Building a Budget HT Setup for Music/Gaming/Movies

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darthalal

Enthusiast
Hi all - I'm new to the forums, as well as to the home theater scene, and was looking for some advice for putting together my first system. I did some searching, but everything I found was for a larger budget than my own, and with different priorities, and since I don't know much of anything at the moment about what I'm getting into, I figured I should ask for some advice.

I originally planned on purchasing the Samsung HT-Z522, but after looking at some reviews and finding a little bit more about home theater systems, it seems like the general consensus is that htib systems are crap, and that it's much more worthwhile to build a system from components. That being said, is it possible to build a respectable system from components for around the same price (~$400)? Or will I have to start smaller (say, a receiver and 2 speakers, or 2 and a sub), and build up to surround or better components later?

This should probably go in a different section, but after shopping around for htib's all week, I've sort of gotten my heart set on the taller style speakers that come with the Samsung I linked to above, rather than the tiny speakers that seem to come with most other systems.. would I be able to get larger speakers like this, or not with my budget? Or would the smaller component speakers outperform htib speakers so much that it doesn't matter?

I almost forgot, the primary uses for this system would be (in order of importance)
- Music
- Gaming
- Movies
All primarily through a PC. Movies and music would likely later be changed to a separate dvd/cd player (once budget allows), but gaming will probably always remain on the PC. What would some affordable but respectable receiver choices be (for say.. $250)? Or would I have to up the budget to get anything worthwhile?

Thanks in advance, and if there's anything I should read that would help me with this whole process, send it my way!
 
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darthalal

Enthusiast
Any one know if these are any good?

SONY 7.1-Channel Home Theater A/V Receiver STR-DH700
ONKYO 5.1-Channel Home Theater Receiver TX-SR307
YAMAHA 5.1-Channel Digital Home Theater Receiver RX-V365
SONY 7.1-Channel Home Theater A/V Receiver STR-DH800

I apologize, I can't post them as links since I don't have enough posts, but they're Sony, Onkyo and Yamaha Receivers on Newegg all for under $250. Are there any brands that I should avoid? The Sony's are discounted quite a bit, so I'm thinking those would be a good deal, but like I said, I don't know much about this equipment.

Thanks!
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
I would, and in fact did, go for good 2-channel before increasing to surround. But it's up to you.

$400 is a range where it's tough to get a good (current meaning HDMI 1.3) AVR. I suspect your best bet there is used.

The least expensive rig I've seen really recommended is a pair of Behrenger 2030P speakers ($150), and 1 (or by strong preference 2, but you could start with 1 and add another later) Dayton 10" (or 12") subs. You can tighten the bass on them by shoving a $3 pillow in the enclosure (WmAx can suggest which pillow will work).

The tricky part would be finding an amp in your price range (since you are only working with $100-$150 assuming you got only one sub). Your best bet might be a 5.2 AVR that will take component cables and forgo HDMI for a little bit. Audiogon, Ebay, etc.

To be specific on what I did: I picked up a pair of 20-year-old PSB 400i bookshelves off eBay for $60, took a Sony 5.1 receiver I already owned from my main system (computer plugs into monitor, so didn't need video switching, just amplification), and a B&W sub I got off craigslist for $125. The sound is surprisingly good.

Remember that you can phantom your center channel in a small room. In my bedroom HT, I've actually shut off the center because the sound is better to my ear (the speakers are too close together to use all three without interference).
 
fightinkraut

fightinkraut

Full Audioholic
Any one know if these are any good?

SONY 7.1-Channel Home Theater A/V Receiver STR-DH700
ONKYO 5.1-Channel Home Theater Receiver TX-SR307
YAMAHA 5.1-Channel Digital Home Theater Receiver RX-V365
SONY 7.1-Channel Home Theater A/V Receiver STR-DH800

I apologize, I can't post them as links since I don't have enough posts, but they're Sony, Onkyo and Yamaha Receivers on Newegg all for under $250. Are there any brands that I should avoid? The Sony's are discounted quite a bit, so I'm thinking those would be a good deal, but like I said, I don't know much about this equipment.

Thanks!
First off, welcome to the forums!

The advice from JerryLove is very good, and the recommendation for the 2030P speakers certainly has been highly recommended.

If you're set on surround sound then I'll throw a few options your way:

First off, ditch the Sony's. They simply don't produce good low end receivers. The Onkyo and Yammy are ok, but if you're looking under $250 you would be better off with this.

If you can swing to $300 then a few really good budget options pop up, like this. Many people have purchased refurbs from AC4L with no problems.

That being said, if your budget is $400, you'll have a bit of a difficult time finding speakers for $150. I would suggest either this energy set or this EMP set. I don't know of any better budget deals for the money. Sometimes Newegg discounts the energy set down to $150 shipped.

You will absolutely get better sound by starting with a 2.0 or 2.1 set and building slowly, that is what I did for a few years.

Enjoy the hunt for deals!
 
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rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
The Denon 1610/590 would be my pick. Electronics Expo has the 1610 for under $300 shipped if you use the "RECEIVERSALE" coupon.
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
The Denon 1610/590 would be my pick. Electronics Expo has the 1610 for under $300 shipped if you use the "RECEIVERSALE" coupon.
Honestly, I would sooner skimp on receiver than speakers. AVRs need updates every so-many years regardless... and so many features are unused (who needs 7.1 when you only have 2 speakers? Why bother with DTS-Master if it's going over cheap speakers?) .

To put perspective on another rig at my house: my family room is running a circa 1989 Pioneer AVR because it's a good audio switch with a good amp (and I am debating just adding an HDMI switch rather than a new AVR to accommodate the projector being added). Sure it only runs two channel, and doesn't decode anything: but I've only got two speakers in there, and the CD-player decodes fine.

That said: there's an Onkyo HDMI receiver (don't know which) at my local pawn shop. I'm sure there are equal or better deals at his, on craigslist (often awesome deals), or ebay.

Unless you have a compelling need for surround: get the best speakers you can manage, and enough receiver to get the job done. If you are planning to upgrade later: preference 5.2 AVRs. It doesn't sound like 7-channel will be an issue for some time.

If 5.2 is hard to find, 5.1 with a pre-out / in (the one with the little "U" shaped posts shorting the connectors) would allow you to use a cheap external crossover (I think there's a recommended one that's about $80) later to put in stereo subs. What you would do when you got there is add the cross-over for the front two out/ins, split the LF to the left and right subs respectively, tell your receiver you had no sub and that the fronts were large.

It would be simpler to get a AVR with stereo sub outs (and try to do so), but when we are looking for the best deal, that might limit options.
 
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darthalal

Enthusiast
$400 is a range where it's tough to get a good (current meaning HDMI 1.3) AVR. I suspect your best bet there is used.
Is HDMI 1.3 really that important? I have no problem with going used - that's how I get most of my guitar equipment - what would be something to keep an eye out for?

The least expensive rig I've seen really recommended is a pair of Behrenger 2030P speakers ($150)
I've seen a lot of good reviews for these - would they hold up for a while, or would I want something bigger/better very quickly? Would I be able to move these to the surrounds, and get bigger/better front speakers, or would they not hold their own?

Remember that you can phantom your center channel in a small room. In my bedroom HT, I've actually shut off the center because the sound is better to my ear (the speakers are too close together to use all three without interference).
What do you mean by "phantom"-ing the center channel?

For the next 5 months or so, the system will be installed in a bedroom (last semester at college, and after that they'll most likely be in my apartment, but I'm unsure of where I'll be living after graduation as of yet, so we'll see). Because of this, I'm guessing that 2 subs would be overkill!

First off, ditch the Sony's. They simply don't produce good low end receivers. The Onkyo and Yammy are ok, but if you're looking under $250 you would be better off with this.

If you can swing to $300 then a few really good budget options pop up, like this. Many people have purchased refurbs from AC4L with no problems.
Are there brands I should lean towards/away from other than Sony? Both of those look good, but is the 606 really that much better than the 507? The reason I ask, and the reason I wanted to keep the AVR below $250 is because that's my parents' Christmas budget for me, so I was going to have them purchase the receiver, and fund the rest of the parts myself. If the 606, or something else just a bit more than $250 is really that much more worth the money, I could buy the receiver myself, and have them buy speakers or a sub.

If you're set on surround sound then I'll throw a few options your way:
It sounds like I'd be much happier starting from 2/2.1 and building up from there, so I'll probably do that (especially since it will only be in a bedroom/dorm/office type area for now)

Honestly, I would sooner skimp on receiver than speakers. AVRs need updates every so-many years regardless... and so many features are unused (who needs 7.1 when you only have 2 speakers? Why bother with DTS-Master if it's going over cheap speakers?).
Would you still recommend this if I could afford something like the two receivers that fightinkraut posted, a sub, and the 2030P's? As far as sub's go, do I need to purchase another amp, or would I be fine with a powered subwoofer like the YAMAHA YST-SW216BL Front Firing 100W Powered Subwoofer Single or Polk Audio PSW10 Black 10-inch Powered Subwoofer Single? (Again, sorry I can't post links yet.. they're both $99 at newegg).

I've also noticed that there are many used receivers on Amazon under $250 - how do I know what to stay away from there, or what would be a good deal?

Like I said before, the main source of audio (actually the only, unless I get a separate CD/DVD/BluRay player soon) will be my PC, would this complicate anything, or change any of your advice? My HDTV is also my primary PC monitor, if that makes a difference.

Thanks so far!!
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
Is HDMI 1.3 really that important? I have no problem with going used - that's how I get most of my guitar equipment - what would be something to keep an eye out for?
Much of my current gear is used. How important HDMI 1.3a is is up to you. All but one of my video rigs (three at my house two at my parents) run component rather than HDMI (because there was no compelling need for me to upgrade the AVRs).

I'd keep an eye out for pre-outs: especially if you don't get stereo sub-outs.

I've seen a lot of good reviews for these - would they hold up for a while, or would I want something bigger/better very quickly? Would I be able to move these to the surrounds, and get bigger/better front speakers, or would they not hold their own?
Match them with a good stereo pair of subs and you have a rig that will last until your budget is far bigger than we are discussing now. There are some modifications that can be done to improve the sound further, and if you eventually want even more, they make good surrounds.

What do you mean by "phantom"-ing the center channel?
Most AVRs, if told there is no center channel, will split the center-channel signal between the left and right speakers. In a large setup (say: a proper home theater where your L/R speakers may be 15' apart), this is generally inferior (debateable I suppose); but in smaller setups, like my bedroom where my L/R speakers are 10' apart, it can often be the better solution. (My center speaker is about $1000 by itself (was when new) and I've recently stopped using it because I like the sound better with it off)

Certainly, in a smaller setup, I'd prefer two good speakers to three lesser ones.

For the next 5 months or so, the system will be installed in a bedroom (last semester at college, and after that they'll most likely be in my apartment, but I'm unsure of where I'll be living after graduation as of yet, so we'll see). Because of this, I'm guessing that 2 subs would be overkill!
It's not about volume, though certainly more subs have an easier time than fewer: it's about fidelity. When using subs in stereo: don't think of them as HT subs. Think of them as the woofers on your L/R speakers.

Are there brands I should lean towards/away from other than Sony? Both of those look good, but is the 606 really that much better than the 507? The reason I ask, and the reason I wanted to keep the AVR below $250 is because that's my parents' Christmas budget for me, so I was going to have them purchase the receiver, and fund the rest of the parts myself. If the 606, or something else just a bit more than $250 is really that much more worth the money, I could buy the receiver myself, and have them buy speakers or a sub.
The one I referenced was chosen because it has stereo sub outs. I think the 507 does not but you can check.

You'll be fine with any of the major brands: Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, etc. The rig I've suggested is not very power hungry (and it sounds like you will be at low listening levels).

If you want to defer costs, you can get a much less expensive used 5.1 receiver by ignoring HDMI and only wanting 1 sub out (<$100): then get one sub and a pair of 2030p. If you have the space and desire: get another pair of 2030p for surrounds.

When you are ready to move up: replace the receiver (or if the receiver has pre-amp outs and ins, use an external crossover to: or if just pre-amp outs, an external crossover and external amp), add a second sub and, if you prefer, a center channel (and surrounds if you did not get them earlier.

Also, by then you'll have had good time to get a feel for the 2030p. If you got 2 and have the funds/desire to go with something else: move them to the back and buy new fronts.

It sounds like I'd be much happier starting from 2/2.1 and building up from there, so I'll probably do that (especially since it will only be in a bedroom/dorm/office type area for now)
I think it's the better choice for sound quality. If you want, you can get a used pair of "throw aways" off craigslist or the like for surrounds. The demands on surround speakers are not very high, and it's a good way to get surround without compromising the sound of your primary speakers due to budget.

Would you still recommend this if I could afford something like the two receivers that fightinkraut posted, a sub, and the 2030P's? As far as sub's go, do I need to purchase another amp, or would I be fine with a powered subwoofer like the YAMAHA YST-SW216BL Front Firing 100W Powered Subwoofer Single or Polk Audio PSW10 Black 10-inch Powered Subwoofer Single? (Again, sorry I can't post links yet.. they're both $99 at newegg).
I'm sure the receivers are fine, but do look at my comment on stereo subs above.

I'm not generally up on subs in that price range to commend on the ones you asked for: the Dayton 10" and 12" come highly recommended by others in the price point.

I've also noticed that there are many used receivers on Amazon under $250 - how do I know what to stay away from there, or what would be a good deal?
Brand, features, and power. I mentioned some good brands. There are others. If you have a question on a specific one ask. I may not know, but someone likely will.

Like I said before, the main source of audio (actually the only, unless I get a separate CD/DVD/BluRay player soon) will be my PC, would this complicate anything, or change any of your advice? My HDTV is also my primary PC monitor, if that makes a difference.
You may want to consider looking for 5 (or more) channel direct inputs on the receiver. Older receivers may lack some sound decodes that you might like, and (depending on your sound card and BR player) the PC or BR may be able to do those decodes for you and put them out across patch cables.

so 5.1 or 7.1 coaxial inputs are definately an advantage when looking at older gear.
 
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darthalal

Enthusiast
Wow! Thanks so much for replying to all my 'noob' questions..
I'd keep an eye out for pre-outs: especially if you don't get stereo sub-outs.
I've been looking at the Onkyo Tx-sr507 (it doesn't have 2 sub channels, but it looks like it has pre-outs?) for $230. I'd really like to get the Onkyo HT-RC160 (it has 7.2 channels, so it wouldn't be a problem moving to a 2 sub setup later), but it's $300 (refurbished). If I can get the speakers and sub all paid for by my parents, I should be able to spend the $300, if what it adds over the 507 is worth it (stereo subs!), in the interest of not having to upgrade the AVR for a while.

Match them with a good stereo pair of subs and you have a rig that will last until your budget is far bigger than we are discussing now. There are some modifications that can be done to improve the sound further, and if you eventually want even more, they make good surrounds.
I found them, I'll definitely keep those in mind.

It's not about volume, though certainly more subs have an easier time than fewer: it's about fidelity. When using subs in stereo: don't think of them as HT subs. Think of them as the woofers on your L/R speakers.
That makes a lot more sense than what I was imagining, thanks. After researching the Dayton's you recommended, either the SUB-100 or SUB-120 will probably be what I go with (but just one to start!).

You may want to consider looking for 5 (or more) channel direct inputs on the receiver. Older receivers may lack some sound decodes that you might like, and (depending on your sound card and BR player) the PC or BR may be able to do those decodes for you and put them out across patch cables.

so 5.1 or 7.1 coaxial inputs are definately an advantage when looking at older gear.
It doesn't look like the Onkyo HT-RC160 has this, but I'm not sure where it would be/would be listed?

Do you have any experience with The Speaker Company speakers? They have a 40% off sale right now, and for about the price of a pair of the 2030P's, I could have 5 bookshelf speakers from them (LCR1 or LCR3 for the center/surrounds, and a TSB pair for the fronts). If they're respectable speakers, or on par with the Behringers, I might order a set of those.. Thanks again! You've been extremely helpful
 
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JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
It doesn't look like the Onkyo HT-RC160 has this, but I'm not sure where it would be/would be listed?
Looking at the back it does not. Before pulling the trigger on that one (since it being dual sub is a reason), it would be good to verify that the subs are stereo and not just two identical channels.

I believe a used external low-pass filter is about $80, so a receiver with pre-out, pre-in would allow you to add an external filter and go stereo subs later.

Do you have any experience with The Speaker Company speakers?
I'm sorry but I do not have experience with them.

Realize as well I recommend the Behringers based on their ability to accurately reproduce sound over a wide angle of listening. That makes them "flat", which may or may not be what your ears most like. A strong advantage of flat speakers is that you can make them sound different "bright", "warm", etc through the use of an EQ. A speaker which has "a sound" naturally is very hard to flatten or make sound different.

I'm confident that the Behringer is the better speaker: but that does not mean that it is the speaker you will more enjoy... at least right out of the box.
 
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darthalal

Enthusiast
Looking at the back it does not. Before pulling the trigger on that one (since it being dual sub is a reason), it would be good to verify that the subs are stereo and not just two identical channels.
Good call.. From everything I can find, they appear to be the same channel (it always says "dual subwoofer outputs" or "two subwoofer outputs" or "allows use of 2 subwoofers," never mentioning stereo). Finding a receiver is getting frustrating, haha. I'm probably going to drop the receiver budget quite a bit (like your original suggestion..) until I know exactly what I need from one later on.

A strong advantage of flat speakers is that you can make them sound different "bright", "warm", etc through the use of an EQ. A speaker which has "a sound" naturally is very hard to flatten or make sound different.
Would I have to buy a separate EQ? I know I could use my PC for the audio coming out of there, but what about EQ'ing HDMI or component sources?
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Ninja
Good call.. From everything I can find, they appear to be the same channel (it always says "dual subwoofer outputs" or "two subwoofer outputs" or "allows use of 2 subwoofers," never mentioning stereo). Finding a receiver is getting frustrating, haha. I'm probably going to drop the receiver budget quite a bit (like your original suggestion..) until I know exactly what I need from one later on.

Would I have to buy a separate EQ? I know I could use my PC for the audio coming out of there, but what about EQ'ing HDMI or component sources?
You can do some EQ on the receiver itself (how much depends on which you end up with), but one great advantage of a PC as a source is that a great deal of EQ can indeed be done in the PC.

I'm surprised I didn't think to point that out before. Good catch.
 
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darthalal

Enthusiast
Have you heard of Da Vinci Audio speakers? My roommate just offered to sell me a 5.1 system (just 5 bookshelf speakers and a sub) that he has had sitting at his house, for $50. He says he bought them used for way, way more a while back, but didn't know that he needed a receiver or amp to use them, so they just sat. Can't really pass up $50 for everything, right? I have no idea if the sub is powered or if I'd need an external amp, but he doesn't know anything about this stuff, so he doesn't have a clue either. The problem is, I wouldn't be able to check them out until after Christmas, so by then it's too late to ask for speakers as a gift if the one's he's offering are no good. I can't seem to find anything on the internet though..

EDIT: I found a "Divinci" company, and quite a bit about them.. and how awful they are. I'm guessing this is what he's offering, so I'm assuming I should avoid it at all costs.. even for $50?
 
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fightinkraut

fightinkraut

Full Audioholic
Have you heard of Da Vinci Audio speakers? My roommate just offered to sell me a 5.1 system (just 5 bookshelf speakers and a sub) that he has had sitting at his house, for $50. He says he bought them used for way, way more a while back, but didn't know that he needed a receiver or amp to use them, so they just sat. Can't really pass up $50 for everything, right? I have no idea if the sub is powered or if I'd need an external amp, but he doesn't know anything about this stuff, so he doesn't have a clue either. The problem is, I wouldn't be able to check them out until after Christmas, so by then it's too late to ask for speakers as a gift if the one's he's offering are no good. I can't seem to find anything on the internet though..

EDIT: I found a "Divinci" company, and quite a bit about them.. and how awful they are. I'm guessing this is what he's offering, so I'm assuming I should avoid it at all costs.. even for $50?
Quite correct good sir, avoid said company, even for $50. You'd be better off searching for some used bookshelves at a thrift store or ebay for that price. :)
 
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darthalal

Enthusiast
Quite correct good sir, avoid said company, even for $50. You'd be better off searching for some used bookshelves at a thrift store or ebay for that price. :)
Phew! Dodged a bullet there..

I sent my parents links today, I'm pretty sure speaker-wise I've decided on a pair of 2030P's for the fronts, and the LCR1 P Series for the center and surrounds - They're cheap enough, if I don't like them, I'll just send them back, or sell them.

Now I just need to pick out a receiver and buy a sub!!
 
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