Can someone please run my parameters and find the perfect box for my sub?

  • Thread starter cameron paterson
  • Start date
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
The sub in question is an TC Sounds LMS-Ultra 5400 18". Here are the parameters... What would be the perfect enclosure for my sub tuned around 20hz? I want to use a slot port not a round port. Thank you so much for the help in advance!



Product Specifications
  • Nominal Diameter18"
  • Power Handling (RMS)2,000 Watts
  • Power Handling (max)8000 Watts
  • Impedance2+2 ohms
  • Frequency Response15 to 150 Hz
  • Sensitivity89.7 dB 1W/1m
  • Voice Coil Diameter4"
  • Magnet Weight525 oz.
Thiele-Small Parameters
  • Resonant Frequency (Fs)20.5 Hz
  • DC Resistance (Re)3.78 ohms
  • Voice Coil Inductance (Le)1.96 mH
  • Mechanical Q (Qms)7.6
  • Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.34
  • Total Q (Qts)0.33
  • Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)8.5 ft.³
  • Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.12 mm/N
  • BL Product (BL)26.8 Tm
  • Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)501.3g
  • Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)33.66 mm
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
That driver is not suitable for a ported alignment. It is only suitable for a sealed box. FR is awful tuned and it does not really tune which is proved by an impedance curve that does not peak properly. When you see a driver with a huge motor structure like that with massive xmax and a power handling like that you know you are dealing with a driver for sealed use.

It does make a good sealed sub though. F3 is 58 Hz, but you have lots of power and xmax to equalize it. It would need boosting 12 db per octave stating at 60 Hz. An internal volume of 2.5 cu.ft is optimal. This gives a total system Q of 0.5. So it will be punchy.

If you really want a potent vented sub then I have a design for the Dayton 18" driver, that others on this forum have built and are thrilled with. It does not take a mega amp like the driver you have selected will.

One last point the driver determines what is the optimal loading and in a tuned enclosure the tuning frequency.

In a tuned enclosure with a suitable driver you never pull the tuning frequency out of the back of your neck. There is always an optimal tuning frequency for every driver. This is a common error with DIY and commercial subs. If you tune too low you end up with a boomy sub. You should never trade bass extension for poorer frequency response and or higher total system Q.

If you try and use this driver tuned it will sound awful and you will almost certainly destroy it, as it does require the resistance and compresisive force of the air in the box. It would not tolerate the offloading below and above tuning I don't believe. The motor system is just too powerful.
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
thank TLSGuy. in another post on this site I said that I compared this sub in my current box which is 7.3ft3 tuned @ 20hz with a tiny 16" x 3" port. and my buddy brought over his jl audio fathom 112 and my sub sounded better and was louder with every song we threw at these 2 subs! is that good or is that a given with an almost $1,000 driver? and I have a Dayton 1000 watt plate amp driving it.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
thank TLSGuy. in another post on this site I said that I compared this sub in my current box which is 7.3ft3 tuned @ 20hz with a tiny 16" x 3" port. and my buddy brought over his jl audio fathom 112 and my sub sounded better and was louder with every song we threw at these 2 subs! is that good or is that a given with an almost $1,000 driver? and I have a Dayton 1000 watt plate amp driving it.
Well what you are doing is just making a junk sub and wasting a good driver. Designing any speaker is a complex task and things have to be right. What you are doing is just wrong. If you have that sub you need to build a massively braced sealed enclosure for it of 2.5 cu.ft internal volume.

You will need a potent amp and equalize it with something like mini DSP 12 db per octave starting at 60 Hz. This will take a lot of power. That is the trouble with sealed designs they are power hungry. I would get a powerful Crown amp to drive the sub. It will be potent and accurate.
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
so I'm guessing you're saying a jl audio fathom f112 is junk too since mine sounded better and was louder with every song we threw at them?
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
2.5ft3 sealed would be small I heard 4.0ft3 for these.
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
sticking with ported its a bad ported box but still blew a jl fathom away so I am happy!
 
Last edited:
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
so I'm guessing you're saying a jl audio fathom f112 is junk too since mine sounded better and was louder with every song we threw at them?
What I'm saying is not that the drivers are junk, but your design and enclosures are junk. You can not just bung speakers in any old enclosure. You need to harness physics on your side. You do not have subs but noise makers. How loud it plays is totally subservient to qualty.

You obviously seem eager to continue as a paid up member of "Red Neck Audio."
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
but honestly it sounded better than the jl fathom so something is ok here!
 
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Winkleswizard

Audioholic
You can take most any great driver and get it to sound good with just mounting it on a baffle. For a 3 inch diameter port, tuning your box to 20 Hz means it needs to be about 5 inches long. Right now, your box is tuned to about 13 Hz. In this case, your f3 is around 43 Hz. These results are BassBox Pro simulation.

BassBox Pro set for extended bass requires a 7.4 cu ft box tuned to 20 Hz. This would yield a f3 of 37 Hz. This would be a difficult box to do well as it needs really thick walls and significant bracing.

As stated earlier, a more optimal box for this subwoofer is a 2.5 sealed one. While needing eq to get to subwoofer territory, the box would be much easier to get right...

Ww
 
tyhjaarpa

tyhjaarpa

Audioholic Field Marshall
but honestly it sounded better than the jl fathom so something is ok here!
Were the subs in same room? Were they in exact same spot? Were they calibrated to have same output level? Were you listening in same spot? If any of these factors change you will get different results. Playing same sub on different room will get different results so comparison like that is weighted like grain of salt.
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
I meant my port is a slot port not a round hole that is 3" around. The port is 16" wide x 3" high x 39" long making a tune of 20hz at 7.3ft3. And yes we turned our subs all the way up to clipping and then down a couple notches and the subs were sitting right next too eachother. My sub was far superior to the JL with every song and bass cds and test tones from 15hz to 30hz. Even "bass I love you" sounded better on my sub.
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
So is my port way too small? With the song "bass I love you" there is a ton of port air speed! Would it sound better or louder with a bigger port? My box is made with 1" MDF and is very well braced! The box is 7.3ft3 after all displacements. My port is a slot port that is 16" wide x 3" high and 39" long. It is tuned at 20hz.
 
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Winkleswizard

Audioholic
If am correctly understanding your stated box size, that vent is tuned to 20 Hz. My earlier calculations were for a cylindrical vent. However, despite the cabinet size, you are not getting the best performance from that woofer. The design has an ugly group delay and other issues.

Without knowing how your subwoofer crossover is designed, can only speculate on what other issues you might hear. In any case, you would be better served with a smaller box. A much better vented box would be about 4 cubic ft.

Ww
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
So is my port way too small? With the song "bass I love you" there is a ton of port air speed! Would it sound better or louder with a bigger port? My box is made with 1" MDF and is very well braced! The box is 7.3ft3 after all displacements. My port is a slot port that is 16" wide x 3" high and 39" long. It is tuned at 20hz.
As I told you. The designers of that driver did not intend it to be ported. If you really want a ported sub you need to select a different driver.

That driver was clearly designed to ALWAYS be placed in a sealed box. It is an excellent closed box driver and is able to handle the Eq required.

So you need a 2.5 cu.box heavily stuffed and braced and you need Eq to flatten the response. Then you will have an awesome sub, one of the best around.

Trying to port it will not work. Then you will have a poorly sounding sub, when you could have a really good one.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
so I'm guessing you're saying a jl audio fathom f112 is junk too since mine sounded better and was louder with every song we threw at them?
Any sub an be made to sound bad by putting it in the wrong cabinet.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Trying to port it will not work. Then you will have a poorly sounding sub, when you could have a really good one.
When I did car audio, one of the sales guys had a customer whose system had been stolen from his Pontiac GTA (the upper level Trans Am), which had a big glass hatchback window and a storage well below it. Sold the guy a pair of Infinity Kappa subs and a bunch of other stuff and as soon as we (installation department) saw the woofers, we knew it was going to be a big challenge because they like a larger box but that car just doesn't have room for one, so I looked at doing a bandpass box. TermPro showed that it would work, so I came up with a box shape, started on the rest of the installation and did the sub last. The door panels were some kind of formed material, so putting speakers in that would have been difficult & expensive, so it was decided that they would be omitted. That left the system with one pair of 4"x6" two-way dash speakers, a pair of 6"x9" mid-bass separates in the rear 6"x9" pillar location, a head unit, Alpine parametric EQ, the subs and a couple of amplifiers. Looks like a recipe for disaster, right?

The day I finished was the start of a car audio sound-off and when I was ready to set up the levels & EQ, I found that the RTA was already outside, so the shop manager & I did it by ear. The front 'stage' was amazing, the sound blended very nicely from front to rear- there was no apparent shift as the frequencies moved up and down the scale and the low end was strong and very smooth.

The customer had brought the car in because he wanted to enter the contest, so it was moved out to the staging area and as we judged the cars (if we worked on something, we were exempt from judging it), I could see that something didn't look right, by the car owner's actions. As it went through the line, he scored well on appearance, wiring layout & integrity, RTA/noise and sound quality. When it was done, I sat in the car to listen and with the selected music, I was very happy with the sound- I had installed it, but I can still be pretty impartial- if it doesn't sound right, I don't feel bad, I just want to fix it. I looked at the RTA results- it scored 37/40 points and I don't think I had ever seen a higher score, although I have heard of some that came in at 40/40 points.

The guy took his score sheets and trophy, went to the MTX booth to buy a bass disc and drove to a far corner of the lot, where he proceeded to blast the system so loudly that he destroyed the woofers because he hated the sound so much. The problem- his old system had a pair of Orion 10" woofers in a simple carpeted panel fastened to the storage bin and the seal was terrible, so it leaked and the sound was complete mud, but that's what he was accustomed to and it's what he had come to like. Since there was nothing to compare it to, I could only give him what I would consider a normal result- clean, tight, extended bass that blended well with the rest of the sound.
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
highfigh... lol my sub does not sound muddy at all. it is still very tight. anyone on this board from Colorado? please come listen to my setup and tell these guys how good my sub and whole setup sounds! I will pay for your gas and we can listen to whatever songs you want! this sub sounded better than the fathom 112 hands down and the owner of the JL agrees. so someone from near Longmont, CO please come listen and tell these guys how good my sub sounds! from bass cds to any genre of music!
 
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