Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

[Dude#1279435]

Remember when some were suggesting teachers be armed. A kid could potentially overpower them. Just what we need. Best to hire a trained guard.

 

[highfigh]

Remember when some were suggesting teachers be armed. A kid could potentially overpower them. Just what we need. Best to hire a trained guard.

I agree if they arm teachers who can't defend themselves but some teachers are very capable, such as former military, hunters, those who are involved in martial arts, etc. Being older, I remember at least a half dozen teachers who had been in the Military and the metal shop teacher was a Marine- he took crap from nobody and disciplinary problems were handled very quickly. OTOH, some teachers were so emotional that they didn't handle minor conflicts well, so they would be bad candidates for carrying weapons.

I agree with trained guards, but are they rent a cops, or real cops?

 

[Dude#1279435]

I agree if they arm teachers who can't defend themselves but some teachers are very capable, such as former military, hunters, those who are involved in martial arts, etc. Being older, I remember at least a half dozen teachers who had been in the Military and the metal shop teacher was a Marine- he took crap from nobody and disciplinary problems were handled very quickly. OTOH, some teachers were so emotional that they didn't handle minor conflicts well, so they would be bad candidates for carrying weapons.

I agree with trained guards, but are they rent a cops, or real cops?

Not sure which security, but the point is armed teachers of any kind doesnt seem a good idea.

 

[davidscott]

I agree with having trained security guards not teachers. Preferably off duty cops or ex-military. What he have now is obviously not working.

 

[highfigh]

Not sure which security, but the point is armed teachers of any kind doesnt seem a good idea.

Because it doesn't let the kids discriminate between gun handlers and teacher? I can see that if the kids are very young and/or older and more sensitive. IMO, too many schools got rid of the school resource officers, but I don't know why they can't be called 'security officers'.

 

[davidscott]

Because it doesn't let the kids discriminate between gun handlers and teacher? I can see that if the kids are very young and/or older and more sensitive. IMO, too many schools got rid of the school resource officers, but I don't know why they can't be called 'security officers'.

Agreed.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Because it doesn't let the kids discriminate between gun handlers and teacher? I can see that if the kids are very young and/or older and more sensitive. IMO, too many schools got rid of the school resource officers, but I don't know why they can't be called 'security officers'.

Because too many guns in a school building isn't a good idea. Particularly teachers who have direct contact with students.

 

[Mikado463]

Finland's approach .............

MSN

 

[Dude#1279435]

Finland's approach .............

MSN

Hmmm......by having more of it.
Its also just a slide show with a few paragraphs that could bring benefits. I liked how the one sentence said something about bringing in revenue LOL.
I've handled a gun a few times in my life. Never was a real big fan of them. Conceal is ok I guess, but I choose not to and accept what little risk I think is out there. I can't really wrap my head around reducing incidents by having more of it.
Regarding schools I think that's where the gun culture thing gets a bit outta control. Arming teachers is weird to me. I'd rather go metal detectors in high crime areas with a few armed guards.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.... I can't really wrap my head around reducing incidents by having more of it.
....

One needs to ask, how did we do in the 60's to the 80's with less guns compared to the 2000's with a hell of a lot more guns.

What did the NRA do back then compared to today?

 

[Dude#1279435]

I think an area where arms/security makes a lot of sense is with celebrities and the wealthy.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Still though one of the best on fenced properties is owning a couple dogs LOL.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Doesn't do much for the brand, eh?

 

[cpp]

Doesn't do much for the brand, eh?
View attachment 67027

An example of two worthless Congressional Trump ass kissers.,

 

[highfigh]

Hmmm......by having more of it.
Its also just a slide show with a few paragraphs that could bring benefits. I liked how the one sentence said something about bringing in revenue LOL.
I've handled a gun a few times in my life. Never was a real big fan of them. Conceal is ok I guess, but I choose not to and accept what little risk I think is out there. I can't really wrap my head around reducing incidents by having more of it.
Regarding schools I think that's where the gun culture thing gets a bit outta control. Arming teachers is weird to me. I'd rather go metal detectors in high crime areas with a few armed guards.

The article wasn't very in-depth. My guess is that this program began as a way to make sure the general population is prepared in case Putin goes completely nuts and attacks everyone nearby. If the Russian troops go in with the intention of killing everyone, it means they have believed the indoctrination and believe they're the good ones and everyone else is bad. That is the opposite of everyone I have met who came to the US from USSR/CZ/Russia/Ukraine- they all came to get away from the BS of Communism.

Metal detectors scare people, especially kids. I honestly think people have been raised to feel, rather than think- people used to be self sufficient and now, they need help with simple tasks and can't handle conflicts without either going into the fetal position or resorting to violence.

But again, Finland has people who were taught and raised differently from people in the US. They have completely different history, traditions and lifestyle. One thing Finland isn't, is a melting pot and while some don't like to consider it, that does make the US very different.

 

[highfigh]

One needs to ask, how did we do in the 60's to the 80's with less guns compared to the 2000's with a hell of a lot more guns.

What did the NRA do back then compared to today?

That was a long time ago, the US has 80% more people than in 1965 and I'm not sure why you would ask this question if you know how the country has changed since that year. The US population hit 300 million in 2006 and now, it's ~334 million, most of the addition is from outside of the country- the US birth rate has been declining for a long time.

Some of the reasons for the increase in gun crimes:
- Bad parenting and kids who have learned that they deserve absolute respect just for existing, don't respect others or their property and can't handle conflicts without being violent
- The education system
- Many more gangs who are much more violent
- Rampant drug use and the illegal drug market
- The changes in racial relations
- Congress and government, in general
- NRA, under Charleton Heston and Wayne LaPierre- remember Heston's comment "You can have my guns when you pry them from my cold, dead hands"?
- Movies and TV, glamorizing violence and dulling our sense of outrage, shock and disgust
- Mainstream Media, who just have to be first on scene, showing murders, attacks and mayhem in real time, rather than presenting it later, in a way that doesn't cause people to freak out. F&ck them with their "Live, Local, Late-breaking" bullshyte!

A lot of people and groups are responsible, IMO- the level of hatred has gone up in ways that would have been inconceivable in the '60s. We didn't lock our garage until around '67, after someone went in and swapped a rusty front wheel on my brother's bike and we started locking our house soon after. That act, which would be thought of as 'insignificant' now, shocked our neighborhood.

I would like for someone to wipe the smiles off of the faces of newscasters when they report terrible incidents.

 

[highfigh]

Still though one of the best on fenced properties is owning a couple dogs LOL.

That's easy to get around- if someone really wants to enter and not deal with the dogs, they can & do use poison. IMO, anyone who does that deserves the same. However, even dogs that are inside will go ballistic when someone is in the yard.

 

[dlaloum]

So, is that a people problem?

When laws are designed with more loopholes than limitations.... yeah you could call that a people problem... they were designed by people.

 

[Dude#1279435]

The article wasn't very in-depth. My guess is that this program began as a way to make sure the general population is prepared in case Putin goes completely nuts and attacks everyone nearby. If the Russian troops go in with the intention of killing everyone, it means they have believed the indoctrination and believe they're the good ones and everyone else is bad. That is the opposite of everyone I have met who came to the US from USSR/CZ/Russia/Ukraine- they all came to get away from the BS of Communism.

Metal detectors scare people, especially kids. I honestly think people have been raised to feel, rather than think- people used to be self sufficient and now, they need help with simple tasks and can't handle conflicts without either going into the fetal position or resorting to violence.

But again, Finland has people who were taught and raised differently from people in the US. They have completely different history, traditions and lifestyle. One thing Finland isn't, is a melting pot and while some don't like to consider it, that does make the US very different.

I dunno that it couldn't work. I'm just saying I need more information than a slide show with a couple paragraphs.

 

[Dude#1279435]

My new job is at a homeless apartment, so there are problems. One guy just threatened me and is a consistent problem. So I thought maybe get a pair of brass knuckles. Ah no those are prohibited. But I guess you can conceal & carry. WTF? I'm gonna guess both would be prohibited at the apartment.

We will see how long I last there. I know I couldn't have done it at a younger age. Needles, drugs, and it's generally not a good area. People at the next property sleeping on the ground. Pretty sure I saw one woman hooking. It's a different world that's for sure. Some have problems but seem like they can improve themselves. Others I imagine could never hold down a job. Key to drugs: don't ever start.