Bi-wire/bi-amp

[Pogre]

Well, I got bored after dusting and shining up my speakers with some detailer so I busted out the extra set of cables and bi amped my speakers again. There's no pop now when I power them up, which is great but I have no idea what I could possibly have done different last time that would've made them pop. *shrug* Aside from that I can't tell any difference from the way I had them, but now I'm using a couple more channels on the ol' Monolith so I'm getting some psychological satisfaction out of that!

I wonder how @Sparkus is making out with operation subwoofer..?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

One thing that got me was at first I didn't think the new subs were as loud as the old ones and wanted to turn them up more to compensate. I was so used to the old subs' distorted sound that I thought something was missing. It took me a little listening to realize what was missing - the distortion.They didn't seem as loud because the distortion was gone. The bass was still there but a lot more subtle. Not boomy and in your face, but more of a supporting role like it's supposed to be. It was an eye opener and I've been pushing quality subwoofage ever since, lol.

Yep. Totally agree. It was weird for me too. Like all of a sudden I could hear the rest of my speakers. Quality subwoofage is not to be dismissed.

 

[Alex2507]

I'm using a couple more channels on the ol' Monolith

... as it should be.

I can't tell any difference

Listen harder ...

 

[KEW]

One thing that got me was at first I didn't think the new subs were as loud as the old ones and wanted to turn them up more to compensate. I was so used to the old subs' distorted sound that I thought something was missing. It took me a little listening to realize what was missing - the distortion.They didn't seem as loud because the distortion was gone. The bass was still there but a lot more subtle. Not boomy and in your face, but more of a supporting role like it's supposed to be. It was an eye opener and I've been pushing quality subwoofage ever since, lol.

I forget, what were your old subwoofers?

 

[Pogre]

I forget, what were your old subwoofers?

I had a pair of Klipsch RPW 10s and thought I was more than set for bass. I upgraded to a pair of SB1000s next, then finally the VTF-3 MK5s. The SB1000s were my first taste of really good, clean bass but there wasn't enough of it. Fortunately I broke even with the Klipsch subs and actually made a profit on the SVS subs. I only paid $250 for one of them.

 

[Hi-Fi-Guy]

Hi guys,

I have an old Denon AVR-X2000 (2x95W 2ch 8ohm) and Cambridge Audio S70 speakers (8ohm). Only those are connected to the AVR. Both have possibility for bi-amping.

Would you do it if you're in my place? Would it affect the sound, lower the load on the amps, or there won't be any difference?

I'm not sure if I should bother?

Tnx

 

[lovinthehd]

Bi-amping vs Bi-wiring: What's the Difference and is it Audible?

There are various ways to connect loudspeakers. Bi-amping vs bi-wiring, active vs passive bi-ampling; what kind of effect can it have on your audio system and is it audible? Read on.

www.audioholics.com

ps in most circumstances I wouldn't bother....

 

[Hi-Fi-Guy]

Bi-amping vs Bi-wiring: What's the Difference and is it Audible?

There are various ways to connect loudspeakers. Bi-amping vs bi-wiring, active vs passive bi-ampling; what kind of effect can it have on your audio system and is it audible? Read on.

www.audioholics.com

ps in most circumstances I wouldn't bother....

Thanks. Did you do that with your Denon?

I read the article and watched the video (each and every from this channel), but I was hoping for some personal user experiences.

Maybe with the same or similar AVR and/or speakers.

These speakers are 90dB/m and since they are alone on my avr it shouldn't run out of power to drive them well. But if I'd get more kick with bi-amping why not try. It's a bummer to have many free channels.

 

[ryanosaur]

There really isn’t a reason not to, other than it doesn’t really do anything much for you. I was supremely motivated to do it myself, but when I got to the end of a lot of research, I understood that. I chose to not Buy-Amp and saved myself near $1k in amplification.
My rig performs just fine. I do not feel like I’ve left something on the table.

Now, the bugaboo... if you use your AVR, you aren’t getting the true benefits (not that there actually are any) of Bi-Amping because you are just using the single Amp stage of your AVR, which will actually rob a little potential output from each channels maximum output in stereo usage only.
The AVR ‘trick’ isn’t really anything more than a marketing ploy, I’m afraid.

True active bi-amping can be beneficial, but is much more expensive and complicated to do properly as it would involve bypassing the XO network of the speaker, adding them back externally for each driver, and adding external amplification for each driver. See this link for more details:

Stereo 3/4way Xover

miniDSP is a leading manufacturer of Digital Audio Signal Processors for the HomeTheater, Hifi, headphone and Automotive market. Join our large community of Audiophiles, Engineers and DIYers using our innovative products.

www.minidsp.com

Now. As I said before, you are welcome to do it. Just make certain you set it all up properly, safely. If you do not remove the jumper on your speakers, for example, you could easily kill you gear.

Cheers.

 

[Hi-Fi-Guy]

Now I'm sad that I bought additional cables and bananas. I figured it will not be worst so I might give it a try.
Thanks for the lenghty explanation.

 

[Hi-Fi-Guy]

One more: this might not make any sense, but if I bi-amp these speakers, is the possibility to fry the tweeters lower, since they are powered by separate amp channels?

 

[Pogre]

One more: this might not make any sense, but if I bi-amp these speakers, is the possibility to fry the tweeters lower, since they are powered by separate amp channels?

No. Responsible volume control is the best way to prevent tweeter frying.

Look at the first post at the top of this page to read my impressions. I still have mine bi amped too, btw. I have legit 200 wpc to play with and I can't say I noticed any big differences, if any at all. Audio memory is very fleeting and unreliable ime and any "improvements" I *think* I heard... well, if you have to work to convince yourself then it's unlikely there was any change at all. Expectation bias can really do a number on coloring what your brain thinks you're hearing.

If you already bought the wire and connectors there's no harm in doing it if you want to experiment and see for yourself. Well, no harm if you remember to remove the jumpers between the binding posts on your speakers. DO NOT forget that part!

Bear in mind too that although your receiver has separate amp channels they still all share power from the same source. That's why bi amping with AVRs are generally not recommended. There's really nothing to gain. Done correctly there's no real harm either tho.

 

[Hi-Fi-Guy]

I see. You can say I don't have EE degree huh I'm a natural science guy...with a condition called audiophilia.

But I have you guys, at least you are polite to people with no "audio background" asking stupid questions, which I cannot say for some other forums, and I'm on many (not that I ask stupid questions everywhere lol). I didn't see that people offend each other here. Maybe it's because I didn't read the forum enough

My wife is painting the speaker cabinets nowadays, I'll connect when she lets me...oh...this didn't came out well..

 

[Pogre]

I see. You can say I don't have EE degree huh I'm a natural science guy...with a condition called audiophilia.

But I have you guys, at least you are polite to people with no "audio background" asking stupid questions, which I cannot say for some other forums, and I'm on many (not that I ask stupid questions everywhere lol). I didn't see that people offend each other here. Maybe it's because I didn't read the forum enough

My wife is painting the speaker cabinets nowadays, I'll connect when she lets me...oh...this didn't came out well..

Hey, I'm no EE either! I'm just another average shmuck who loves music and audio gear that can reproduce it faithfully, cleanly and occasionally loud! You don't need any special credentials to appreciate and learn about this hobby outside of an appreciation for great sound. I say if you're here asking questions you're already in the club, you audiophile!

When I first really got serious about dialing my system in and finding the gear I wanted I didn't know anything about anything if it didn't relate to car audio, which is a whole 'nother ball of wax. I've learned what I know just through participating here and asking questions. This is a pretty good place for that. Most of us don't bite, but if you dig a little you can find some folks do get rubbed the wrong way from time to time, but overall we just want to help folks enjoy this hobby in the same ways we do.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks. Did you do that with your Denon?

I read the article and watched the video (each and every from this channel), but I was hoping for some personal user experiences.

Maybe with the same or similar AVR and/or speakers.

These speakers are 90dB/m and since they are alone on my avr it shouldn't run out of power to drive them well. But if I'd get more kick with bi-amping why not try. It's a bummer to have many free channels.

Some of my speakers don't even have the extra terminals to do it with, but no, I don't passive bi-amp, not worth the wire/bother IMO and don't think there's going to be any additional "kick". If you truly need more power a different avr/amp may be in order (your model doesn't have pre-outs so you can't just add an external amp). If you already bought the wire, use it and see for yourself if it makes a difference or not....altho expectation bias can go a long ways

 

[Hi-Fi-Guy]

I'll listen to these S70s for a while to get used to them and then I'll try bi-amping and see what my ears say.

Thanks for your responses.

 

[Verdinut]

I'll listen to these S70s for a while to get used to them and then I'll try bi-amping and see what my ears say.

Thanks for your responses.

If you don't use an electronic crossover to drive two separate amps, you won't be actively bi-amping your speakers. It will just be passive bi-amping and there's no advantage in doing so unless you need additional headroom for the woofer.

 

[Hi-Fi-Guy]

If you don't use an electronic crossover to drive two separate amps, you won't be actively bi-amping your speakers. It will just be passive bi-amping and there's no advantage in doing so unless you need additional headroom for the woofer.

Well it's always good to have a headroom, right?

 

[Hi-Fi-Guy]

One more dummy question. On a binding post, are lower ones universally for LF and upper ones for HF? Some speakers do have this labeled with HF and LF.

This is why I'm asking. In my Denons manual there is a bi-amping scheme and upper binding posts are presented to be connected with FR/LR terminals for LF and lower to be connected with SBR/SBR For HF.

To me it's reversed logic

I appreciate your opinions on the bi-amping subject, I'll just try it for the sake of indulgence

 

[lovinthehd]

One more dummy question. On a binding post, are lower ones universally for LF and upper ones for HF? Some speakers do have this labeled with HF and LF.

This is why I'm asking. In my Denons manual there is a bi-amping scheme and upper binding posts are presented to be connected with FR/LR terminals for LF and lower to be connected with SBR/SBR For HF.

To me it's reversed logic

I appreciate your opinions on the bi-amping subject, I'll just try it for the sake of indulgence

Makes no difference since its the same signal from the avr....but position of the bi wire/biamp terminals usually goes with driver orientation....