Budget Amp - Lively, dyanmic

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markw

Audioholic Overlord
I didn't actually read the whole thread but I have noticed that you have been quite a prick lately:eek:
Does that turn you on?

Sorry, but letting BS (and there's been a lot of that lately) grow without trying to correct it is the same as spreading it. And, by that post I corrected of yours here, perhaps you SHOULD read before posting. Then I wouldn't need to correct you. ;)

Besides, I simply stated a generally known and accepted fact with no reference to any particular piece of gear. Do you disagree with what I said, or were YOU just being a prick?
 
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ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
The thread listed here is what I was thinking. You "jump" on people before you even give them a chance. I may be way off but you remind me of one of those guys who are all agressive when you are behind a computer or in a car but you wouldn't dare look another guy in the eyes in real life.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54713

Prick was my word...come up with your own....
Does that turn you on?

Sorry, but letting BS (and there's been a lot of that lately) grow without trying to correct it is the same as spreading it. And, by that post I corrected of yours here, perhaps you SHOULD read before posting. Then I wouldn't need to correct you. ;)

Besides, I simply stated a generally known and accepted fact with no reference to any particular piece of gear. Do you disagree with what I said, or were YOU just being a prick?
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
You can have the word "prick". It suits you.

The thread listed here is what I was thinking. You "jump" on people before you even give them a chance. I may be way off but you remind me of one of those guys who are all agressive when you are behind a computer or in a car but you wouldn't dare look another guy in the eyes in real life.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54713

Prick was my word...come up with your own....
And, as for that thread, no apologies. What's been his participation since that thread?

If the only reason someone comes here is to air their dirty laundry then they can be prepared to be met with skepticism. I believe I explained myelf quite well there but obviously you didn't get it then, or even now. OP seems to have, though.

And, you're the one that seems to be getting testy here. Time for you to step back and take a chill pill before you come off looking like a wannabe macho ahole. Perhaps some brushups on audio basics and comprehensive reading might be in order as well. On a technical level, your posts have about as much substance as cotton candy.

And, yeah, I'd say this to your face. I don't suffer fools gladly anymore.

Perhaps this would be better discussed over some Shiner Bocks. I just got back from Austin/College Station. We go there about twice a year.

Aren't you glad you asked?
 
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ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
I was feeling a little testy this morning but I have done some baking and cleaned the floors and now I am uncertain if I even have any stones.

Cotton Candy? Good thing I can afford to pay people to figure this stuff out for me.:D

Would love to meet you for a beer but I have a feeling you wouldn't even look me in the eyes.:eek:
And, as for that thread, no apologies. What's been his participation since that thread?

If the only reason someone comes here is to air their dirty laundry then they can be prepared to be met with skepticism. I believe I explained myelf quite well there but obviously you didn't get it then, or even now. OP seems to have, though.

And, you're the one that seems to be getting testy here. Time for you to step back and take a chill pill before you come off looking like a wannabe macho ahole. Perhaps some brushups on audio basics and comprehensive reading might be in order as well. On a technical level, your posts have about as much substance as cotton candy.

And, yeah, I'd say this to your face. I don't suffer fools gladly anymore.

Perhaps this would be better discussed over some Shiner Bocks. I just got back from Austin/College Station. We go there about twice a year.

Aren't you glad you asked?
 
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Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Will you guys get a room already? You could cut the sexual tension with a knife. :p :D
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
lol...it's not like me to stir up crap, I am not sure what is going on....
Will you guys get a room already? You could cut the sexual tension with a knife. :p :D
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Ok, so why are terms like that used to describe power amps all the time in reviews??

IE - http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/amplifiers/onix-a-120mkii-integrated-amplifier/onix-a-120mkii-remote-and-listening-evaluation

go to listening results, 2nd paragraph.
What amps do and should do are two different things. When designers get into it they have certain thresh-holds they are going to achieve. Their design approach is going to to make some sort of subtle change.

That is why an AMP from NAD may sound 'different' then an amp from Hafler, B&K, Parasound, or Rotel. The difference may not be much, but there may indeed be a sonic signature.

Many a long, drawn out, and heated thread has taken place over just this.

I think the general belief that you will see here is that most of your electronics are supposed to be transparent. They are simply there to get the source to the speakers.

Welcome to AH!
 
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S

scooterp7

Audioholic Intern
I want to purchase a rack stand for my ep2500's. They are sold as variable spaces (5 space, 14 space, etc.) Does the ep2500 require 2 spaces per amp? TIA.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
I want to purchase a rack stand for my ep2500's. They are sold as variable spaces (5 space, 14 space, etc.) Does the ep2500 require 2 spaces per amp? TIA.
I think that depends on the rack. But I thought they where only one space?
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I want to purchase a rack stand for my ep2500's. They are sold as variable spaces (5 space, 14 space, etc.) Does the ep2500 require 2 spaces per amp? TIA.
The EP2500 appears to be 2 RU's (rack units). A rack unit is measured by 1.75 inches.

The real issue that you have to pay attention to how ever is that the 2500 is a 4 post amp. that means there is an additional set of rack ears on the rear of the unit. The amp is heavy enough that you will need a 4 post rack. You cannot get away with a 2 post (even if using a shelf). The back simply needs support.

Are you sure you need a beast such as that to drive your mains? I think something like the Behringer A500 would be more than adequate at ~230 watts/channel into 8ohms. It weighs around 20lbs, is passively cooled and only requires a two post rack. Plus you can get it from ZZSounds.com for $199 shipped.
 
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jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Does that turn you on?

Sorry, but letting BS (and there's been a lot of that lately)
Hi Mark,

How's it going :eek:? I think the level of response is a bit too 'amplified' (ha, I made a funny). I don't think the OP was being disingenuous. Actually the part about how amps sound (lively, bright, etc) as part of the editorial is a valid one.

The 2200PE is rated at 100 WPC at 8 Ohms, so it will deliver a bit more than that at 6 Ohms. I am not sure where the poster is getting the 188 watt total envelope at. Maybe he would care to explain where that number was derived from.
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
And, yeah, I'd say this to your face. I don't suffer fools gladly anymore.

Perhaps this would be better discussed over some Shiner Bocks.
I was feeling a little testy this morning but I have done some baking and cleaned the floors and now I am uncertain if I even have any stones.

I thought this stuff only happened in the political threads?;)
What's going on? Everybody's on edge.

At the next AH get together, we should all go for Asian massages.:D
Group discount, soy sauce optional.

P.S. I've had Shiner Bock, it's pretty good.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
I thought this stuff only happened in the political threads?;)
What's going on? Everybody's on edge.

At the next AH get together, we should all go for Asian massages.:D
Group discount, soy sauce optional.
Be sure to request the 'happy ending':D:eek:
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Be sure to request the 'happy ending':D:eek:
You beat me to it. I was trying to figure out how to combine that with "don't look him in the eye." I couldn't come up with anything non-probation-worthy. :) In my defense, I was eating another slice of pizza... :D
 
S

soulrider4ever

Enthusiast
Hi Mark,

How's it going :eek:? I think the level of response is a bit too 'amplified' (ha, I made a funny). I don't think the OP was being disingenuous. Actually the part about how amps sound (lively, bright, etc) as part of the editorial is a valid one.

The 2200PE is rated at 100 WPC at 8 Ohms, so it will deliver a bit more than that at 6 Ohms. I am not sure where the poster is getting the 188 watt total envelope at. Maybe he would care to explain where that number was derived from.
It was rebuilt at a local audio shop and they measured it. I think they put in a few higher quality parts. I think I'm going to audition it. I'm surprised to see responses to go Pro amp's for average home owner speakers...

I can't believe this thread turned into flame wars; lighten up guys lol. I believe some of you may have misread or misinterpreted some questions - they truely were from a 'I'm here to learn persepctive'. Just trying to make sense of these reviews - and was told that my speakers (from reviews) work better with more dynamic amps (vs. laid back).
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Get the Yamaha you can do a price match for any zzounds item and usually get a great deal. If you are up for a fan mod you can also use an ep2500.

But I will toss out the Behringer A500. It might fit the billing for your needs and costs less than the ep2500 and has a quieter fan. Paired with a DCX2496 you can make any sound signature you want.
A500 doesn't have a fan. It is a lot of amp for the money, though.
 
H

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
It was rebuilt at a local audio shop and they measured it. I think they put in a few higher quality parts. I think I'm going to audition it. I'm surprised to see responses to go Pro amp's for average home owner speakers...

I can't believe this thread turned into flame wars; lighten up guys lol. I believe some of you may have misread or misinterpreted some questions - they truely were from a 'I'm here to learn persepctive'. Just trying to make sense of these reviews - and was told that my speakers (from reviews) work better with more dynamic amps (vs. laid back).
A spec called "Dynamic Headroom" was used in the late '70s and early '80s, but I haven't seen it lately. It required a clean input signal at the highest clean constant output level from the amp (or rated output, but this opens the possibility that the company would underrate the amp to show better specs). They then introduce a transient signal and, using an oscilloscope, they find the highest clean peak level. Some amps have no dynamic headroom and they would have a 0dB, .1dB or something in that range. Others were able to produce peaks of more than 3dB from the highest clean constant output level.

Best bet for clean dynamics- buy more power than you would ever use and in theory, clipping will never be an issue. T.I.M. can still occur but if the usable levels never approach the maximum from the amp, even this shouldn't be a problem.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
Soulrider, I have experience w/ classic NAD stuff (2100, very similar but far less muscular than the 2200), newer NAD (C272) and Emotiva stuff (a now discontinued model, borrowed briefly when the 2100 was having surgery), and some tube stuff (Decware Zens).

I think the old 2200 would probably give you what you're looking for, but for near the same price you could probably find a new NAD C272. They're phased out, so deals are happening. I've seen them going in the $300 range.

There is a slight but discernable difference between the old NAD and newer stuff. The older gear was a bit less refined sounding than the new, but they both offer conservative ratings and would likely give all the power you need. The newer NAD sounded similar to the emotiva I tried, and it was a very similar amp in circuit design (both class G type, where the output rail voltage varied w/ input signal, as opposed to the older NAD 'PE', which was a two rail, switching class H design, I think). All of the amps I've had are satisfying to listen to, with the newer gear just a bit more refined (i.e. less of the 'classic' NAD, somewhat fat and wooly sound). The newer NAD vs emotiva was so close that the difference is personal taste as to which company you want to support w/ your dollars, cosmetics, etc.

I don't think your speakers are efficient enough for such an approach, but you should really listen to a SET tube amp before you buy anything. The Decware amps I recently acquired are extraordinarily lively and provide a whole other level of dynamics and clarity compared to any of my old gear, despite their minimalistic power.
 
S

soulrider4ever

Enthusiast
Just wanted to let everyone know - I purchased 2 amps and one of them will be going back.

I ordered an Emotiva UPA-2 (be here on Wed. 4/22/09) and I picked up from a local seller an Acurus A250.

I will be doing a direct comparison A/B testing between the 2 - will let you know which one stays in the home.

Joe
 
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