Bookshelf and Receiver questions from a noob

[DJ in TX]

Hey JerryLove,

I haven't purchased any of this equipment yet. I am in the researching phase at the moment determining what I need to buy. I had all but decided on this Yamaha receiver when I accidentally read a review online warning that it doesn't do audio over HDMI, which seemed strange to me since HDMI is intended to provide audio and video over a single cable.

At this point I am very confused by switching/pass through vs. repeating. I thought I understood Forest to say that switching/pass through would be fine for me and not strip out the audio, but the more I read the more it sounds like it will do just that. So I am not sure. To be safe I could just go with a receiver that repeats, but they are more expensive, almost double in price according to my research, which blows my meager budget.

 

[lsiberian]

Where in Texas are you?

If your in driving distance I'd be willling to cut you a deal on my HK AVR 247. I want to go pre-pro in the future.

It's HDMI repeating might be in your budget range and I've treated it pretty well.

 

[DJ in TX]

Where in Texas are you?

If your in driving distance I'd be willling to cut you a deal on my HK AVR 247. I want to go pre-pro in the future.

It's HDMI repeating might be in your budget range and I've treated it pretty well.

I'm in Austin. What kind of a deal did you have in mind?

 

[JerryLove]

At this point I am very confused by switching/pass through vs. repeating.

Imagine a HDMI cable from your TV to your X-Box.
Now imagine unplugging the cable from your X-Box and plugging that end into your DVD.

You've just become a switch.

That's what an HDMI switch does. It changes a signal path from IN1 -> OUT1 to IN2 -> OUT1 (or something similar).

It does nothing at all to the actual signal... the signal just "passes through" the switch.

If you want the speakers to play music from an HDMI signal, the receiver needs to actually read the HDMI, not just pass it through.

I thought I understood Forest to say that switching/pass through would be fine for me and not strip out the audio, but the more I read the more it sounds like it will do just that.

It's not stripping the audio... it's just not reading the audio and turning it into sound either. I suspect that it passes the audio through just like the video.

So I am not sure. To be safe I could just go with a receiver that repeats, but they are more expensive, almost double in price according to my research, which blows my meager budget.

If you really want my advice there: buy used. I rarely if ever byy new AVRs any more: the costs are just too high for decent ones.

But you already knew you wouldn't be decoding DTS-Master and the like: why not just run a digital audio cable alongside the HDMI?

 

[DJ in TX]

Imagine a HDMI cable from your TV to your X-Box.
Now imagine unplugging the cable from your X-Box and plugging that end into your DVD.

You've just become a switch.

That's what an HDMI switch does. It changes a signal path from IN1 -> OUT1 to IN2 -> OUT1 (or something similar).

It does nothing at all to the actual signal... the signal just "passes through" the switch.

If you want the speakers to play music from an HDMI signal, the receiver needs to actually read the HDMI, not just pass it through.

It's not stripping the audio... it's just not reading the audio and turning it into sound either. I suspect that it passes the audio through just like the video.

If you really want my advice there: buy used. I rarely if ever byy new AVRs any more: the costs are just too high for decent ones.

But you already knew you wouldn't be decoding DTS-Master and the like: why not just run a digital audio cable alongside the HDMI?

So if I did this, then I would need to run a digital audio cable from all HDMI sources of Audio? so both the Xbox and cable box would need one running to the receiver? I don't even know if the XBox has a digital audio out. Also, it looks like this particular receiver only has 2 optical audio inputs, and one coaxial input. So this would mean that I could only add one more HDMI component before I am maxed out? Am I understanding correctly?

 

[DJ in TX]

Well, I at least answered one of my questions. Since this yamaha only has two HDMI inputs, then it makes sense it would only need two digital audio inputs. It all still seems confusing though, and I still want to find out from you guys if I am understanding correctly. Will both the xbox and cable box need a separate digital audio cable running from their outputs into the inputs on the back of the receiver in order for me to hear the respective audio feeds over the speakers connected to the receiver? Or did I miss the boat somewhere along the way?

 

[njedpx3]

Well, I at least answered one of my questions. Since this yamaha only has two HDMI inputs, then it makes sense it would only need two digital audio inputs. It all still seems confusing though, and I still want to find out from you guys if I am understanding correctly. Will both the xbox and cable box need a separate digital audio cable running from their outputs into the inputs on the back of the receiver in order for me to hear the respective audio feeds over the speakers connected to the receiver? Or did I miss the boat somewhere along the way?

You are correct. You can connect the audio from each source ( xbox and cable, two RCA cables each, usually red and white) to the receiver (AVR) you could also connect digital optical input audio and have high level audio ( one digital optical cable for each source; about $15 for a 6 foot cable from Wal-Mart).

Again sorry about confusion between HDMI passthrough and HDMI repeating.

Later,

Forest Man

 

[njedpx3]

Where in Texas are you?

If your in driving distance I'd be willling to cut you a deal on my HK AVR 247. I want to go pre-pro in the future.

It's HDMI repeating might be in your budget range and I've treated it pretty well.

OP, this would be a good deal for you. With repeating it simplifies your connection. Three total HDMI cables. One from cable box to HK AVR 247, one form x-box to HK AVR 247 and one from HK AVR 247 to your TV.

pre-pro is needed if you want to add an external amplifier later to provide more power to you future front tower speakers.

 

[lsiberian]

OP, this would be a good deal for you. With repeating it simplifies your connection. Three total HDMI cables. One from cable box to HK AVR 247, one form x-box to HK AVR 247 and one from HK AVR 247 to your TV.

pre-pro is needed if you want to add an external amplifier later to provide more power to you future front tower speakers.

It does have pre-pro output. I'd just like to get out of receivers eventually. Dunno how well it would fly with the wife at this point though.

I built the speakers I have so they aren't going anywhere soon. But I do have plans for bottoms to them(JL Audio 8w6's) and a TC Sounds sub.

And now I have a workmate. My next tasks will be painting and modding my current speakers, The task keeps changing though.

 

[DJ in TX]

OP, this would be a good deal for you. With repeating it simplifies your connection. Three total HDMI cables. One from cable box to HK AVR 247, one form x-box to HK AVR 247 and one from HK AVR 247 to your TV.

pre-pro is needed if you want to add an external amplifier later to provide more power to you future front tower speakers.

So what about this. I spent some time this evening looking for a low cost good receiver that does HDMI repeating to eliminate this problem. I have always been partial to Yamaha and Pioneer, and as luck would have it, I found a couple of affordable Pioneer receivers that would do this.

So what do you all think of Pioneer in general as far as receivers go? Assuming Pioneer still makes good product, then what do you think about these?

Pioneer 5.1-Channel A/V Receiver VSX-519V-K $179 at NewEgg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117303

Pioneer 5.1-Channel A/V Receiver VSX-819H-K $249 at NewEgg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117302

As always, I appreciate any feedback.

 

[Seth=L]

So what about this. I spent some time this evening looking for a low cost good receiver that does HDMI repeating to eliminate this problem. I have always been partial to Yamaha and Pioneer, and as luck would have it, I found a couple of affordable Pioneer receivers that would do this.

So what do you all think of Pioneer in general as far as receivers go? Assuming Pioneer still makes good product, then what do you think about these?

Pioneer 5.1-Channel A/V Receiver VSX-519V-K $179 at NewEgg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117303

Pioneer 5.1-Channel A/V Receiver VSX-819H-K $249 at NewEgg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117302

As always, I appreciate any feedback.

I personally recommend the Pioneer VSX-519, a greaty entry level receiver with HDMI audio support. The VSX-819 shares the same amplifier design (adds preouts for surround back) and has on-board DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD decoding. I believe it also has an extra HDMI port among a few other features.

Either of those receivers present a great value at those prices.

Yamaha's newest low-fi receivers are quite a let down, they seem to be following the bead of logic that Pioneer was following for the past several years for their base models, but Pioneer reworked this line. The only model in the Pioneer line that got trounced was the VSX-1019. The VSX-1019 focuses on features, and significant cutbacks where made on the amplifier section.

 

[njedpx3]

I personally recommend the Pioneer VSX-519, a greaty entry level receiver with HDMI audio support. The VSX-819 shares the same amplifier design (adds preouts for surround back) and has on-board DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD decoding. I believe it also has an extra HDMI port among a few other features.

Either of those receivers present a great value at those prices.

Yamaha's newest low-fi receivers are quite a let down, they seem to be following the bead of logic that Pioneer was following for the past several years for their base models, but Pioneer reworked this line. The only model in the Pioneer line that got trounced was the VSX-1019. The VSX-1019 focuses on features, and significant cutbacks where made on the amplifier section.

Pioneers make good receivers. I would go along with OP and Seth's recommendation about the VSX-519.

However, I have not heard any bad reivews or problems about the lower end Yamaha receivers in the RX-V line. I have always had very good luck with Yamaha electronic products, as well as Pioneer . But digressing my favorite is Marantz (which I have, along with 1 Yamaha and 2 Pioneer ) and McIntosh if I could justify the cost.

Forest Man

 

[DJ in TX]

Given the lack of HDMI audio on the affordable Yamahas, I think going Pioneer is probably what I will need to do. I am leaning toward the 519 due to its super low price ($179- NewEgg), although the extra HDMI port on the 819 is tempting. Just not sure if the extra $70 is worth it. There are a few other features too, just not sure yet.

In any case, now all I need to do is go audition the Atoms this weekend to see how they sound, and I should be all set. I called my high end audio store about the Atoms, and they do carry them, but they are $299/pair. I just wish they were a bit cheaper. Makes me wonder if they would negotiate this price at all. Or maybe they have some open box deals, or some trade-ins. Or, if I get the receiver and the speakers there, maybe they will cut me a deal. Are there typically deals like this to be found at a high end audio dealer?

So, obviously I wont need any digital audio cables now. And I know what I am doing with HDMI cables (no expeinsive cable needed). So all I need to find out about from you all is about speaker wire. I know in relation to HDMI, Monster Cable charges out the butt for their cables, when much less expensive alternatives are just as good. Does the same apply for speaker wire? Let me know if there are any important rules I need to be aware of as far as brands to avoid, brands to get, recommended speaker wire lengths, and where to find the best deals. I don't know anything about speaker wire, so let me know anything I need to be aware of.

Thanks!

 

[JerryLove]

However, I have not heard any bad reivews or problems about the lower end Yamaha receivers in the RX-V line. I have always had very good luck with Yamaha electronic products, as well as Pioneer . But digressing my favorite is Marantz (which I have, along with 1 Yamaha and 2 Pioneer ) and McIntosh if I could justify the cost.

My Pioneers have been relgated to "parent duty", my main HT runs off a Marantz 7002, and my 20channel runs off a 30-year-old Mc.

I like the cut of your jib

 

[JerryLove]

In any case, now all I need to do is go audition the Atoms this weekend to see how they sound, and I should be all set. I called my high end audio store about the Atoms, and they do carry them, but they are $299/pair. I just wish they were a bit cheaper. Makes me wonder if they would negotiate this price at all. Or maybe they have some open box deals, or some trade-ins. Or, if I get the receiver and the speakers there, maybe they will cut me a deal. Are there typically deals like this to be found at a high end audio dealer?

High-end dealers typically have room to negotiate, yes.

So, obviously I wont need any digital audio cables now. And I know what I am doing with HDMI cables (no expeinsive cable needed).

~chanting~ blue...jeans... cable...

So all I need to find out about from you all is about speaker wire.

The second least-picky wire to be found (after the power cable) when it comes to audio. Grab inexpensive moderate gauge wire. Here's a chart for gauge: http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable

 

[DJ in TX]

So from this chart, would moderate guage just be somewhere in the middle, like 16 AWG? Also, how do I interpret the Ohm load, in order ot get the right one?

I plan to have my speakers within 2-3 feet on either side of my entertainment center, but will probably get two 10-12 foot sections of wire so I will have a little flexibility. Using tis chart and the blue jeans cables site, it looks like I would pay about $34 per section assuming I get terminating (bananas to bananas). Is this a good price?

Should I be getting terminating or non-terminating? bananas or spades? WIll this depend on the speakers and the receiver?

 

[JerryLove]

Your Ohm load is determined by your speakers (they have a published OHM rating). When in doubt just got a little bigger.

You are running 10ft? 16AWG is plenty big enough.

Putting any ends on cables is basically for your convenience. On things I rarely touch, I just use bare wire. Cheapest thing to do is go buy a spool of 16AWG wire from (who has a low price, home depot?) and a wire-stripper and custom-cut yourself.

I love BJC for HDMI (nothing wrong with Monoprice either). I can think of valid reasons to get their interconnects despite the better price at monoprice (mostly because the connectors on BJC hold fast compared to monoprice). For speaker cable, though, I would go as cheap as possible.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239 ($13 for 100' 16-gauge to cover present and future needs). Even with shipping that's only $19. But check locally to see if you can do better by not shipping speaker wire.

 

[lsiberian]

I run 16 gauge to my mains across the living room. You'll be fine with that in most in room runs. For attic runs I suggest 12 or 14 gauge.

 

[DJ in TX]

So is a lower number for guage actually higher quality?

 

[JerryLove]

So is a lower number for guage actually higher quality?

Lower gauge is bigger, and therefore lower resistance, and therefore better (or just the same).

Do try Google or Wiki for at least a couple of these.