home, secure your guns. . But like anything over here, guns of any kind can be bought on the streets of any-town USA.
 
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