Bose Analogy

[Shadow_Ferret]

...analog stereo...whatever other info I glean in the process gets filed away for future reference.

I like to answer questions when I can re: my main interest...but I find I must be somewhat conversant in the newer stuff; that doesn't mean I have to like it. Particularly in that I see HT as the cause for the demise of reasonably-priced, full-featured, hi-fi components.

jimHJJ(...relatively simple I guess...)

As good a reason as any. I'm here because I'm tired of just moving in stereo and want to expand the sound I get (and update everything from the 70s equipment I have in the process) for both music and to add that extra dimension to my television experience.

Besides, I'm suffering from that phenomenon where I have trouble differentiating voices from all the background clutter on the little TV speakers and hope that having a nice quality center speaker will solve that problem.

 

[audioqueso]

Both are frequently attempts to display status or wealth to impress others.

It's sad... it's like flossing a Honda Accord (no offense to Honda owners, great car, but not showing-off type material)... Bose owners think they're wealthy if they show it off? lol Good point though.

Now I can't say Bose is complete garbage. Yes, most owners are naive if they think Bose is the best sounding speaker in the world, but most owners buy it because they want a powerful (relatively speaking) system in as little space as possible. And Bose DEFINITELY delivers there. They can pump out a good amount of volume and you can hide them anywhere and the unit is so slim.

But Bose is still just overpriced-outstanding marketing-underpar material.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

It's sad... it's like flossing a Honda Accord

*stares at the statement a minute*

Um, OK, my dentist has told me to floss at least once a day, but he never mentioned I had to floss my Honda.

 

[anamorphic96]

What are you talking about Shadow. I floss my Honda twice a week. Where have you been ? Under a rock !!!

 

[audioqueso]

*stares at the statement a minute*

Um, OK, my dentist has told me to floss at least once a day, but he never mentioned I had to floss my Honda.

LOL... I meant flaunting.
LOL

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Sarcasm!

HT as the cause for the demise of reasonably-priced, full-featured, hi-fi components.

There are only 2 things wrong with that statement. "reasonably priced" has never, and will-never be Hi-Fi. If it can be afforded by the common working man, it can't be good. "Full featured" is a sign of a certain Lo-Fi product. Everyone knows Hi-Fi involves a seperate component for each stage of reproduction (Source, Pre-Amp, Power Amps, Interconnects, Speaker Cable, Loudspeaker, Subwoofer, Power Conditioner, Power RF Filter, Rack, Isolation material for rack, Magic rocks......). The only thing "full featured" is a receiver, and no Hi-Fi enthusiast would dare listen to anything on one of those.

 

[Resident Loser]

Well, if that's the case...

There are only 2 things wrong with that statement. "reasonably priced" has never, and will-never be Hi-Fi. If it can be afforded by the common working man, it can't be good. "Full featured" is a sign of a certain Lo-Fi product. Everyone knows Hi-Fi involves a seperate component for each stage of reproduction (Source, Pre-Amp, Power Amps, Interconnects, Speaker Cable, Loudspeaker, Subwoofer, Power Conditioner, Power RF Filter, Rack, Isolation material for rack, Magic rocks......). The only thing "full featured" is a receiver, and no Hi-Fi enthusiast would dare listen to anything on one of those.

...practically NONE of the HT stuff qualifies as Hi-Fi...it seems as though most folks have 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 receivers from the usual suspects...so, if that's the case why would there be any reason to constantly trash Bose?

BTW, you could, at one time, purchase an AM/FM tuner with outstanding specs AND an integrated amp of equal performance levels for around $600-700MSRP...The amp would be "full-featured" with at least one, if not two phono preamps one of which would have variable loading, source and output level pots, tone controls(possibly five bands of 'em), pre-out/power-in jacks and full tape mon/copy facilities...AND, as in the case of the aforementioned integrated, you could jackout of the preamp section and move up to a coupla' hundred wpc! Take a look at some of the questions that are posted here..."can I hook up twelve more amps to my whatzis-whatever?"

Nowadays you can't find much anything with the exception of a few receivers with SOME of those features until you get into the higher priced stuff...and many of them don't have tone controls because of the other end of the listening spectrum...

Now for that kind of money what do you get? Over-rated(power-wise), multi channel stuff with little or no flexibility for upgrading. And folks complain about some products being "closed-ended"?

jimHJJ(...just some observations...)

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

BTW, you could, at one time, purchase an AM/FM tuner with outstanding specs AND an integrated amp of equal performance levels for around $600-700MSRP...

What year are we talking? Because if you're talking 70s or so, that $600 translates into many times that nowadays, at least 3 times. So you're looking at something in the range of $2000. (Considering $19000 would get you a very nice home and $3000 would get you a brand new car.) I think that does qualify as Hi-Fi.

My pair of Polk Audio Monitor 7s that I picked up in 1977 for about $400 a pair would go for about $1200 a pair now.

 

[furrycute]

There are 2 things we are talking about here:

1) Quality
2) Price


Most Hi-Fi stereo components have
1) High quality
2) High price


Bose has
1) Low quality (EXTREMELY low quality using garbage grade components)
2) High price


This is the DIFFERENCE between real Hi-Fi components and Bose.


High end Krell, Mark Levinson, B&W, etc., gear are built to exceedingly high standards that give you impeccable sound reproduction. The same cannot be said of Bose. Bose fails miserably at the quality test.

 

[Audiosouse]

..two phono preamps one of which would have variable loading, source and output level pots, tone controls(possibly five bands of 'em), pre-out/power-in jacks and full tape mon/copy facilities...

What's phono and tape mean?

No excuse for the Rolex crowd...conspicuous consumption at it's best. It is however, one of the few luxury items available to mere mortals.

As for the Rolex vs. Bose comparison:

Rolex:
- Hand made
- Each watch requires one full year to produce
- Over 200 intacitely moving parts
- Heavy

Bose:
- Hands (likely Chinese) touched them at some point while being made
- One moving part (unless you count all those little styrofome sphere's dancing through the sub in the store demo)
- Pick up a Bose subwoofer lately? You can put away the kidney belt.

If you've seen Rolex internals, they are a mesmerizing dance of art and precison. If you've seen Bose internals...what the hell's this bent tube doing in here?...where's all the parts?

It's also nice to know that after listening to your $80K two channel system, you can pick up right where you left off in your Mercedes with it's optional Bose audio system. Click here to see if you're car's powerd by Bose:
http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_STATIC_PAGE_EVENT&url=/automotive/vehicles/index.jsp&pageName=/automotive/mazda/3.jsp

Why is Volkswagen the only one to recognize good sound contributes to comfort?
http://www.dynaudio.com/ (click on Automotive)

Now that's an impressive OEM system. I probably couldn't replicate that sound in the aftermarket and it definately wouldn't look as clean.

 

[Rob Babcock]

As for the Rolex vs. Bose comparison:

Rolex:
- Hand made
- Each watch requires one full year to produce
- Over 200 intacitely moving parts
- Heavy

Bose:
- Hands (likely Chinese) touched them at some point while being made
- One moving part (unless you count all those little styrofome sphere's dancing through the sub in the store demo)
- Pick up a Bose subwoofer lately? You can put away the kidney belt.

If you've seen Rolex internals, they are a mesmerizing dance of art and precison. If you've seen Bose internals...what the hell's this bent tube doing in here?...where's all the parts?

That's classic! I want that for my sig!

 

[Resident Loser]

It ain't necessarily so...

What year are we talking? Because if you're talking 70s or so, that $600 translates into many times that nowadays, at least 3 times. So you're looking at something in the range of $2000. (Considering $19000 would get you a very nice home and $3000 would get you a brand new car.) I think that does qualify as Hi-Fi.

You can buy a Marantz PM7200 Integrated for $549 and their ST6000 for $299...unfortunately the former has no pre out/power in. No other features that were once commonplace; likewise the tuner. $850, not far off my $600-700 figure.

My point is HT seems to have "dumbed-down" stereo components in favor of nothing but "bells and whistles". Is it a catch-22? Is it market driven or have the manufacturers driven the market with "new" this and that along with a heapin' helpin' o' hype? Them laser-blastin' mechanical lizards gots evabody mes-mo-rized!

SUVs were once a niche inhabited by a few...now look at 'em...gas-guzzlin' pig-mobiles that are more like rolling living rooms that the go-anywhere transport that they were intended to be...and unfortunately the yin-yang of "market" vagaries has contaminated even the bare-bones workhorses...My '81 CJ-7 had around a $7000 base price(as I recall) final cost with solid doors, hardtop and off-road package around $10k tax incl. Now look at the Wrangler, $17k or better...with squat...four-banger with soft top ...and why is that? It ain't just inflation.

Then there's the $5 cuppa'! Holy carp!...and everyone's gotta' have one.

But, I digress...I think you're off with your prices...quite bit. My father's '60 Plymouth with the slant-6 cost $3k...my house went for $44k in late '75...neither of 'em particularly special...no ps/pb on the car, less than 50x100 on the property...

Basically it's, if you build it they will come...

jimHJJ(...least that's my reckoning...)

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

Actually, no, my parents bought their home, a nice 3 bedroom lannon stone capecod in 1971 for $19000. My mom bought a brand new 1971 Superbeetle for less than $3000.

But anyway, manufacturers produce what the public is buying. If Hi-Fi guys like you and me are only 5% of the market (if that) they are going to cater to the portion where the interest, and money, is.

Years ago you could walk into any department store and buy your "stereo" system from them. Now the electronics section in department stores is gone and if you go to Target or K-Mart, all they really sell are cheapo HTiBs.

Why? Because people don't CARE about their sound any more. Blame it on MTV and videos or what have you, but people don't just sit and LISTEN to music any more. It's integrated into other things, TV watching, gaming, computers. The days of inviting people over and just actively LISTENING to an album are long gone.

 

[Audiosouse]

Why? Because people don't CARE about their sound any more. Blame it on MTV and videos or what have you, but people don't just sit and LISTEN to music any more. It's integrated into other things, TV watching, gaming, computers. The days of inviting people over and just actively LISTENING to an album are long gone.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Thanks to Apple, I've yet to see a kid walking around without wearing little white ear buds! There's a whole generation of headphone listerers out there! We just have to convince them to trade those ear buds for Etymotics and a nice portable headphone amp!

 

[Rob Babcock]

I disagree wholeheartedly. Thanks to Apple, I've yet to see a kid walking around without wearing little white ear buds! There's a whole generation of headphone listerers out there! We just have to convince them to trade those ear buds for Etymotics and a nice portable headphone amp!

Indirectly I think you just proved the point. Kids walk around with music on, but to them it's just part of the background noise, a diversion. How many people do you know under 30 (or of any age, for that matter) that actually sit down, dim the lights, put down the gameboy and simply listen to the music as an activity? I sure don't know very many.

 

[jaxvon]

I certainly do. It's been awhile since I have (I spend a lot of time in my car), but I love to sit down and just listen. When I'm home alone I will often sit down, throw on an album I haven't heard in awhile, and just sit back and enjoy.

Stuff you should check out if you like jazz-ish stuff:

Passport (Klaus Doldinger)
Bruce Hornsby

 

[zipper]

Me too...................love to turn off the lights, kick back, & listen to whatever I'm in the mood for..................might be the only real relaxation I get anymore.

 

[markw]

Sit in the recliner, a caipirinha in my hand, sweet sweet music on...

...ahh.... life does have it's grand monents.

...and when my lovely wife enters the picture, it's pure heaven.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Of course we do. I mean "civilians/normal people." Please, tell me your friends could see you sitting in the dark with a snifter of cognac for four hours listening to jazz music with no pictures and not think it was a little strange.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

Ah... cognac.

I think we here are a different lot. We care about sound, in most cases high quality sound, or we wouldn't be here.

I don't know anybody in my social circle that has a decent stereo, much less a home theater system. I know a few who have boomboxes, or those "mini" stereo systems, and one who has an HTiB.

I don't know the reason why, but when I was younger, in the Navy, in college, EVERYONE had a stereo. Everyone sat and just listened to music, vegged out to whatever, rock, jazz, whatever. Some did it stoned. Some did it straight.

Is it MTV? Is it the price of CDs? Is it MP3s and free downloads where bands become faceless? I don't know, but somewhere along the way things changed and music isn't the focal point of their lives. It's background music, incidental music.