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Pogre
Audioholic Slumlord
I listen to music in 2.2 (basically 2.1, I listen with my subs and mains together). Movies and TV in 5.2. Lately have been experimenting with music in dolby digital and the jury's out on that one. Some stuff is kinda cool but I still prefer 2.1. I flip between Audyssey and Pure/Direct every once in a while with music just to remind myself that I do indeed prefer Audyssey with DEQ on.
Pogre
Audioholic Slumlord
I do, and I just sent an email to ask. I think you might be right also. I've been thinking about sending LFE to, and/or eq'ing just the bass sections of my towers. Gene suggested it to me once. Is that where you're going?
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PENG
Audioholic Slumlord
I think I would want to use REW to plot:
- Subs only.
- Front Ultras L+R only.
- Front Ultras L+R + Subs.
Do the same for crossover settings 40, 60, 80 and 90 Hz. Then you can see how they interact even with the help of XT32, and go from there. You have options for sure. This is a time consuming hobby, more so their fishing.
Pogre
Audioholic Slumlord
Talk about SVS Customer service! I sent a question 10 minutes ago, on a Sunday and got a reply already!
Hi Jason -
Yes, they are grouped as you note below with respect to the input terminals.
Thanks and if you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
I asked if both of the midrange drivers were grouped with the tweeter and the bass drivers are grouped together by themselves. I replied and asked what he thought about the bass drivers capabilities with a LFE signal from the LFE preout of an avr.
Hi Jason -
Yes, they are grouped as you note below with respect to the input terminals.
Thanks and if you have any other questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
I asked if both of the midrange drivers were grouped with the tweeter and the bass drivers are grouped together by themselves. I replied and asked what he thought about the bass drivers capabilities with a LFE signal from the LFE preout of an avr.
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Sparkus
Junior Audioholic
I'm curious to hear music with a sub woofer. This one is too small. Looking forward to movies with one.
Pogre
Audioholic Slumlord
I much prefer music with my subs. Not for heavy bass, but to add weight to the whole spectrum. Sonically my subs do not stand out from the rest of my speakers until you turn them off by setting the towers to large or switch to pure/direct (both of which bypass the subwoofers). When you do that it's very clear something is missing.
That's the trick. I don't like bass to be in my face and pounding to everything I listen to. Well, unless it's supposed to! Some of the music I listen to can and does go there, but a lot of it doesn't.
Pogre
Audioholic Slumlord
Been there, done that...
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Sparkus
Junior Audioholic
Which is what I always thought about 2.1. I'm curious in whether it offsets the RTi's nature, which regardless...
Because you were the catalyst for subs, can you go too large with a sub? i.e. room size.
Because you were the catalyst for subs, can you go too large with a sub? i.e. room size.
Pogre
Audioholic Slumlord
If anything it'll let their nature shine through more. The idea is that a subwoofer can handle the lowest frequencies much better than most tower speakers. The sub takes over those lower frequencies and frees your towers up to focus on midrange and high frequencies, taking less power and arguably adding more headroom and clarity. Think about it, your main speakers no longer have to play the more difficult bass frequencies which require more movement and more power. A good, clean, properly integrated subwoofer will unobtrusively take over the bass, do it better and let the main speakers really sing.
At least that's how I look at it now. It doesn't come overnight and takes some tinkering. Hell, once it cools off I'm still gonna be tinkering and trying to improve on what I have. For me that's part of the fun. I love to tinker.
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Sparkus
Junior Audioholic
Oh, you had me convinced originally. I just got frustrated...needed to wait for credit on the sub, take a breath...worry about basics. Now, I want to pull the trigger. Just want to be sure I don't make a mistake. So the question stands, does room size factor in or can you use the volume on the sub to compensate?
Sub is all directional right? So if I get an oversized, it shouldn't matter.
Sub is all directional right? So if I get an oversized, it shouldn't matter.
Pogre
Audioholic Slumlord
Room size is a factor, yes. I would definitely lean toward oversized than under. You can integrate a big sub as easily as a small one. How oversized are you thinking? I think it would be better to have 2 smaller ones than one big one. I alway suggest HSU because they're a little more bang for your buck. Monoprice has some nice subs now too that have been reviewing very well. Money no factor tho, I'd have a pair of SVS PB16 Ultras sitting in my living room right now. Money being a big factor for me I went with 2 VTF-3 MK5s from Hsu (price in that link is for 2 of them) for less than the price one PB16...
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PENG
Audioholic Slumlord
I thought there was only one mid range. They may call it one and a half with the tapering XO for one of the bass. So I think you asked a good question, wisely.
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Pogre
Audioholic Slumlord
Thank you. Yes, there are 2 midrange drivers. SVS has them listed as '3.5 way' speakers.
ryanosaur
Audioholic Overlord
@Sparkus... Pogre is pretty much on the money with your conversation. Unless you have true Full Range speakers (most of us don't... my mains are close, but still not quite there) you will benefit greatly from having subs. I use my towers with subs and am very happy with them for Music. I was very happy without the subs too, but I do indulge in some Electronica and Pipe Organ, both of which can easily push my Speakers beyond their limits. When I adjusted my crossover to that point where the speaker is comfortably transitioning to the sub, I was rewarded with greater clarity in my Mids, and better Bass. Not that my tower was lacking, per se, but with the added extension and focus of the Sub, my towers were freed from having to reach for that extra little bit.
Moreover, by having two matching subs, larger than my room requires, I also benefit from not having to push any part of my system too hard. My Subs are very capable, yet I'm only using about 1/4 - 1/3rd of their capability! Even at louder SPL in my room, I'm never pushing these to anything close to a distortion point, unless it is in LFE programming that might go lower than they're capable of effectively reproducing (15Hz, in my case).
One other comment that really resonates with me is that, for most music, the subs don't have to be cranking. I've actually backed my subs off of what Audyssey sets. For most music, the Subs are too hot. Upright Bass in a small Jazz Combo shouldn't be vibrating the structure!
Definitely, Subs are an integral part of the overall system. Employed with care, they are present, but not in your face unless you choose. They do take some work, but learning about acoustics and how all this stuff works together in an integral system is a worthwhile pursuit. The sooner you embrace that, the better your system will become now... And when it comes time for you to choose the upgrade path, you'll be placed even further ahead!
Cheers!
Moreover, by having two matching subs, larger than my room requires, I also benefit from not having to push any part of my system too hard. My Subs are very capable, yet I'm only using about 1/4 - 1/3rd of their capability! Even at louder SPL in my room, I'm never pushing these to anything close to a distortion point, unless it is in LFE programming that might go lower than they're capable of effectively reproducing (15Hz, in my case).
One other comment that really resonates with me is that, for most music, the subs don't have to be cranking. I've actually backed my subs off of what Audyssey sets. For most music, the Subs are too hot. Upright Bass in a small Jazz Combo shouldn't be vibrating the structure!
Definitely, Subs are an integral part of the overall system. Employed with care, they are present, but not in your face unless you choose. They do take some work, but learning about acoustics and how all this stuff works together in an integral system is a worthwhile pursuit. The sooner you embrace that, the better your system will become now... And when it comes time for you to choose the upgrade path, you'll be placed even further ahead!
Cheers!
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lovinthehd
Audioholic Jedi
How do you figure you are "only using about 1/4 - 1/3rd of their capability"?@Sparkus... Pogre is pretty much on the money with your conversation. Unless you have true Full Range speakers (most of us don't... my mains are close, but still not quite there) you will benefit greatly from having subs. I use my towers with subs and am very happy with them for Music. I was very happy without the subs too, but I do indulge in some Electronica and Pipe Organ, both of which can easily push my Speakers beyond their limits. When I adjusted my crossover to that point where the speaker is comfortably transitioning to the sub, I was rewarded with greater clarity in my Mids, and better Bass. Not that my tower was lacking, per se, but with the added extension and focus of the Sub, my towers were freed from having to reach for that extra little bit.
Moreover, by having two matching subs, larger than my room requires, I also benefit from not having to push any part of my system too hard. My Subs are very capable, yet I'm only using about 1/4 - 1/3rd of their capability! Even at louder SPL in my room, I'm never pushing these to anything close to a distortion point, unless it is in LFE programming that might go lower than they're capable of effectively reproducing (15Hz, in my case).
One other comment that really resonates with me is that, for most music, the subs don't have to be cranking. I've actually backed my subs off of what Audyssey sets. For most music, the Subs are too hot. Upright Bass in a small Jazz Combo shouldn't be vibrating the structure!
Definitely, Subs are an integral part of the overall system. Employed with care, they are present, but not in your face unless you choose. They do take some work, but learning about acoustics and how all this stuff works together in an integral system is a worthwhile pursuit. The sooner you embrace that, the better your system will become now... And when it comes time for you to choose the upgrade path, you'll be placed even further ahead!
Cheers!
lovinthehd
Audioholic Jedi
I'm not a big fan of music vs HT for speakers or subs, that's another sort of audio urban myth IME. Good speakers/subs are good speakers/subs. Still, they need to be setup properly in a given room. Your room and setup are a huge influence. Side thought....is it possible you repositioned speakers a bit while changing wire? That conceivably could alter listening in the same exact listening position....and the same exact listening position is difficult in itself somewhat (like if you move your head a bit, it can change the apparent sound if nothing else changed; similarly if you move speakers but do use the same listening position it might be that movement that causes some different perception).To be honest, I think I could put all the watts these could take and they probably wouldn't sound that much better for music. Fine for HT multi channel...but they don't seem to be able to stand alone. They ain't music speakers. I think you can add to the system to make them sound different but not better. Keep in mind...I have no idea what I'm doing
Peng found some conversations on Polk about the same signal thing, which I consider more an advancement over some of the posting there where they insist you get significant differences in power by doing so (like doubling, which does not happen at all).
ryanosaur
Audioholic Overlord
I'm being a little hyperbolic with this statement, dear Lovin', but my gain is set between 1/4 and 1/3... My point being that there is ample headroom available for some intense dynamics.
lovinthehd
Audioholic Jedi
You're confusing things....that's just a gain setting, you still have the headroom in the amp not doing this.I'm being a little hyperbolic with this statement, dear Lovin', but my gain is set between 1/4 and 1/3... My point being that there is ample headroom available for some intense dynamics.
Pogre
Audioholic Slumlord
Look what I found.
Those measurements are what convinced me to use 120 hz crossover. It's an audible difference too.
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