Bi-Amping the Denon 3805

[Jason Coleman]

Hmmm...I suppose the title of "Average Joe" isn't too bad.

The bi-amp is a no-brainer for me while I finish upgrading my speakers, get a new sub, and probably a new TV (if I can manage to talk the wife into it!).

Jason

 

[gene]

I suppose the title of "Average Joe" isn't too bad.

Ok Ok, how about the Average Jason

 

[Unregistered]

What about the other 2 channels?

Quick question.

Let's say I bi-amped the 3805, then I cannot drive my 2 back surrounds until I get a 2 channel amplifier and connect it to 3805, right?

I have the center and fronts that can be bi-amped.

Can anybody recommend what's the best way to do that?

I can bi-amp my fronts in 3805 and then buy 4 channel amp to drive center/surrounds or I can keep 5 channels and bi-amp center in 3805 and then bi-amp fronts with a separate amp.

What is the best way to do that?

thanks for all suggestions.

P.S. I have paradigm reference speakers and thinking about getting an Anthem amp.

 

[djoxygen]

If you're working with a 7.1 system, then you are correct. The Bi-amping trick is to utilize the 2 extra amp channels in a 5.1 setup.

If you're getting an external 4ch amp, I'd recommend using that to drive the mains and use the amp channels in the 3805 for surrounds.

 

[Unregistered]

Stupid question why can't we use all speaker outputs to drive all 7 channels

Hello, everybody.
A novice here:

I looked on the back of the receiver, and there are:

4 posts for mains (to connect 2 fronts) and 4 for Zone 2, so we use these to bi-amp fronts.

There are 2 posts for center. (we drive center)

There are additional 8 posts for surrounds. (Why can't we use these to drive 4 surround speakers?)

Thanks for helping a layman.

P.S. If that doesn't work...Do we just use 2 RCA connectors for "Surround Back/Multizone" to connect to a 2 channel amplifier and connect 2 surrounds to that stereo amplifier?

P.P.S. Can we use any amplifier to bi-amp fronts? If I buy a 4 channel amplifier, there is only 2 RCA outputs for fronts and 4 RCA outputs on the amplifier, do I need an external crossover or there is a cable I can buy that has 1 RCA on one end and 2 RCAs on the other end?

All I am trying to do is to get 7.1 channels going at a reasonable price Adding a good 4 channel amp w/ external crossover seems a little expensive as oppose to buying a good stereo amp for surrounds.

Thanks a bunch!

I hope replies to this post help a lot of people with my type of question.

 

[Jack]

Sorry another question about biamping the 3805. I was able to follow the instructions given here except when it came to setting the multizone2 to 2db.

When I set the Power Amp Assign to zone 2, the choice of setting the volume level for zone 2 is not available. The instruction manual says that when you set the Power Amp Assign to zone 2 the volume for zone 2 is adjusted automatically.

So did I miss something?

And why is it recommended that one set the volume on zone 2 to 2 db anyway? I'm using the biamp setup without having made that volume adjustment. What is the problem with that?

Thanks.

 

[nova]

Jack, you have to use the zone2 volume level on the remote ( the default is like -75 ) otherwise you will not get any sound from the part of your speaker that you bi-amped.

+2 db is recommended because most people have found that is the level it takes for the zone2 amp to get the same volume level as the mains,... your setup could be different, maybe +4, or you may prefer the sound with zone2 level set at -1. You should try it and find out.

Just remember you do not set the zone2 volume level in the set-up menu, press the zone2 button on your remote and then adj with the volume buttons.

 

[Jack]

Jack, you have to use the zone2 volume level on the remote ( the default is like -75 ) otherwise you will not get any sound from the part of your speaker that you bi-amped.

+2 db is recommended because most people have found that is the level it takes for the zone2 amp to get the same volume level as the mains,... your setup could be different, maybe +4, or you may prefer the sound with zone2 level set at -1. You should try it and find out.

Just remember you do not set the zone2 volume level in the set-up menu, press the zone2 button on your remote and then adj with the volume buttons.

Thanks for that!

 

[djoxygen]

There are additional 8 posts for surrounds. (Why can't we use these to drive 4 surround speakers?)

Regardless of the number of binding posts, the amp in the 3805 has 7 channels. Biamping your mains uses 4 of those amp channels, so you only have 3 left for surrounds.

The manual and back panel labelling of Surround A and B isn't exactly clear, but pg. 15 of the manual leads me to believe that those channels are driven from the same amp channels, so you're not getting something for nothing (i.e. 9 channels for the price of 7). If my reading is correct, whatever you plug into Surround B will play back the same material as Surround A, and nothing you do in the setup menus will change that.

------

OK, pg 22 tells me that you can't (or at least shouldn't) drive Surr A and Surr B at the same time. They intend for you to probably use one for music and one for movies.

 

[Unregistered]

Bi-Amp of 3805 still does not work????

I followed all of the instructions on this web site to Bi-Amp the 3805 and after going over it several times it still does not work properly. All I get is a faint sound coming from the speakers. RCA cables are connected from front pre-outs to the cd input. Zone2 is set to cd. Amp Assign is set to "Zone2". Zone2 volume is set to 2db. Jumper cables were removed and bass section was connected to the multizone speaker connections. The highs were connected to the front speaker connections. Is there anything missing here? I printed out the instructions and followed them correctly and only a little bit of the high's come out of the speakers. Please help...

 

[UncleAlpo]

Zone 2 vs. Zone 3?

Is there a reason the revamped instructions use Zone 2? The original bi-amping instructions suggested using Zone 3: "The reason for choosing Zone 3 rather than Zone 2 is simply to still permit the use of a volume controlled zone 2 for genuine multi zone use, so long as an additional stereo amplifier is used. Additionally, because of details on the remote, it makes it slightly more difficult to accidentally alter some of the settings." I'm contemplating this bi-amp setup, and would hate to pop my speakers as suggested by barend.

 

[Duffinator]

Is there a reason the revamped instructions use Zone 2? The original bi-amping instructions suggested using Zone 3: "The reason for choosing Zone 3 rather than Zone 2 is simply to still permit the use of a volume controlled zone 2 for genuine multi zone use, so long as an additional stereo amplifier is used. Additionally, because of details on the remote, it makes it slightly more difficult to accidentally alter some of the settings." I'm contemplating this bi-amp setup, and would hate to pop my speakers as suggested by barend.

In the updated instructions zone 2 is for the multiroom and 3 for bi-amping.

See:
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/Denon-AVR3805_review04.php

Your quote above is exactly why. I'm finally going to do this in the next couple of weeks and I'll post my results.

 

[Jason Coleman]

I'm finally going to do this in the next couple of weeks and I'll post my results.

Duff-
I think you'll be pretty pleased. I had my Paradigm Studio 100's bi-amped for about 3 months and really loved the sound. I've since had to reallocate the Zone 2 for kitchen speakers, so I've gone back to the traditional wiring. I'm eyeing an Anthem MCA-20 (225 wpc) for the Studios because they really love the extra juice that the 3805 just can't deliver on its own w/o bi-amping. I'll be curious to hear your results, so be sure to post.

Good Luck!

Jason

 

[Duffinator]

Duff-
I think you'll be pretty pleased. I had my Paradigm Studio 100's bi-amped for about 3 months and really loved the sound. I've since had to reallocate the Zone 2 for kitchen speakers, so I've gone back to the traditional wiring. I'm eyeing an Anthem MCA-20 (225 wpc) for the Studios because they really love the extra juice that the 3805 just can't deliver on its own w/o bi-amping. I'll be curious to hear your results, so be sure to post.

Good Luck!

Jason

It will be interesting to see if there is much of a difference. I have Mirage 595is speakers and they are of bipolar design. According to Mirage the two inputs go to the front and back and not high and low. My manual states to connect the speaker wires as follows: From amp 1 connect the positive to input A and negative to input B. From amp 2 connect the positive to input B and negative to input A. So your are criss-crossing the wires.

Has anyone ever heard of this before?? I've had this confirmed from Mirage customer service but this does not sound correct to me. See attachment.

 

[Duffinator]

Bump

My manual states to connect the speaker wires as follows: From amp 1 connect the positive to input A and negative to input B. From amp 2 connect the positive to input B and negative to input A. So your are criss-crossing the wires.

Has anyone ever heard of this before?? I've had this confirmed from Mirage customer service but this does not sound correct to me. See attachment.

Please see the attachment below. Has anyone ever seen this type of connection before? I'm planning on doing the bi-amp connection this weekend and would appreciate any comments.

Thanks in advance, Rick

 

[Jason Coleman]

Duff-

If Mirage says that's how to bi-amp their speakers, I'd go ahead and give it a try. You are isolating the left and right channels, so I wouldn't be concerned about cross-talk or feedback. Give it a shot and let us know how it goes.

Good Luck!

Jason

 

[threewheel42]

bi amping etc

as usual, YMMV, however, biamping differences are fairly subtle over standard hookups.

My IL40 Infinitys in my HT setup have the connections to run standard, biwire or biamping (the manual shows examples of all three hookups).

I am biamping my Maggie MGIIIa speakers with twin Bryston 3Bs in my music stereo system (with a crossover, etc)...but the difference was subtle over running the system with one Bryston 3B.

Based on that experience...I see no need to biamp the HT system. I might biwire...just because it only takes a little extra wire...so what the heck.

 

[Jason Coleman]

Actually, I noticed a very significant improvement when bi-amping my Paradigm Studio 100s with my 3805. They really opened up, both in the upper and lower ends. I actually had to back off my bass and treble controls. The only reason I went back to the traditional wiring was to use the Zone 2 section for my kitchen speakers.

Jason

 

[threewheel42]

as I said YMMV...biamping must be very speaker dependent on its effects. There was a noticable, but subtle effect on the Maggies. It will be interesting to see if biwiring the IL40s in the HT from the Yamaha 2500 has a noticeable effect.

 

[Duffinator]

Well I finally finished the bi-amp project on my 3805. I'm a little disappointed in the results but I'm still going to do some more listening and adjusting. I have Mirage 595is speakers that are 6 ohm. These speakers are bipolar in design with two 3/4" titanium tweeters and two 5 1/4" drivers.

My initial impressions are that it's slightly louder with a touch more bass. That's pretty much it. I've listened to several CD's and DD/DTS discs plus movie sound tracks. Maybe with speakers that are difficult to drive or power hungry I would notice more of a difference. Like several other's who have tried this I have a slight hum coming from the speakers that is not audible from more than two feet away.

The instructions posted on Audioholics were excellent. I followed the 9 steps and was rocking in just a few minutes. I'll post again if I make any hugh discovery.