Bics or Ascend Acoustics for my low budget HT?

[Buger]

Hello. I just found this forum last week. What a great place! I’ve found it to be very helpful so far! Based on some of the low budget HT audio threads, I think I’ve found a couple systems that I can put together with a $2000 - 2500 dollar budget. I’m looking at the two following systems:

Receiver: Yamaha HTR-5890 $475
Fronts: Bic DV84 $340
Center: Bic DV62CLR-S $110
Surrounds: Bic DV62si $125
Sub: HSU VTF-3 MK2 $750
Wiring: ~ $50

Or

Receiver: Yamaha HTR-5890 $475
Fronts: Ascend CMT-340M $548
Center: Ascend CMT-340C $298
Surrounds: Ascend CBM-170 $328
Sub: HSU VTF-3 MK2 $750
Wiring: ~ $50

Movies and Music will be about 50/50. Its going in a mid-sized living room with vaulted ceilings.

My question is, do you guys think paying about 600 dollars more for the Ascends rather than the Bics would be a better way to go? The Ascends coupled with the HSU sub seem to have quite a few great reviews.

I wish I had found this forum a while back before my wife and I got a bose lifestyle for $1500. Luckily I sold them for the same price I paid and can put that money toward a system that I think will blow the doors off the bose. I thought music on the bose was terrible. Movies were a lot better but I still found myself constantly wanting more power and fullness, especially in the mids and lows.

Any help with which speakers to go with would be appreciated. Either way, I’m sure I wont be disappointed.

Thanks

 

[markw]

Apples to oranges cubed.

It's always best for you to listen for yourself rather than depend on the opinoin of strangers and the written (internet?) word.

Secondly, when asking for info like this it seems as if you're taking a vote. Since everyone has their own personal preferences, their opinions will be somewhat biased. FWIW, I prefer brunettes myself.

Third, there is quite a price differential here. I'm sure all the wunnerful things you've read were when comparing them with other systems within their price range. One would hope (assume?) that the one costing more would sound better. If you're hoping for some magic bullet that tells you otherwise, well...

I suggest you try them as long as you have return privileges. Yes, it's a pain but understand, only you know what's best. If you can get 'em lovally, that's the best way to go. IF you haveto go theough the net, you'll have to accept that you will need to pay shipping and perhaps a restocking fee. After all, they shipped ou brand new speakers, You're returning used ones.

 

[Buger]

I’m so on the fence with this one that I guess I was looking for a little nudge in which direction to go. Your’re right, hearing them both in person is the only for sure way I’ll know which I like better. Thanks for you input.

 

[gene]

Buger;

In the price range you are looking at you should strongly consider Axiom Audio products, particularly their M3ti or M22ti speakers. They have significantly better build quality and accuracy than the BIC's. I think the Axiom/Ascend are more comparible choices to consider.

Check out our $5K Recommended System Guide and simply take out the Display and you should be close to your budget.

 

[Tex-amp]

The Ascend 170 is a better speaker than the M22. We had a GTG(get together) last year with many of the ID speakers and the Axiom M22 was ranked in the bottom by all but 1 or 2 of the roughly 30 folks there. The M22 doesn't have as good of mids as the 170 and it loses control over high highs.

Get a pair of each. Decide which you like best and send the other back and order the rest.

 

[gene]

The Ascends look nice. I am a fan of Aerogel midranges. We will have to get in a pair for review. Either way both the Ascend and Axioms are far better choices than the Bics. We have a pair in for review now and so far not impressed at all by build quality or parts usage.

 

[markw]

While we're recommending alternative favorites, ...

I'm exceedingly pleased with my Athena Audition system, which consists of a pair of F1 floorstanders for the front (400/pr), theit matching C1 Center (180) and a pair of B2 bookshelves for surrounds (250/pr). Granted, they have been superceded by the x.2 series but the prices seem to have held fast.

In '02 I put these up against the locally available major brand name contenders in their price range (in my house) and they came out on top.

And, the originals were available at Best Buy locally and on the web at http://www.audioadvisor.com which has generous exchange policies and occasionally runs a "no shipping charges" offer.

Addendum: I just checked and, yes, Audioadvisor is currently offering free shipping for orders over $50.

But, I also see where they are closing out the original series, the ones I have.
I don't see the F1 floorstanders (or a F1.2 either) BUT I DO see wherethe big bookshelves, the AS-B2's are on sale for $150/pr and the center is $100. So, since you've already decided on a (excellent) sub, for $400 you could have one heckuva a system. That seems to pretty much undercut anything you have listed. I'd give it a try if I were you.

 

[s2pdname]

Without trying to be too much of a cheerleader, the customer service and dedication to the consumer exhibited by Ascend Acoustics was what pushed me in that direction. When I was speaker shopping, I posted a couple of questions on the Ascend Forum and placed a few phone calls to the company. I was very impressed with the fact that the president of the company and speaker designer (Dave F) replied to my forum questions as well as answering questions over the phone.

The customer service is what got me to order a pair (170's) for audition, and after that I did not look back. I then ordered the 340C, and am now planning on ordering the 200's for surround duty in the very near future.

If you order just the pair of mains (340's or 170's) the return shipping is minimal (under $30), and anyway the only place to truly hear how a speaker will sound in your room is....in your room.

Best of luck, and most of all...have fun!

Rich

 

[silversurfer]

The Ascends look nice. I am a fan of Aerogel midranges. We will have to get in a pair for review. Either way both the Ascend and Axioms are far better choices than the Bics. We have a pair in for review now and so far not impressed at all by build quality or parts usage.

Gene...the BICs have been very intrigueing to me because of how they are portrayed here on your forum. I was skeptical at first, but the more positive reviews had me thinking "hmmmmm". The pair that you have for review now, are they the same model?

Now I am skeptical of them again.

 

[MacManNM]

The Ascends look nice. I am a fan of Aerogel midranges. We will have to get in a pair for review. Either way both the Ascend and Axioms are far better choices than the Bics. We have a pair in for review now and so far not impressed at all by build quality or parts usage.

Really? What pair is that? How do they sound?

 

[gene]

Really? What pair is that? How do they sound?

The pair Ray has in for review are the DV-62's.

As for the Aerogel mid, the last Aerogel mid I heard was on the Pinnacle Aerogel towers. The best attribute of that speaker was the midrange which incidentally was a 5 1/4" Audax Aerogel. The Ascends seem to use a very similar driver, most likely an Audax.

 

[Tex-amp]

The Ascend drivers are a proprietary designs made for them by Audax. And they do excel in the mid-range. They are 6.5" for the 170 and 340 and 4" for the HTM-200.

 

[Kurt C.]

I'm exceedingly pleased with my Athena Audition system

Don't forget about the room.

I have four Athena Audition AS-B1s as front/surrounds with an AS-C1 center and an SVS PB-10 sub. After installing them in my HT and doing a sweep of the frequency response, I discovered that the room has multiple peaks and dips of more than 10 dB. After a bit of reading, I discovered that this is quite common. It's a shame to spend a lot of time/money finding a great speaker only to plop it into an untreated room.

Fortunately, I'd saved enough money on my speakers that I could afford to put some towards treating the room with sound absorbing panels etc. The situation is improved (now it's ±5dB), but the room needs more work.

It seems to me that putting a speaker like the Ascend CMB-170s, which has a fantasticly flat frequency response, into my less-than optimal room would be a waste. However, once I do get the room sorted out, I plan on giving Ascend CMB-170s a try.

 

[Tex-amp]

It seems to me that putting a speaker like the Ascend CMB-170s, which has a fantasticly flat frequency response, into my less-than optimal room would be a waste. However, once I do get the room sorted out, I plan on giving Ascend CMB-170s a try.

Why? Unless a bump or dip in a speaker's response happens to cancel out a null in your room a flatter response speaker is going to sound better.

 

[Tex-amp]

It seems to me that putting a speaker like the Ascend CMB-170s, which has a fantasticly flat frequency response, into my less-than optimal room would be a waste. However, once I do get the room sorted out, I plan on giving Ascend CMB-170s a try.

Why? Unless a bump or dip in a speaker's response happens to cancel out a null in your room a flatter response speaker is going to be more accurate.

 

[j_garcia]

IMO, the 340 setup is the way I would go. The Axioms are great speakers, but I was not totally blown away by them. The enclosure design is interesting, but they still felt a bit cheap (light) and not so solid, IMO. The M3s and M22s seem to lack a bit of extension, and the highs are just a tad bright. I haven't heard the centers, but they use the same drivers, so I would expect more of the same. I preferred the Axiom's midrange to the Paradigm Monitor series I owned at the time, and the highs were similar.

I love a good soft dome tweeter, and the Ascends have one They are all about midrange clarity, IMO, and that works whether you listen to mostly music or movies.

I've never heard the BICs, so can't comment on them.

 

[Kurt C.]

Why? Unless a bump or dip in a speaker's response happens to cancel out a null in your room a flatter response speaker is going to be more accurate.

A speaker's accuracy and the flatness of it's frequency reponse are the same thing.It doesn't matter how accurate a speaker is if you put it into a lousy room. Since I had limited budget and could have either:

1) Put a $1000 set of speakers with a perfectly flat frequency (anechoic) response in my untreated room (which imposes peaks/valleys of ±10dB on any speaker)
or
2) Put a $300 set of speakers with a ±5dB frequency response into my room and spend $300 to treat the room so that it only imposes peaks/valleys of ±5dB.

I'd get a better 'in room' frequency response doing the latter (Not to mention saving $400 which I can later use to get better speakers or more room treatment as needed).

 

[Tex-amp]

Your dB variation may be less with the cheaper speakers and room treatments but what about imaging and soundstage differences in the two speakers, or the tweeters' control over highs, separation of instruments/voices, how it is voiced, etc ? Room treatments aren't going to do much there.

I'd take the better speaker first to enjoy those differences and do the room treatments second.

Does that qualify as a "straw man" since I didn't follow my original question/comment that you answered and gave different reasons not related to frequency response?

 

[Buger]

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions and different speaker options. Seems to be quite a few great speaker choices. I’m kind of leaning towards the Ascends but may do what some suggested and order a couple brands and compare with the option of returning.

Rich, I’m definitely having fun. I’m so excited I can hardly stand it It’ll be 2 or 3 weeks before I can order. In the mean time I’m trying to learn everything I can. I’m still pretty new to all the technical stuff. From what I’ve read, once I get my system, I’ll need to get an SPL meter and (AVIA maybe?) to calibrate and get the crossovers right to get the most out of it. It feels like I’ve got a lot to learn, but it ought to be a fun journey.

 

[MacManNM]

Anyone can slam the build quality (7 year warranty to back it up). Too many people have heard the BIC products to say they are junk. With the Frias mod they are hard to beat. Are they the best thing since sliced bread? Probably not, but they are the best sounding unit you are going to find 2-3x the price, with the mod, maybe a lot more.

Gene, let’s do some measurements. I want to see a full set of measurements on these DV62 si’s, with and without the mods. Heck, I’ll pay for the mods, let’s do a comparison, and let us do it based on value.