Broken Remote Control Help

[TLS Guy]

Thanks TLS Guy - I do remember seeing some remotes with a frequency sticker on the back. Unfortunately the back is blank on my remote.

I have a feeling that screen is dumb as a rock and ineducable. I think you basically have two options now. One is to junk the thing, the other is to take it apart and study the wiring. I would suspect it would not be too difficult to contrive a wall switch. The motor wiring has to be very simple and not rocket science.

I bet you will find there are three wires going to the motor, one will be ground, one when energized will make the screen go up and the other down. So if you wire a two way momentary switch, so that when you hold the switch up the screen goes up and hold it down the screen goes down, and the mid position is off.

 

[Bunzmon]

I have a feeling that screen is dumb as a rock and ineducable. I think you basically have two options now. One is to junk the thing, the other is to take it apart and study the wiring. I would suspect it would not be too difficult to contrive a wall switch. The motor wiring has to be very simple and not rocket science.

I bet you will find there are three wires going to the motor, one will be ground, one when energized will make the screen go up and the other down. So if you wire a two way momentary switch, so that when you hold the switch up the screen goes up and hold it down the screen goes down, and the mid position is off.

Thanks TLS Guy - You are probably right about it being simple. If my replacement remote and transmitter will not work I my try to take off the side and see if I can figure it out. BMXTRIX had an idea that worked to get my screen up. Now just working on trying to make it a bit easier with a the replacement remote and transmitter.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Thanks BMXTRIX - With your recommendation I was able to get the screen up by inserting an old RJ11 connection and touching wires together. I figured out that Yellow and Black together is up, Yellow and Green is down and Yellow and Red are stop. This helps a lot especially if I can not get the or a remote to work. I am not giving up just yet on a remote. I think this idea on these pictures of a remote I bought might help. The instructions that were included were not helpful but I think I should put the green wire in the "Down" port, black wire in the "Up" port, and red wire in the "Stop" port and then try the yellow wire in the "On" port? I am not sure what to put in the "Off" port just yet. Then I would secure the transmitter near the screen and use this remote to work off the transmitter. What do you think?

Or do I need something like the last photo to give me power for the transmitter?

So, the remote that you show in the first couple of photos is similar to the last photo you are showing. L and N are load and neutral from the power outlet on the wall. It wants you to wire in a 120v plug to run the thing. No ground. Then you use Yellow on the common connection, Black to up, and Green to down.

You will want to see if pressing up/down again creates a 'stop' event. It is unusual for low voltage controls to have a dedicated stop event connection. This is because stop is typically either pressing the same direction a second time, or by shorting common (Yellow) to both up and down (Black/Green) at the same time. If that doesn't work for this screen, then there will only be up and down, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

As far as I can tell, both of those products are basically the same thing.

 

[Bunzmon]

So, the remote that you show in the first couple of photos is similar to the last photo you are showing. L and N are load and neutral from the power outlet on the wall. It wants you to wire in a 120v plug to run the thing. No ground. Then you use Yellow on the common connection, Black to up, and Green to down.

You will want to see if pressing up/down again creates a 'stop' event. It is unusual for low voltage controls to have a dedicated stop event connection. This is because stop is typically either pressing the same direction a second time, or by shorting common (Yellow) to both up and down (Black/Green) at the same time. If that doesn't work for this screen, then there will only be up and down, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

As far as I can tell, both of those products are basically the same thing.

Thanks BMXTRIX - I already own this one so great I will try it. So I need to use a cord like this and attached the Black wire to L and the White wire to N. Then attach my yellow wire from the RJ11 plug to the Common, Black to up, and Green to down. And if the stop button does not work then click up and down at the same or click the same direction button twice. I think I got it. Or can I add an on/off switch to the cord to stop it? Thanks again

 

[BMXTRIX]

That controller doesn't have a 'GROUND' on it, just Hot and Neutral. So, you need a cord more like this one...

Amazon.com

Just a two prong polarized cord, and make sure you land hot and neutral on the designated terminals of the controller box.

The colors for the low voltage control should be accurate. The stop function I have no idea how it works with what you have. Maybe hitting up a second time stops it. Maybe not. Maybe hitting both at once stops it. Maybe not. It really isn't a industry standard for this type of control and over the years I have just had to test stuff to see how it happens to behave.

 

[Bunzmon]

Got it - Thanks BMXTRIX. I was able to hook it all up last night with the 2 wire cord like you described. Definitely making progress. The power light on the remote receiver lights up when plugged in. When I click on one of the 3 buttons - Up, Stop, Down the operating light illuminates and I hear a click. The issue I am having is that even though the receiver is receiving the function based on the light and click its not responding with the function in a consistent manner. In some cases I am clicking on the remote button 10-12 times before the screen moves. And strangely when the screen does move it will stop after moving a few inches to a foot in some cases. I watched the power light to see if the power is cutting out and it doesn't seem too. I then thought that maybe there's an issue with the remote so I got closer to the receiver and even tried to use the up/down/stop buttons on the receiver and I get nothing. I did reach out to the vendor to see if there is a learn button or button sequence to get it into a type of learn mode. Maybe I have a bad receiver? I also know its not the screen motor since using your idea with the touching pairs of wire together from the RJ11 plug the screen went all the way up, stopped, and back down. If I can't get the RF remote working I would be fine with mounting a wire and switch. Thanks again - This is actually kind of fun and a bit frustrating. Learning quite a bit though.

 

[BMXTRIX]

It is possible that the relays need to remain held closed during the entire travel of the screen. That's unusual. Once again, you should do some testing on this. If you just touch the yellow and green together for two seconds. Does the screen go all the way down? Or does it stop when you pull the wires apart? If it needs the wires held together during the entire travel time, then that would (once again) be atypical, and the box probably doesn't perform that function. Unless it could be programmed to do so, which would surprise me. Most screens just require a quick tap of common and down together, then they can be released, and the screen will fully deploy to a lowered position.

If that IS how the screen works, then I'm not sure why things aren't working properly. As the contact closure in the control should just be shorting yellow and green for a moment and then yellow and black to take it the other direction. But, it is a momentary closure. Typically about one second.

 

[highfigh]

Got it - Thanks BMXTRIX. I was able to hook it all up last night with the 2 wire cord like you described. Definitely making progress. The power light on the remote receiver lights up when plugged in. When I click on one of the 3 buttons - Up, Stop, Down the operating light illuminates and I hear a click. The issue I am having is that even though the receiver is receiving the function based on the light and click its not responding with the function in a consistent manner. In some cases I am clicking on the remote button 10-12 times before the screen moves. And strangely when the screen does move it will stop after moving a few inches to a foot in some cases. I watched the power light to see if the power is cutting out and it doesn't seem too. I then thought that maybe there's an issue with the remote so I got closer to the receiver and even tried to use the up/down/stop buttons on the receiver and I get nothing. I did reach out to the vendor to see if there is a learn button or button sequence to get it into a type of learn mode. Maybe I have a bad receiver? I also know its not the screen motor since using your idea with the touching pairs of wire together from the RJ11 plug the screen went all the way up, stopped, and back down. If I can't get the RF remote working I would be fine with mounting a wire and switch. Thanks again - This is actually kind of fun and a bit frustrating. Learning quite a bit though.

What happens if you press & hold the button?

 

[Bunzmon]

It is possible that the relays need to remain held closed during the entire travel of the screen. That's unusual. Once again, you should do some testing on this. If you just touch the yellow and green together for two seconds. Does the screen go all the way down? Or does it stop when you pull the wires apart? If it needs the wires held together during the entire travel time, then that would (once again) be atypical, and the box probably doesn't perform that function. Unless it could be programmed to do so, which would surprise me. Most screens just require a quick tap of common and down together, then they can be released, and the screen will fully deploy to a lowered position.

If that IS how the screen works, then I'm not sure why things aren't working properly. As the contact closure in the control should just be shorting yellow and green for a moment and then yellow and black to take it the other direction. But, it is a momentary closure. Typically about one second.

Thanks for staying with me on this BMXTRIX - I am pretty sure it was a quick contact with the wires to activate the movement and it continued until I stopped it or until the screen was all the way up or down but I will test it again and let you know. I also received a response from the vendor today about clearing the codes and relearning which I will try as well. Thanks again.

Here are the instructions from the vendor just in case someone else is reading this and needs help -

Instruction Manual:
1. Clear code: Long press the up button or down button of the receiving controller, the work indicator flashes slowly 3 times after 3 seconds, and the work indicator flashes 3 times quickly after 8 seconds, which means the code clearing is successful.
(After the code is cleared successfully, all the remote controllers that have been coded cannot be controlling the receiving controller. Please re-code the code if you need to use it)
2. Learning Code: Long press the up button, the work indicator will flash slowly after 3 seconds. At this time, press and hold the △ button on the remote control,
and the work indicator will flash 2 times quickly, indicating that the up button is successfully paired.
Long press the down button, the work indicator will flash slowly after 3 seconds. At this time, press and hold the ▽ key on the remote control,
and the work indicator will flash 2 times quickly, indicating that the down button is successfully paired.
(After finishing the study, press the up or down button on the remote control to see the work indicator light up) Otherwise, please study again.
The buttons on the controller and the buttons on the remote control can work in linkage and use each other.

Note:
*For your convenience, the remote control and receiver have been paired.
*Only the above package content, other products are not included.
*Light reflection and different displays may cause the color of the item in the picture a little different from the real thing. The measurement allowed error is +/- 1-3cm.
*Don't operate control buttons rapidly and frequently , because the controller is controlled.
by microprocessor , each operation state will response in 1second.
*If discover the LED lights darken or remote distance shorter, please replace the battery.

 

[Bunzmon]

What happens if you press & hold the button?

Thanks Highfigh - No difference from a quick click to a long hold on the button - It was very strange because there was zero consistency. I will test again and take notes to see if anything make sense but maybe after I clear the codes per the vendor instructions it might work. Thanks again!

 

[Bunzmon]

Big setback. I tried to relearn the remote and I get nothing. The receiver lights illuminate and the remote light illuminates but nothing activates the screen. So I unplugged it and tried again but nothing again. I tried just using the buttons on the receiver still nothing. To make sure the motor still had power I pushed down the learn button on the screen and it went through its test phase of raising and lowering the screen about 2 inches. So i have power and it seems like the motor is fine . Next I removed the rj11 plug wires from the receiver and tried to move the screen by touching the yellow and green/black wires again. No screen movement at all. I hear a small click in the screen when I touch the yellow and black but that’s it. I repeated this after pulling the power for a while and plugging it back in. No difference. I’m ready to throw this thing out but I thought let’s try a bit longer to save on the landfill and I really like the screen and it was a pita to setup my projector with it. So I took off the side of the screen with power and screws. Not much to it and it looks like the fuse is fine. Just because I was curious I was wondering if the old remote would work to lower the screen and stop it. Of course it worked but still can’t raise it. Now I’m even more confused. Please let me know if you still have time and interest to help. Not sure what to try from here.

 

[TLS Guy]

Big setback. I tried to relearn the remote and I get nothing. The receiver lights illuminate and the remote light illuminates but nothing activates the screen. So I unplugged it and tried again but nothing again. I tried just using the buttons on the receiver still nothing. To make sure the motor still had power I pushed down the learn button on the screen and it went through its test phase of raising and lowering the screen about 2 inches. So i have power and it seems like the motor is fine . Next I removed the rj11 plug wires from the receiver and tried to move the screen by touching the yellow and green/black wires again. No screen movement at all. I hear a small click in the screen when I touch the yellow and black but that’s it. I repeated this after pulling the power for a while and plugging it back in. No difference. I’m ready to throw this thing out but I thought let’s try a bit longer to save on the landfill and I really like the screen and it was a pita to setup my projector with it. So I took off the side of the screen with power and screws. Not much to it and it looks like the fuse is fine. Just because I was curious I was wondering if the old remote would work to lower the screen and stop it. Of course it worked but still can’t raise it. Now I’m even more confused. Please let me know if you still have time and interest to help. Not sure what to try from here.

The problem is I can't find a circuit, let alone a service manual.

You now need to trace that circuit and draw it out, so you can see how it works. I have a feeling there may be a bad relay, or feed to the relay.

I hope you have at least a good voltmeter, preferably and amplified VOM, so you don't do damage loading a fragile circuit with a standard cheap meter. I note there are ICs on the board, so you can't go around probing with a cheap meter from Home Depot.

Unless you have some experience of electronic equipment service, I now have a feeling you will not fix this screen. So unfortunately I have to say you are close or even at the end of the road for you to get this functional.

 

[Bunzmon]

The problem is I can't find a circuit, let alone a service manual.

You now need to trace that circuit and draw it out, so you can see how it works. I have a feeling there may be a bad relay, or feed to the relay.

I hope you have at least a good voltmeter, preferably and amplified VOM, so you don't do damage loading a fragile circuit with a standard cheap meter. I note there are ICs on the board, so you can't go around probing with a cheap meter from Home Depot.

Unless you have some experience of electronic equipment service, I now have a feeling you will not fix this screen. So unfortunately I have to say you are close or even at the end of the road for you to get this functional.

Thanks TLS Guy. I have a feeling you are probably right. I have an electrical engineering friend coming over tomorrow with his multimeter. Hoping he has an answer. The only hope I have is the old remote minus the up button works great. So strange.

 

[highfigh]

Thanks TLS Guy. I have a feeling you are probably right. I have an electrical engineering friend coming over tomorrow with his multimeter. Hoping he has an answer. The only hope I have is the old remote minus the up button works great. So strange.

He should bring an oscilloscope, if he has a portable one.

 

[highfigh]

Big setback. I tried to relearn the remote and I get nothing. The receiver lights illuminate and the remote light illuminates but nothing activates the screen. So I unplugged it and tried again but nothing again. I tried just using the buttons on the receiver still nothing. To make sure the motor still had power I pushed down the learn button on the screen and it went through its test phase of raising and lowering the screen about 2 inches. So i have power and it seems like the motor is fine . Next I removed the rj11 plug wires from the receiver and tried to move the screen by touching the yellow and green/black wires again. No screen movement at all. I hear a small click in the screen when I touch the yellow and black but that’s it. I repeated this after pulling the power for a while and plugging it back in. No difference. I’m ready to throw this thing out but I thought let’s try a bit longer to save on the landfill and I really like the screen and it was a pita to setup my projector with it. So I took off the side of the screen with power and screws. Not much to it and it looks like the fuse is fine. Just because I was curious I was wondering if the old remote would work to lower the screen and stop it. Of course it worked but still can’t raise it. Now I’m even more confused. Please let me know if you still have time and interest to help. Not sure what to try from here.

That learn button is only for learning the codes from a remote that was compatible with the receiver- just because it receives RF commands, it doesn't mean ANY/ALL will work.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks TLS Guy. I have a feeling you are probably right. I have an electrical engineering friend coming over tomorrow with his multimeter. Hoping he has an answer. The only hope I have is the old remote minus the up button works great. So strange.

It seems strange when you have no data. You can't begin to shed light on something this complicated without gathering data. Hopefully your friend can help you after he gets some measurements. A multimeter will be a start, but it really needs to be a VOM. He probably will need more than a meter.

However, I have felt for sometime, this unit needs a mod.

The motor is most likely DC since it reverses. If your friend can find the operating voltage, then you can probably make it work from a Walwart and a momentary reversing switch. That control would need to be placed in the wall and wired.

If you want the screen to work from a remote you are almost certainly out of luck at this point and you need to ditch that unit.

 

[BMXTRIX]

It seems strange when you have no data. You can't begin to shed light on something this complicated without gathering data. Hopefully your friend can help you after he gets some measurements. A multimeter will be a start, but it really needs to be a VOM. He probably will need more than a meter.

However, I have felt for sometime, this unit needs a mod.

The motor is most likely DC since it reverses. If your friend can find the operating voltage, then you can probably make it work from a Walwart and a momentary reversing switch. That control would need to be placed in the wall and wired.

If you want the screen to work from a remote you are almost certainly out of luck at this point and you need to ditch that unit.

As a guess, I think that the end cap is the controller and it is spitting out AV 120. The four wires coming out of it (red, black, green, white) are common for what I've seen from screens and controllers. I've wired up a number of low voltage contact closures to screens I've used over the years. DaLite, Draper models. They all come with a screen with 4 wires sticking out of it. The four wires can be wired into a high voltage wall switch directly. White for common, green to ground, black and red for up or down.

Not sure if this is the same or not, but I expect it likely is. So, the controller could possibly be completely replaced with a different unit that does the same closures for control. I'm just not 100% on any of it and just guessing from prior experience.

 

[Bunzmon]

That learn button is only for learning the codes from a remote that was compatible with the receiver- just because it receives RF commands, it doesn't mean ANY/ALL will work.

Thanks Highfigh - I ask him to bring the scope too - Makes sense on the RF learning remote

 

[Bunzmon]

It seems strange when you have no data. You can't begin to shed light on something this complicated without gathering data. Hopefully your friend can help you after he gets some measurements. A multimeter will be a start, but it really needs to be a VOM. He probably will need more than a meter.

However, I have felt for sometime, this unit needs a mod.

The motor is most likely DC since it reverses. If your friend can find the operating voltage, then you can probably make it work from a Walwart and a momentary reversing switch. That control would need to be placed in the wall and wired.

If you want the screen to work from a remote you are almost certainly out of luck at this point and you need to ditch that unit.

Thanks TLS Guy - We will try this - I asked him to bring a switch too.

 

[Bunzmon]

As a guess, I think that the end cap is the controller and it is spitting out AV 120. The four wires coming out of it (red, black, green, white) are common for what I've seen from screens and controllers. I've wired up a number of low voltage contact closures to screens I've used over the years. DaLite, Draper models. They all come with a screen with 4 wires sticking out of it. The four wires can be wired into a high voltage wall switch directly. White for common, green to ground, black and red for up or down.

Not sure if this is the same or not, but I expect it likely is. So, the controller could possibly be completely replaced with a different unit that does the same closures for control. I'm just not 100% on any of it and just guessing from prior experience.

Thanks BMXTRIX - I will give this information to my electrical friend. It should be pretty simple to try it.