Cables for New Setup - Practical Advice Requested

Mike V

Mike V

Junior Audioholic
I am about to set up my "music listening room." I already have a media room with 7.1 sound, so I want this mostly for me listening to music (2-channel, Klipsch Forte III speakers), and for my wife to watch a new 75" 4K TV, with a third Forte III as center channel. No subs or surround speakers for now, maybe later. I plan on a Marantz SR6011 or 6012. The TV will be on a wall, with just the three speakers. The audio rack will be out of the way on the right, not in the main field of vision while listening to 2-channel or watch TV.

I need some practical advice on cabling. A neighbor has offered to help hide all the cabling behind drywall, but first I want to set it up and listen for awhile. What do you recommend for speaker cabling, the HDMI between the TV and receiver, and all the cabling between the various components on the audio rack (which I assume will be HDMIs mostly).

I like the idea of locking banana plugs for the speakers - I am tired of bare wire hookups. Should I buy the cable and plugs separately and make them myself? I like that idea...

I am not one of those who believe in spending huge on cables, but I do not want cheap, either. Thanks in advance for your experienced advice!
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai


Hi Mike,

Any in-wall speaker or HDMI cabling should be CL-2 rated.

The only bad thing about CL-2 speaker wire is that it’s a bit stiff and it’s not terribly pretty. Thus, if your speaker wires are going to be visible, you might want to use a wall panel with binding posts, and then switch over to the regular flat zip-cord type speaker wire between the wall and the speaker.

And yes, go with the banana plugs! No need really to get the locking kind, unless you just want them – I’ve never had any problems with the plain ones.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
bluejeans or mono price , both are pretty well thought of around here and are value leaders.
 
Mike V

Mike V

Junior Audioholic

Hi Mike,

Any in-wall speaker or HDMI cabling should be CL-2 rated.

The only bad thing about CL-2 speaker wire is that it’s a bit stiff and it’s not terribly pretty. Thus, if your speaker wires are going to be visible, you might want to use a wall panel with binding posts, and then switch over to the regular flat zip-cord type speaker wire between the wall and the speaker.

And yes, go with the banana plugs! No need really to get the locking kind, unless you just want them – I’ve never had any problems with the plain ones.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
I assume the CL-2 rating is for reducing overheating / fires inside walls? I did not even think of that. Thanks! That is an important issue.
 
Mike V

Mike V

Junior Audioholic
bluejeans or mono price , both are pretty well thought of around here and are value leaders.
So those are "premade" cables, where the plugs are already attached to the cable, and you need to buy the right lengths, right? Does anybody "make their own" with cable cut to the needed size and plugs added (by me)? Are there advantages / disadvantages to each?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
So those are "premade" cables, where the plugs are already attached to the cable, and you need to buy the right lengths, right? Does anybody "make their own" with cable cut to the needed size and plugs added (by me)? Are there advantages / disadvantages to each?
I never buy premade speaker cables as I like to be able to use whatever length I need at the moment. I buy reels of speaker wire and attach my own banana plugs (use these banana plugs mostly for the dual set screws). Pre-made generally will cost more and may not be in the length needed....
 
Mike V

Mike V

Junior Audioholic
I like the idea of making my own cables, so I will do that. I am going to try to hide all wiring in my music listening / TV room, so I think I will listen to the set up for awhile, get the speaker placements optimized, then put the cables behind the wall, coming through in discrete places. I like the idea of putting a plate into the wall so I can plug each speaker into the wall connection. That has a lot of advantages.
 
Mike V

Mike V

Junior Audioholic
An alternate to in-wall are cable raceways like these
That is a good alternative. I have a white trim baseboard and a teal wall we just painted. raceways might end up being the answer, though I have a friend who says he is good at running cables behind walls. And I have leftover paint...
 
MR.MAGOO

MR.MAGOO

Audioholic Field Marshall
Personally I don't like the complications in-wall installs seem to entail. Raceways, bundle cables with velcro ties, etc. is my way, easier to take apart when re-arranging things. And with in-wall, what if a water pipe breaks, and is their electric power conduit in the wall where you want to run HDMI / speaker cables, what about electrical interference? However, I am an apartment dweller so it's no issue for me. ;)
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I am about to set up my "music listening room." I already have a media room with 7.1 sound, so I want this mostly for me listening to music (2-channel, Klipsch Forte III speakers), and for my wife to watch a new 75" 4K TV, with a third Forte III as center channel. No subs or surround speakers for now, maybe later. I plan on a Marantz SR6011 or 6012. The TV will be on a wall, with just the three speakers. The audio rack will be out of the way on the right, not in the main field of vision while listening to 2-channel or watch TV.

I need some practical advice on cabling. A neighbor has offered to help hide all the cabling behind drywall, but first I want to set it up and listen for awhile. What do you recommend for speaker cabling, the HDMI between the TV and receiver, and all the cabling between the various components on the audio rack (which I assume will be HDMIs mostly).

I like the idea of locking banana plugs for the speakers - I am tired of bare wire hookups. Should I buy the cable and plugs separately and make them myself? I like that idea...

I am not one of those who believe in spending huge on cables, but I do not want cheap, either. Thanks in advance for your experienced advice!
First and foremost, if you hide the cabling, make sure it can be replaced without tearing anything apart. HDMI fails and they continue to change the specs, so it's not a matter of if it will need to be replaced, it's a matter of when. I would hold off buying long HDMI cables until you need them and I would use one long one to feed the display, rather than letting the display switch the sources and using ARC. ARC, CEC and HDMI control suck and at training, the manufacturers tell us to turn these off if we want to have a moment's peace. Nothing ruins a weekend faster than getting calls, e-mails and texts from customers when they lose the video to a TV or projector but still have sound, all because the cable to the TV or projector stopped working, even though it hasn't been pulled too hard or damaged in any other way (like the one I recently replaced). I hate HDMI and I want it to die.

DO NOT buy a Redmere cable if you're using 4K/HDR/10bit color- it doesn't even work in all cases for 1080 resolution (that's how it was used for the one that stopped working). Get a simple HDMI cable- I have been using Vanco with good results- the one that stopped working was Key Digital and I'll NEVER use their products again, after learning that they won't cover the one that puked. Did I mention that I hate HDMI?

If you decide to hide everything (and it makes for a much cleaner look, as well as making for easier furniture selections), go through the bottom of the wall, into the lower level and to the side if the rack won't be directly under the display. It's a bit daunting, but it's not really too difficult- you just need some long and/or larger diameter drill bits. Also, you need to know that power cords can't legally be passed through walls, so it's much easier to install a power INLET and then put an outlet behind the TV.The power inlet looks like the end of a power cord that plugs into a receptacle (outlet) and these are sold by companies like Midlite- it's a lot less expensive than buying the kit- you can buy junction boxes for less than a dollar (unless you're in Chicago, where they want everything to be in metallic conduit). One inlet, one outlet, two junction boxes and a 50' roll of Romex will cost less than the kit and you should have wire left over. Also, companies like Arlington sell dual-voltage junction boxes that separate the high voltage side (power) from the low voltage side (communication cabling). If possible, use flexible conduit for the low voltage cabling- if you can't but still have access from below, you can leave a pull cord and tie it to the junction box so you can add or replace cabling, as needed.

ALWAYS give yourself a way to add or replace cabling- this is even more important in new construction or remodeling- stapling cables in place is a good way to guarantee they'll stop working- it's much better to put a staple on the framing and use wire ties to hold the cables in place, as long as the ties aren't too tight (Cat5/6/7 are sensitive to this). Also, don't pull too hard on cables and don't make them bend too tightly- Cat5e has a maximum pull strength of 25 pounds. Cabling as what's called 'minimum bend radius'- this means NOT bending it over sharp edges of lumber, steel, plastic, etc. The minimum radius is typically stated as 4 times the diameter but if you want to be safe, think in terms of a soda can if the bundle includes thick cables.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Personally I don't like the complications in-wall installs seem to entail. Raceways, bundle cables with velcro ties, etc. is my way, easier to take apart when re-arranging things. And with in-wall, what if a water pipe breaks, and is their electric power conduit in the wall where you want to run HDMI / speaker cables, what about electrical interference? However, I am an apartment dweller so it's no issue for me. ;)
HDMI and speaker cables aren't usually affected too much by electrical power wires- low level signal cables are, though. You would be surprised by the way electricians feed new wiring through and around low voltage cabling, without causing problems. If I have a chance, I ALWAYS tell electricians to avoid pulling their wires close to and parallel to mine, but they A) don't always remember, B) usually don't understand why and C) just don't care (unless they have received training on this).

In fact, HDMI cables can cause interference when an RF remote control hub is used.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I like the idea of making my own cables, so I will do that. I am going to try to hide all wiring in my music listening / TV room, so I think I will listen to the set up for awhile, get the speaker placements optimized, then put the cables behind the wall, coming through in discrete places. I like the idea of putting a plate into the wall so I can plug each speaker into the wall connection. That has a lot of advantages.
The advantages are all cosmetic- when you use wall plates with terminals, you're adding three points of connection (and potential failure) to the wire. Binding posts loosen, wires oxidize.

If it may be necessary to get the wires out of the way for cleaning or painting, I would use a wall plate with a hole, so the wire can be pushed into the wall (for cleaning) or you can remove the plate, tie a knot and leave the taped wire end exposed at the hole (for painting).
 
Mike V

Mike V

Junior Audioholic
Thanks for all the great advice. Lots to think about. So much has changed since I did my media room 10 years ago. This music listening room will compliment, not replace, my media room. Just painted my room and I have extra paint if I decide on raceways. First off, I will set the entire up and play with it for a few weeks before I decide on how I will conceal the wiring as best as I can. I ordered a maple audio rack through Timber Nation, now I need to make a few small purchases - the 75" 4K TV, the AV receiver, Blu ray / CD player... and a chair / couch for enjoying the music / video...
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I assume the CL-2 rating is for reducing overheating / fires inside walls? I did not even think of that. Thanks! That is an important issue.
It means they don't give off toxic smoke when in a fire.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
HDMI and speaker cables aren't usually affected too much by electrical power wires- low level signal cables are, though. You would be surprised by the way electricians feed new wiring through and around low voltage cabling, without causing problems. If I have a chance, I ALWAYS tell electricians to avoid pulling their wires close to and parallel to mine, but they A) don't always remember, B) usually don't understand why and C) just don't care (unless they have received training on this).

In fact, HDMI cables can cause interference when an RF remote control hub is used.
When I was into new construction building, we always scheduled the low voltage rough in after the electrical rough in so he could run his wiring and not have to worry about the 14-2 and 12-2 wire interference.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
When I was into new construction building, we always scheduled the low voltage rough in after the electrical rough in so he could run his wiring and not have to worry about the 14-2 and 12-2 wire interference.
Yeah, that could work if people would make decisions and live with them but in residential construction, that's kind of rare. It helps if they get hit with a few multi-thousand dollar change orders- they serve as a rolled up newspaper that's used to swat the people on the beak.

Low voltage should always go in just before the drywall- that way, all of the other stuff is done and the LV people don't have people sabotaging their work. Nothing like running bundles of cabling and finding out the hard way that it passes through the same place a return or supply duct will go.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
Yeah, that could work if people would make decisions and live with them but in residential construction, that's kind of rare. It helps if they get hit with a few multi-thousand dollar change orders- they serve as a rolled up newspaper that's used to swat the people on the beak.

Low voltage should always go in just before the drywall- that way, all of the other stuff is done and the LV people don't have people sabotaging their work. Nothing like running bundles of cabling and finding out the hard way that it passes through the same place a return or supply duct will go.
Yeah, we were a track builder (300s-500s) with limited custom options...we had LV pkgs...pick A, B, or C type stuff....change orders...what are those? lol

We had a few, but not enough to slow a closing...now I built a few custom houses including one for myself and I would never do it again for a friend for sure.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Yeah, we were a track builder (300s-500s) with limited custom options...we had LV pkgs...pick A, B, or C type stuff....change orders...what are those? lol

We had a few, but not enough to slow a closing...now I built a few custom houses including one for myself and I would never do it again for a friend for sure.
I studied architecture, so I know a good number of architects- they all went into commercial/industrial and would only do resi for themselves or friends/family.
 

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