Biwiring Question and driving RBH 4-ohm speakers on a Yamaha RX-V2600

[HTHOLIC]

Hey everyone I just wanted to know about BI-WIRING speakers

Someone I know had bought a RBH 1266 SE/R system and the plate jumpers are removed.

If anyone of you aren't familiar the plate jumper is what connects the RED and black speaker terminals ( to another set of RED and Black (positive and negative to put it another way)


The ONLY way I can USE the speakers is if I , biwire or Bi-amp it. My friend's Yamaha receiver has all 7 channels in use for speakers, but maybe bi-amping might be possible with the yamaha?


In any case, I was well advised by alan loft, and others as well as this website, (although I had to dig up the yamaha review for the 8 ohm setting), that you NEVER use a 4-ohm setting for speakers with any receiver.I was informed about the yamaha but wasn't sure about the others.

Anyways, Yamaha should've put that in the manual because not everyone knows about it, atleast I did my research beforehand

 

[mtrycrafts]

The ONLY way I can USE the speakers is if I , biwire or Bi-amp it. My friend's Yamaha receiver has all 7 channels in use for speakers, but maybe bi-amping might be possible with the yamaha?

Why is this? You can always place a short wire between the two red and two black posts. Case solved.

 

[HTHOLIC]

Actually Not

I think they have those upgraded WBT binding posts,

Which bare wire goes into them.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I think they have those upgraded WBT binding posts,

Which bare wire goes into them.

Don't know about those binding posts but any wire that would fit and still accept the wire to one set of posts. the new wire jumpers are it.
Do you have a link to those posts?

 

[Dolby CP-200]

Click on and scroll down to the bottom to where it says “Bi-Wiring & Bi-Amplifying Video.”

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/videos/secrets-solutions/bi-wiring-bi-amplifying-9-2006/bi-wiring-bi-amplifying-9-01-06-index.html

 

[Seth=L]

Dun, dun, dun!

Which WBT's did you get, I think they still accept bare wire. And you could always get another set of jumpers. Bi-wiring would be more expensive than getting new jumpers, and bi-amping would be expensive and not have any impact on the sound (it will do the same thing as bi-wiring when you connect it to the same amp, one power supply for any and all channels)

 

[mtrycrafts]

Dun, dun, dun!

That is a good picture showing a wire jumper. Keep it for future use.

 

[HTHOLIC]

Still a bit confused, is there a risk of a short

I can post you a picture, but is there a risk of a short, for example lets say's you wire a 12 guage to both sections?

The speaker in question is the RBH 1266 SE/SER/LSE.

I am not sure which WBT post was used , I guess I can find out , but they all look the same.

 

[markw]

Just follow the picture. It doesn't get any simpler than this.

I can post you a picture, but is there a risk of a short, for example lets say's you wire a 12 guage to both sections?

Only if you do something incredibly stoopid.

Connect red to red, black to black, and make sure there are no loose wires to touch each other.

 

[jinjuku]

You could always get NEW plate jumpers. or you could expose more of the conductor and thread it up through both binding posts.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Your sig line is killing me markw

 

[sivadselim]

......................and bi-amping would be expensive and not have any impact on the sound (it will do the same thing as bi-wiring when you connect it to the same amp, one power supply for any and all channels)

Then by definition, that wouldn't be "bi-amping".

Granted, the benefits of passively bi-amping by assigning the extra 6th and 7th amplifiers of a receiver (and many allow this, nowadays) that's only being used for "5.1" to bi-amp duty is marginal, at best.

BTW, replacing the standard flat connecting plates with speaker wire is a pretty useless endeavor (unless, of course, they've been lost, as in the OP's case). The binding plates that come with most speakers are more than sufficient enough to conduct the signal over such a short distance.

 

[OttoMatic]

(it will do the same thing as bi-wiring when you connect it to the same amp, one power supply for any and all channels)

Why is that?

Are you saying that if I took a big five-channel amp like this, and used four of the channels to bi-amp my mains, and the other for the center, it wouldn't be considered bi-amping?

I don't see that having a single power supply is the limiting factor, though it can be. If the power supply section of the amplifier is built properly, but the amp sections are poor, then it's a limitation of the amplifier sections.

I agree that using potentially reassignable channels 6 and 7 of a receiver probably won't get you much more. However, if that receiver's power supply and amps are properly designed, you might.

I'm not trying to cause any trouble, but it's a fairly bold statement you're making.

 

[sivadselim]

Why is that?

I'm not trying to cause any trouble, but it's a fairly bold statement you're making.

Honestly, what he's saying isnt really very clear.

 

[Seth=L]

Then by definition, that wouldn't be "bi-amping".

Granted, the benefits of passively bi-amping by assigning the extra 6th and 7th amplifiers of a receiver (and many allow this, nowadays) that's only being used for "5.1" to bi-amp duty is marginal, at best.

BTW, replacing the standard flat connecting plates with speaker wire is a pretty useless endeavor (unless, of course, they've been lost, as in the OP's case). The binding plates that come with most speakers are more than sufficient enough to conduct the signal over such a short distance.

Not really, because you are looking at a receiver with discrete output stages all capable of delivering near or above the full rated power of the receiver's total output.

Concerning the wires used as jumpers, why is this a useless endevour. I am missing the straps and don't want to buy more. The reason the straps are missing is because they are prone to vibrating at certain frequencies which is classified as distortion, and personally it annoyed me greatly.

 

[Seth=L]

Why is that?

Are you saying that if I took a big five-channel amp like this, and used four of the channels to bi-amp my mains, and the other for the center, it wouldn't be considered bi-amping?

I don't see that having a single power supply is the limiting factor, though it can be. If the power supply section of the amplifier is built properly, but the amp sections are poor, then it's a limitation of the amplifier sections.

I agree that using potentially reassignable channels 6 and 7 of a receiver probably won't get you much more. However, if that receiver's power supply and amps are properly designed, you might.

I'm not trying to cause any trouble, but it's a fairly bold statement you're making.

By looking, only briefly, at that amplifier it appears to be much like so many other modern modular style amplifiers. Any channel in that amplifier should be able to output up to the full output of the amplifier. So one channel could achieve, for a short time, 1000 watts at 8 ohms. The output stages on these high end amplifiers can handle excessive amounts of power, more than necessary, and this helps two things. It helps dynamics, if each channel was limited to only 200 watts of total output it would be a rather poor performing amplifier given its price. It also helps ensure the channels don't fry when hit with sudden and difficult loads at high output levels.

I am afraid I can be no more clear than that.

 

[sivadselim]

Not really, because you are looking at a receiver with discrete output stages all capable of delivering near or above the full rated power of the receiver's total output.

I'm not sure what you are saying "not really" to. In your post, which was hard to understand, exactly, what you were describing seemed to me to be bi-wiring a speaker off of the same amplifier which is not he same thing as passively bi-amping a speaker off of 2 different amplifiers.

Concerning the wires used as jumpers, why is this a useless endevour. I am missing the straps and don't want to buy more. The reason the straps are missing is because they are prone to vibrating at certain frequencies which is classified as distortion, and personally it annoyed me greatly.

I said that the only reason to replace them was if they were missing. I consider it a useless endeavor, because as I explained, replacing them woith speaker wire will provide no benefit. If the binding plates are vibrating, this is indicative of the binding post knobs simply not being screwed down tightly enough. Of course this problem can obviously be circumvented by replacing them with wires. It could also be alleviated by screwing the binding post knobs down more tightly.

 

[sivadselim]

By looking, only briefly, at that amplifier it appears to be much like so many other modern modular style amplifiers. Any channel in that amplifier should be able to output up to the full output of the amplifier. So one channel could achieve, for a short time, 1000 watts at 8 ohms. The output stages on these high end amplifiers can handle excessive amounts of power, more than necessary, and this helps two things. It helps dynamics, if each channel was limited to only 200 watts of total output it would be a rather poor performing amplifier given its price. It also helps ensure the channels don't fry when hit with sudden and difficult loads at high output levels.

I am afraid I can be no more clear than that.

But passively bi-amping a speaker by utilizing 2 amps of an amplifier/receiver, although perhaps not doubly beneficial for any number of reasons, is still completely different than amplifying a speaker with only one amp of the same amplifier/receiver.

 

[HTHOLIC]

Ok, Im confused now

So what should I do with the RBH speakers?

How does one reattach a plate jumper anyways.

Most Stereo amps I see such as emotiva don't have biamping capability , they just have one red and black for each channel.

 

[OttoMatic]

But passively bi-amping a speaker by utilizing 2 amps of an amplifier/receiver, although perhaps not doubly beneficial for any number of reasons, is still completely different than amplifying a speaker with only one amp of the same amplifier/receiver.

Well stated, sivadselim. My point exactly.