Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

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Dude#1279435

Audioholic Ninja
In a YT video, Dennis Prager said it would be his honor and one of the highlights of my career to tell parents of children killed that gun control laws will not stop shooters. Note the wording used. These are actual quotes. Sumpin' wrong with that fella.:( (If you're arguing policy, that's not my point.)
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
I don't think cannabis consumption is much of a contributing factor to criminal behaviour.

A major contributing factor is Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD). The last estimate I saw for Canada was 4% of the population affected to varying degrees, although that is considered an underestimate. For those affected by FASD, involvement with the justice system is several times higher (actual numbers vary, depending on the study) than for the general population. While I would guess that severity can depend on the quantity/frequency of consumption when pregnant, any alcohol consumption is considered unsafe.
The consumption of pot isn't what directly causes violence, it's dealers/money/guns/gangs/cartels. It can be- there's nothing that says someone can't be violent after using pot (can't assume they smoked it, anymore) but it's also important to remember that violent people aren't the '60s & '70s stoners who just hang out, listen to music and have the munchies.

When people can't find a way to get wasted in the typical ways, they'll find something else. Huffing is still popular and it's not just spray paint- it's just about any solvent or even gasoline- I watched a program about the indigenous people in Alaska and the problems they have in everyday life, with videos showing people who were addicted to alcohol, drugs and 10-15 year old kids stumbling around with trash bags that had gasoline in them, occasionally stopping to huff it again. The doctors said that when they perform autopsies on huffers, the brains of the deceased are like Swiss cheese. After they do this for awhile, they can't do much of anything for themselves or others. That was awful.
 
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highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Dealing would be criminal. Using would be a health intervention.
What if they were prescribed? Drugs prescribed by doctors and used only by patients are responsible for a lot of deaths, but often, the drugs are found in homes by someone who just wants drugs and that's killing a lot of kids AND adults.
 
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highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
About the only other thing I can think of greater restrictions on assault guns and high capacity mags in the *hope* that some point in the future there will be less of them around. I'm sure the NRA loves me for it.;)
And still no mention by you of trying to get people to stop being violent. At some point, people will be back in the Stone Age and killing each other with their bare hands because that's all they'll have access to.

The 1994 ban on AR-style weapons didn't help- that's the reason it wasn't renewed. If it had, Obama could have used 'his pen and his phone' to get something done about it.

Who cares what the NRA thinks about your comments?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
---Neither is shooting 10 people.

---Weapons are called 'force multipliers'. When it's you and someone else and they have a weapon with 15 rounds it's 15:0.

---I'm referring to people with weapons. Not people.

---You START by doing something, anything. As time goes on those weapons will matriculate out of genpop.

---You don't need a high capacity, over penetration, long rifle.

--Can you actually effectively use a long or short barrel rifle with high capacity mag sitting in the drivers seat of a car.

--I keep a can of bear spray. With the upside being that I'm at better odds of not hesitating to use it and if my kid gets a hold of it not blowing the back of the skull out.
No, shooting ten people isn't sane and I have posted many times that shooting people, whether targeted or randomly, isn't sane- mass shootings are anything but sane.

Force multiplier or not, if someone has a decent arm and plenty of hard/sharp things to throw, they can fend off someone with a gun at short distance.

The difference between most people and people with a weapon- if they have a weapon, they're either prepared to defend themselves against trouble or intending to cause trouble. If someone intends to cause trouble and they're motivated enough, most laws will do nothing to stop them.

WRT that 14 year old who had the high capacity magazine, they're already illegal, how and why would you want to just wait until they 'matriculate' out of genpop? How does that word even apply to this?


YOU might not need a high powered rifle, but imagine living in an area where crackheads and meth heads frequently break into homes while on those drugs. PCP is still in use, too. If you shoot someone who's on one of these, one shot won't usually stop them. For that matter, multiple shots won't, unless something vital is hit. Ever see someone who had injected Cocaine when they're in a fight? They don't feel much, if any, pain. I saw one when he was shoplifting from a Sears store when I worked at a stereo store n a mall- he was not giving up, even when he had two cops hanging on for dear life. If this had happened more recently, he might have had a gun and people would have been shot. Gun use, even by criminals, was far less frequent in the early-'80s.

What changed? People changed.

Yes, a long gun can be used when in the driver's seat of a car. Hard to use it to shoot someone IN the car, but easy to shoot people outside, like when they spray a house as a way to take revenge, whether it's the correct address, or not. Can also spray bullets at cars- that happens frequently and often, the shooter is halfway out of a window, sometimes, sitting on the ledge. The shooter in this video fired at the other car with his hand out of the window (he was in the car at the right)-


Bear spray is great for keeping kids from killing themselves but pretty useless at any distance over about 30'. Great for up close & personal, unless the attacker has a weapon and they have been exposed to it before. Most who served in the military have been exposed to various gases used for controlling people, like pepper sprays, tear gas, etc. Also, if you think the other guy will be the only one who's affected by your bear spray, guess again. Anyone nearby is gonna get a snootfull and even if a tiny amount is released, it's some nasty stuff. I hope you never need to use it.

Most people justify the gun(s) they have for bullshyte reasons. Need has replaced 'want' for millions and that, along with not maintaining a safe place to store their guns, is one of the min causes of death for thousands of people. The number of stolen guns has risen because:

People are stupid
People become complacent
People assume nobody will break into their house (ironic, because that's a common reason used for buying them)
People are opportunistic and will take whatever is easy, even if they know it will lead to someone's death
People are insecure and feel the need to act like some kind of Rambo character when they talk about or handle guns. The latter leads to a lot of shootings, sometimes death.
People think they can handle weapons safely, even if they're drunk or on drugs. They can't and often don't.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Here's a good example of another problem: poop policing and incompetent courts. Watch it all the way through for the irony...

Here's another case where the DA declined to keep the city safe and he's getting a lot of shyte for it-

 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Ninja
And still no mention by you of trying to get people to stop being violent. At some point, people will be back in the Stone Age and killing each other with their bare hands because that's all they'll have access to.

The 1994 ban on AR-style weapons didn't help- that's the reason it wasn't renewed. If it had, Obama could have used 'his pen and his phone' to get something done about it.

Who cares what the NRA thinks about your comments?
Dems believe guns are the problem; Repubs think people are. I said I was somewhere in the middle (ie multiple approaches). I believe the goal in the future is to reduce the amount of assault weapons being manufactured. They're for recreation, or to kill.
 
O

OHMisback

Audioholic
One thing for sure. There is a lot of questions and not many options, that I personally like. I'm pretty sure it was easier to figure out when I was a kid building a tree house or something.. That transistor radio sure worked well the higher you went in the tree, but not so well if you dropped it though. Can you even climb a tree, legally NOW? Just asking.

The tree house I can't imagine. That's at least a 3 alarm incident and a 20K bill for fire, safety and rescue (of the tree) :) "Tree assaulted by hammer and nails" "Appears to be recovering after rescue" "No word on 10 year old kid", "Arraigned on 2 million dollar bail", Parents say "keep the kid, we have 2 more spares". LOL

Is there an answer? If not firearms, it's sticks and stones, I bet, it was when I was a kid..

I think it's something in TATTOO ink. They been lacing the stuff with crazy.. :)
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Here's another case where the DA declined to keep the city safe and he's getting a lot of shyte for it-

Here's a good article intentional shootings of officers has risen to an all time high according to the FBI

 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Dems believe guns are the problem; Repubs think people are. I said I was somewhere in the middle (ie multiple approaches). I believe the goal in the future is to reduce the amount of assault weapons being manufactured. They're for recreation, or to kill.
I think we need to prevent many people from getting guns. How they do it will be debated but it needs to be done. As I have posted many times, the stigma attached to mental illness needs to go away. Nobody wants others to know they're struggling, but seriously, they need to get help.
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
Since the media seems to focus and report that mass shootings are a white young men issue, well not all, but they are ones they choose to sensationalize, it begs the question as to why. Many here have posted thoughts and theories for discussion. Was sent the following thread today. It resonated with me as I have just finished (out of college) raising both a girl and boy. Many of these observations are familiar to me and some colleagues in the current culture and education system in the past 10 years.

A few thoughts: For what it's worth and for perspective it's one observation from a 18 year old kid. Before reading it, think of what you were like at the same age and how you might have reacted to this experience. Also, carve out the color/race part of it and think of this from what a young Latin or Black male would think of the way they are treated by feminized teachers. Think it might have an effect on their self esteem and future?

 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Feminized teachers? Seriously? Were you ever a teacher? How about your parents?
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
Feminized teachers? Seriously? Were you ever a teacher? How about your parents?
I read that and thought "maybe it's cause most teachers are women" that someone would think their boy would be feminized...if that's a thing.

What does this mean? Femanized?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I read that and thought "maybe it's cause most teachers are women" that someone would think their boy would be feminized...if that's a thing.

What does this mean? Femanized?
Maybe it's like how catholic priests semenized their prey?
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
Feminized teachers? Seriously? Were you ever a teacher? How about your parents?
It's a term for both the number of female teachers outweighing males in the profession by a large margin as well as the pro girl / anti male agenda pushed on the boys. Easy to look it up. The teaching profession in my family is well represented going back many generations. My wife and one of my kids teach in elementary school. Personally, have taught both university undergrad and classes in the corporate world. Also mentored young post college grads coming into the workforce as well as young executives into their late 30s..

Thankfully, I don't have personal experience with "semenizing" priests but have heard plenty of stories from friends. And Rome wonders why the church has no credibility...
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
It's a term for both the number of female teachers outweighing males in the profession by a large margin as well as the pro girl / anti male agenda pushed on the boys. Easy to look it up. The teaching profession in my family is well represented going back many generations. My wife and one of my kids teach in elementary school. Personally, have taught both university undergrad and classes in the corporate world. Also mentored young post college grads coming into the workforce as well as young executives into their late 30s..

Thankfully, I don't have personal experience with "semenizing" priests but have heard plenty of stories from friends. And Rome wonders why the church has no credibility...
It's difficult for me to picture what it's like for boys in school now, being taught predominantly by women. I didn't have any female teachers after Grade 3. Not one. And, my teachers were all typical men from where I grew up - they generally hunted, fished and built their own houses. The profession certainly wasn't viewed as being "for women".
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
It's difficult for me to picture what it's like for boys in school now, being taught predominantly by women. I didn't have any female teachers after Grade 3. Not one. And, my teachers were all typical men from where I grew up - they generally hunted, fished and built their own houses. The profession certainly wasn't viewed as being "for women".
I pretty much only had female teachers growing up. I'm not old, but I'm not that young either. I had male teachers, but they were few and far between.

Granted, I did play sports a bit back then and they were obviously all male, but I never worried one bit about whether my teacher was a guy or not. I don't really think it matters.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I pretty much only had female teachers growing up. I'm not old, but I'm not that young either. I had male teachers, but they were few and far between.

Granted, I did play sports a bit back then and they were obviously all male, but I never worried one bit about whether my teacher was a guy or not. I don't really think it matters.
Majority of my teachers were also female, only ones who would work for such low wages. My dad started out as a teacher but after they had me realized that wasn't gonna work out...and my mom taught most of her life (and was damn good at it, too).
 
SithZedi

SithZedi

Audioholic General
Majority of my teachers were also female, only ones who would work for such low wages. My dad started out as a teacher but after they had me realized that wasn't gonna work out...and my mom taught most of her life (and was damn good at it, too).
IMHO, think it's an important issue most especially for boys who might not have a father figure at home. The system has to find away to recruit more talent in whether financially or remove some of cultural barriers. Have suggested over the years to our school board to recruit from the recently retired pool of men with private sector experience but it is ignored.

 
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