Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

[Mikado463]

Watch: MSOE student expresses fear following mass shooting on Water Street

17 people were shot on Water St. in downtown Milwaukee Friday night, according to Milwaukee Police.

www.tmj4.com

Sadly, Milwaukee, like so many other cities around this country, this has become the norm. It's a rare news hour anymore here in Philly when the opening is not related to shootings, stabbings or other violent crime. Our cities have truly become cesspools ......

 

[cpp]

think we should require a government-issued photo ID to vote,

Got that right

 

[highfigh]

Sadly, Milwaukee, like so many other cities around this country, this has become the norm. It's a are news hour anymore here in Philly when the opening is not related to shootings, stabbings or other violent crime. Our cities have truly become cesspools ......

These asssholes are just not capable of understanding how society is supposed to work.

Rule #1- LEAVE OTHER PEOPLE ALONE!
#2- DON'T BE A lord helmet

This was less than a block from the Fiserve Auditorium, which is where the Bucks were playing against the Boston Celtics in game 6- apparently, it was an actual gunfight between two groups, among a crowd of more than 11K people!

I think the city needs to impose a curfew without notice and search EVERY GD house for weapons, allowing absolutely nobody to leave until the search is over. If someone wants to leave, they need a good GD reason and they need to prove it, or they stay in place. Every building, every car, every dumpster and every yard, searched with metal detectors and dogs. They should be able to get some kind of blanket warrant for this- it's in the interest of public safety.

This kind of poop is exactly why gun control/laws in the way it has been proposed will never work.

 

[highfigh]

The latest report shows that 21 were shot, not 17.

What kind of brain damage makes people think this is OK?

 

[Mikado463]

Another mass shooting, this time my home town, Buffalo, NY.

7 shot, happened at a grocery store, shooter in custody.

 

[3db]

I think GONAD is right. If mass shootings make up the smallest number of deaths, then the only logical conclusion that can be reached whether one likes it or not is that there is simply too much weaponary available in the US. Keeping guns from the mentally ill makes sense but it will not alter the statistics of gun related deaths by very much. It will just reduce the sensationalism found in the news.

The REAL question becomes, how do you reduce gun violence in the US by the non mentally ill?

 

[3db]

But who are you or anyone else to decide what I, a free citizen of the United States can or cannot own, what arrogance! What particular use do they need? How many houses or cars should I own, how much stereo equipment? Frankly it’s none of your business! How about we simply hold people accountable for the misuse of their property, you know, personal responsibility. If someone kills someone with one of my firearms that they stole because I didn’t properly secure it I’m responsible. Same with your car, someone breaks into your garage, steals your car and kills a pedestrian while fleeing the police you’re responsible. Everyone can have whatever they want as long as they are responsible for it. If your dog bites someone you’re responsible same as if your teenager drives the car through someone’s fence. Everyone is responsible and you hold them accountable, it’s actually pretty simple.

So the person pulling the trigger or driving over pedestarians isn't responsible? Just checking.

 

[3db]

Personally, I think owning a gun should be regulated at least as much as getting a driver's license, but unfortunately the 2nd amendment does say, "shall not be infringed". "Infringed" looks like a carefully chosen word. Other amendments use terms like "shall not be abridged", which to my eyes seems to allow more latitude. Of course, I also think we should require a government-issued photo ID to vote, so I'm clearly not aligned with liberals or conservatives as groups.

Hey Irv.. LTNS.

That's the kicker.. 2nd amendment. But the word amendment relates to change of something that needs fixing to a document which already exists. I think another amendment is needed to fix the 2nd amendment because the 2nd amendment has clearly outlived it usefulness and is no longer required. Unfortunately, the gun lobbying groups and the NRA have the most to lose by altering the 2nd amendment and they don't want to lose their power base.

 

[Old Onkyo]

Another mass shooting, this time my home town, Buffalo, NY.

7 shot, happened at a grocery store, shooter in custody.

A little more serious than that, but praise God for the brave police officers that apprehended the shooter!

How are so many of the Blacks killed by police by accident, or mistake, or a traffic stop, but white mass murders of Blacks are calmly walked out of the crime scene?

I I wonder where they took him for dinner….

 

[highfigh]

I think GONAD is right. If mass shootings make up the smallest number of deaths, then the only logical conclusion that can be reached whether one likes it or not is that there is simply too much weaponary available in the US. Keeping guns from the mentally ill makes sense but it will not alter the statistics of gun related deaths by very much. It will just reduce the sensationalism found in the news.

The REAL question becomes, how do you reduce gun violence in the US by the non mentally ill?

The stigma WRT mental illness needs to end and mentally ill need to be treated. In MKE, several recent shootings happened because they weren't being treated, they decided to stop taking their meds and the families knew about the illness- whether they tried to help or if they were unable to get help is unknown at this time.

I think we would see fewer suicides, but many who go that route are generally 'normal' until they make the decision (or the attempt).

Even if all gun sales were required to be done on paper and through someone who's authorized to handle them (most sales require this already), I know many people would continue to violate the law- they do it now and that won't change.

 

[highfigh]

Sadly, Milwaukee, like so many other cities around this country, this has become the norm. It's a rare news hour anymore here in Philly when the opening is not related to shootings, stabbings or other violent crime. Our cities have truly become cesspools ......

And as more reports about the incident DURING the Bucks game come out, we're hearing that there were three separate shooting incidents, the second two happening while the area was crawling with cops. One MPS spokesperson being interviewed said officers heard bullets whizzing past their heads. If these morons will shoot while the police are present, WTF will it take to stop the violence?

In other news, three others died from gunshot wounds on Friday, separate from the downtown shootings.

The Mayor has imposed a curfew after 11PM in that area for people age 21 and under and has contacted the Governor's office about bringing the National guard in- I hate to say it, but I think it's time for that and at this rate, it's gonna be a shytty Summer.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Again, while mental illness may be a significant factor contributing to gun violence, it is beside the point. Every country has mental health issues. The main difference is the sheer quantity of firearms circulating in the US. And, it isn't just an internal American problem. The drug gang wars in Mexico are being conducted primarily with smuggled US weapons.

The worst mass shooting in Canadian history was carried out with smuggled weapons from the US.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/how-the-nova-scotia-mass-shooter-smuggled-guns-into-canada-1.6437579

 

[highfigh]

Again, while mental illness may be a significant factor contributing to gun violence, it is beside the point. Every country has mental health issues. The main difference is the sheer quantity of firearms circulating in the US. And, it isn't just an internal American problem. The drug gang wars in Mexico are being conducted primarily with smuggled US weapons.

The worst mass shooting in Canadian history was carried out with smuggled weapons from the US.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/how-the-nova-scotia-mass-shooter-smuggled-guns-into-canada-1.6437579

I think other countries treat the mentally ill better than we do here, on average. MKE does have programs and people do seek treatment, but many just let it go and suffer through it.

So many guns are stolen because people are irresponsible but they aren't the only sources- gun dealers lost almost 54K weapons 2012-2019, according to the link.

Gun Theft in the United States: A State-by-State Analysis

Gun theft is rampant in states across the country, leaving all of our communities vulnerable to violent gun crime.

www.americanprogress.org

All of your examples show people being turds. THAT is the basic problem- they can't stop. Would you go to Mexico, El Salvador or Honduras and tell them to put the guns down?

This didn't help, either-

"Nearly 2,000 firearms from the program went missing, some turning up at killing scenes in Mexico – and at the site of a December 2010 gunbattle in Arizona that left U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian A. Terry dead."

What was 'Fast and Furious,' and what went wrong? | CNN

The long-awaited report on the controversial gun-trafficking operation known as Fast and Furious was issued by the Justice Department inspector general Wednesday. This question-and-answer looks at various aspects of the case and its controversies.

www.cnn.com

 

[Mikado463]

I wonder where the 18 year old Bflo shooter got the AR style rifle he used ? Responsible gun ownership is but one of the many problems with 'guns' in this country, remember the school shooting in Ct some years back !?

 

[3db]

Imagine now if the accessability to firearms circulating thru the US was greatly reduced so its far more difficult to obtain the guns by both rational and irrational minds alike. That is the end goal. The Australian government did it. I think the really evil thats plaguing the US are the gun lobbyists and the NRA as their only goal is to maintain their power base both politically and financially. They dont care for the embetterment of society. They only care about their power base. Again we see greed rule.

 

[highfigh]

I wonder where the 18 year old Bflo shooter got the AR style rifle he used ? Responsible gun ownership is but one of the many problems with 'guns' in this country, remember the school shooting in Ct some years back !?

I would like to know how and where he got the body armor that allowed him to survive and kill the guard, who had been a local PD Lieutenant until retirement from the department.

Another fine job by the parents of NOT knowing their kid. Or, if they did, they need to be arrested and charged for this.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I think other countries treat the mentally ill better than we do here, on average. MKE does have programs and people do seek treatment, but many just let it go and suffer through it.

So many guns are stolen because people are irresponsible but they aren't the only sources- gun dealers lost almost 54K weapons 2012-2019, according to the link.

Gun Theft in the United States: A State-by-State Analysis

Gun theft is rampant in states across the country, leaving all of our communities vulnerable to violent gun crime.

www.americanprogress.org

All of your examples show people being turds. THAT is the basic problem- they can't stop. Would you go to Mexico, El Salvador or Honduras and tell them to put the guns down?

This didn't help, either-

"Nearly 2,000 firearms from the program went missing, some turning up at killing scenes in Mexico – and at the site of a December 2010 gunbattle in Arizona that left U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian A. Terry dead."

What was 'Fast and Furious,' and what went wrong? | CNN

The long-awaited report on the controversial gun-trafficking operation known as Fast and Furious was issued by the Justice Department inspector general Wednesday. This question-and-answer looks at various aspects of the case and its controversies.

www.cnn.com

What you describe is just the fallout from these two factors:
1) The quantity of firearms in circulation.
2) The incredibly lax regulatory regime(s) in the US.

 

[Mikado463]

What you describe is just the fallout from these two factors:
1) The quantity of firearms in circulation.
2) The incredibly lax regulatory regime(s) in the US.

and you have forgotten one very important point .......... a judicial system that doesn't fit the crime. When I hear the cry for 'more gun laws' I cringe.

 

[Trell]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/05/15/buffalo-suspect-great-replacement-theory-conservative-media/

>>>The suspect in Saturday’s killing of 10 people at a Buffalo supermarket allegedly wrote a document endorsing “great replacement theory,” a once-fringe racist idea that became a popular refrain among media figures such as Tucker Carlson and Laura Ingraham of Fox News and conservative writer Ann Coulter. ...<<<

 

[highfigh]

What you describe is just the fallout from these two factors:
1) The quantity of firearms in circulation.
2) The incredibly lax regulatory regime(s) in the US.

You're still not blaming people for this. Are carjackings and kids fleeing from the Police in stolen cars caused by the number of cars, or kids who are turds?