Best Way To Power My 4ohm Stereo Speakers

[Verdinut]

I notice that even playing at around 70-75 dB, you begin to ear some sort of distortion which may be caused by the AVR amplifiers getting short of current. As mentioned above that if there's an impedance switch, it is set to 8 ohms.
Also, I suggest that you try raising the crossover point on the sub to 100 Hz. That would reduce demands from both the AVR and the bookshelves.

From the Sound & Vision Review:
Impedance reaches a minimum of 4.05 ohms at 132 Hz and a phase angle of –22.69 degrees at 73 Hz.

So those Elac satellite speakers are not that hard to drive as their impedance does not dip below 4 ohms. That should not be hard to drive at reasonable sound levels if you set the impedance for the speakers at 8 ohms. I suspect that you set the impedance to 4 ohms and that's what is causing the problem.

If you have not done so, I recommend that you use cooling fans on top of the X3500 to prolong its life. AC Infinity fans are inexpensive at Amazon.

 

[lovinthehd]

Looks from this bench test of the similar 3400 you should be able to supply all the recommended power per Elac for those speakers, it could be an spl limitation of the speakers, too. A more powerful amp just for those speakers isn't the way I'd go I'd rather get higher sensitivity speakers with more capability. If you must try an external amp something like a Crown XLS model are capable of 2 ohm loads and have more power. Keep in mind it takes a doubling of amp power to gain merely 3dB spl. You might play around with an spl calculator too.

 

[motohead1]

Thank you all for the responses and ideas. I will look to implement some of the suggestions that were recommended. I do understand that at 105 watts that my denon puts out it translates to roughly ~101ish db's with my speakers 85db 4ohm sensitivity. Which is plenty loud. I will keep tweaking things to find the right sound.

 

[Verdinut]

These are the specs for the Elac Uni-Fi UB5 speakers:

Specifications

Speaker type: 3-way, bass reflex
Tweeter: 1 x 1-inch soft dome, concentrically mounted
Midrange: 1 x 4-inch aluminum cone
Woofer: 1 x 5.25-inch aluminum cone
Crossover frequency: 270 / 2,700 Hz
Frequency response: 46 to 25,000 Hz
Sensitivity: 85 dB at 2.83 v/1m
Recommended amplifier power: 40 to 140 wpc
Peak power handling: 140 wpc
Nominal impedance: 4 Ω; minimum 3.4 Ω
Binding posts: 5-way custom
Magnetic shielding: No
Cabinet finishes: Black brushed vinyl
Accessories included: Magnetic fabric grille
Height: 12.75 in / 324 mm
Width: 7.87 in / 200 mm
Depth: 10.75 in / 273 mm

According to the manufacturer, your speakers can handle a peak power of 140 watts for a fraction of one second before getting damaged. In my opinion, the problem you are experiencing would be caused by with the impedance setting on your receiver.

 

[motohead1]

I just checked and I'm running the denon at 8ohms. I'm thinking it must be my ears or at the very least the 4 inches between my ears that is the problem. I ran the Audessey when I first got it. Haven't messed with any settings other than adding a couple db's for the sub since it had it at -7.0db, I didn't think that sounded good so I changed it to -4.0db. I also have well over 100hours of break in on both the amp and speakers. To clarify at around 74ish dbs (according to a sound app on my phone) at roughly 9-10feet I find that the highs are very fatiguing. I assumed this was due to the THD of the amp which is why I asked about an external. It's possible this isn't a good pairing of components. Unfortunately there are no more hifi stores around anymore other than Best Buy. Again thank you for helping me. I'll see if I can't get my hands on other speakers to demo.

 

[lovinthehd]

I just checked and I'm running the denon at 8ohms. I'm thinking it must be my ears or at the very least the 4 inches between my ears that is the problem. I ran the Audessey when I first got it. Haven't messed with any settings other than adding a couple db's for the sub since it had it at -7.0db, I didn't think that sounded good so I changed it to -4.0db. I also have well over 100hours of break in on both the amp and speakers. To clarify at around 74ish dbs (according to a sound app on my phone) at roughly 9-10feet I find that the highs are very fatiguing. I assumed this was due to the THD of the amp which is why I asked about an external. It's possible this isn't a good pairing of components. Unfortunately there are no more hifi stores around anymore other than Best Buy. Again thank you for helping me. I'll see if I can't get my hands on other speakers to demo.

Maybe you and the speakers themselves aren't the best match....the amp has very low thd, tho. Lower than the speakers by a good bit. Did you turn off Dynamic Volume after running Audyssey? Try using DynamicEQ setting with various RLO settings (reference level offset) ? Why did you choose the Elacs to begin with?

ps You might also consider the room as part of the system. Is it reflective particularly?

 

[M Code]

The mentioned Elac loudspeakers, though being 4 Ohms but are also low sensitivity so to drive these @ higher levels the amplifier must have significant current capability.. The mentioned Denon AVR may suffice in a smaller room, but if the room is larger and high SPL levels are expected U should consider adding an external power amplifier. I like/appreciate the Elac loudspeakers but they require higher power in order to enjoy to deliver the fullest, quality sonics...

Just my $0.02... ..

 

[motohead1]

In your opinion what should I be looking for in an external amp wattage-wise? I mean if my Denon does 105w into 8ohms and I will guess that it probably does around 200w into 4ohms (just a guess as denon doesn't state 4ohm specs), wouldn't I need a 400wpc amp just to get 3 more dbs? Or does it have to do with an amp's native ability to drive 4ohm speakers?

The mentioned Elac loudspeakers, though being 4 Ohms but are also low sensitivity so to drive these @ higher levels the amplifier must have significant current capability.. The mentioned Denon AVR may suffice in a smaller room, but if the room is larger and high SPL levels are expected U should consider adding an external power amplifier. I like/appreciate the Elac loudspeakers but they require higher power in order to enjoy to deliver the fullest, quality sonics...

Just my $0.02... ..

 

[lovinthehd]

In your opinion what should I be looking for in an external amp wattage-wise? I mean if my Denon does 105w into 8ohms and I will guess that it probably does around 200w into 4ohms (just a guess as denon doesn't state 4ohm specs), wouldn't I need a 400wpc amp just to get 3 more dbs? Or does it have to do with an amp's native ability to drive 4ohm speakers?

Look at the bench test I linked above for the 3400....doubling into 4 ohms is done by few amps, tho.

 

[Leemix]

In your opinion what should I be looking for in an external amp wattage-wise? I mean if my Denon does 105w into 8ohms and I will guess that it probably does around 200w into 4ohms (just a guess as denon doesn't state 4ohm specs), wouldn't I need a 400wpc amp just to get 3 more dbs? Or does it have to do with an amp's native ability to drive 4ohm speakers?

AVRs dont really have big sturdy powersupplies which is why tough 4ohm loads can be a problem, but we still dont know how your room is for example so we dont really know what the actual problem is.


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[lovinthehd]

Hard to imagine buying a dedicated amp for $500 pair of speakers...but sometimes ya just gotta scratch that itch. I did try such a couple different ways and found it didn't make a lot of difference but I tend not to use very low impedance speakers either nor try to set spl records.

 

[Verdinut]

If you insist on keeping the Elac speakers and want to proceed with the purchase of an external amplifier that has excellent specs for a decent price, if you don't mind the looks, I would suggest the QSC RMX850a. It's a pro audio power with a true FTC power rating of 280w per channel at 4 ohms which you can get for about $550.

It's a product which is sold almost in every big city in pro audio stores. Amazon, Crutchfield and some other online stores carry it. I would first suggest that you try to rent one from one of the shops carrying it telling them about the use. They should provide you with the proper interconnect cables from RCA to ¼" phone plug. Then if you like the performance. you could purchase one. I'm sure that this amp would do the job without a sweat.
It has a cooling fan, but since I presume that your listening position is at 10 feet from it or so, you shouldn't hear it. The advantage of renting one is obvious so you would know exactly how it performs.

Keep us informed on how you're making out.

 

[lovinthehd]

If you insist on keeping the Elac speakers and want to proceed with the purchase of an external amplifier that has excellent specs for a decent price, if you don't mind the looks, I would suggest the QSC RMX850a. It's a pro audio power with a true FTC power rating of 280w per channel at 4 ohms which you can get for about $550.

It's a product which is sold almost in every big city in pro audio stores. Amazon, Crutchfield and some other online stores carry it. I would first suggest that you try to rent one from one of the shops carrying it telling them about the use. They should provide you with the proper interconnect cables from RCA to ¼" phone plug. Then if you like the performance. you could purchase one. I'm sure that this amp would do the job without a sweat.
It has a cooling fan, but since I presume that your listening position is at 10 feet from it or so, you shouldn't hear it. The advantage of renting one is obvious so would know exactly how it performs.

Keep us informed on how you're making out.

Never even occurred to me a pro audio store might rent pro amps but I suppose that makes sense....that would be worth checking out!

 

[Verdinut]

Never even occurred to me a pro audio store might rent pro amps but I suppose that makes sense....that would be worth checking out!

Yeah, those pro amps are usually available for rent and musicians use them on a regular basis. You can also rent powered speakers and a lot of other pro audio gear for gigs etc,