Best Way to Capture LP to Digital

S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
Thank you, Wilma Cozart! We need people who care to do something like this. And money, of course.

I have a particular example of a striking difference in quality between an LP and it’s CD version. It’s a glorious sounding Beverly Sills on an LP entitled Bellini and Donizetti Heroines. I was auditioning a new CD Player and I’d brought along this record because I wanted to hear it played on the ultra high end equipment my audio guy has. It was just gorgeous. And then he offered to clean it. A big machine with a chemical bath inside costing around $3000 as I recall. Anyway, after the record was cleaned we played it again. The difference was jaw dropping. From gorgeous it went to breathtakingly beautiful. I immediately went searching for a CD, thinking to play it rather than wear out my vinyl treasure. The CD turned out to almost unlistenable, harsh, edgy, shrill, awful. This experience has stayed with me. Fortunately not all transfers to CD turn out like this.
I've got plenty of LP's that I believe sound better than their CD counterparts, with one exception, occasional pops, which undermine the presentation. I can digitize these LP's and my file or CD burnt from that file will sound better than the commercial CD, and the LP too, since in digitization I can remove all the pops.
 

TechHDS

Audioholic General
Yeah, like anything ever made by a human everthing wears out. If it wasn't for the TT and cartridge and the care of, I had back in the day, if I remember right I was tracking less than 1.5 maybe 1.0. The cartridge and diamond stylus cost me more then the TT I have now. Oh sorry about the post above was try to upload the photo front and back cover, for some reason the site wouldn't do, I clicked 3 times..lol.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
Roxio only works on Microsoft Windows, at least according to their site:
http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/easy-lp-to-mp3/standard/requirements.html
It appears that is the case. Too bad for MAC users. I have the software on all of my laptops which are all running Windows 10. I do not use the ADC which is included with the software, instead, I use a Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD for ADC. The driver for this allows for conversion at 24/96 however I have the driver set to deliver at 16/48 which is bit perfect with the Roxio set for 16/48 import.
 
Echolane

Echolane

Audioholic Intern
So say I wanted to digitize that Beverly Sills LP that is so much better than the CD version.
This is what I already have:

1) Bang & Olufsen Beogram 4004 turntable
2) Rega RP40 Anniversary Edition turntable
3) Windows 7 Desktop
4) Asus Xonar Essence Sound card
5) Musical Fidelity A3CR Preamplifier, which has a phono stage (!)
6) Adcom GFA-535II Amplifier
7) Spendor S3/5 Speakers
It's probably a nobrainer to use the Rega, the Beogram is old.
Can the Roxio software do WAV? Or is there another software choice to consider?
What else do I need??
 
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Echolane

Echolane

Audioholic Intern
@Eclolane, what are awaiting fur? Just do it!.
I am pretty sure there is something missing. Like an interface between my computer and my music playing gear, something that captures what I am playing via Rega TT, Amp and Preamp and my computer. Maybe it plugs into the sound card? Dunno what it is, but I'm sure there is one more thingie I need to buy to make this work. A DAC?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I am pretty sure there is something missing. Like an interface between my computer and my music playing gear, something that captures what I am playing via Rega TT, Amp and Preamp and my computer. Maybe it plugs into the sound card? Dunno what it is, but I'm sure there is one more thingie I need to buy to make this work. A DAC?
If you're recording analog to digital that would be an ADC. Check out Audacity software perhaps.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
So say I wanted to digitize that Beverly Sills LP that is so much better than the CD version.
This is what I already have:

1) Bang & Olufsen Beogram 4004 turntable
2) Rega RP40 Anniversary Edition turntable
3) Windows 7 Desktop
4) Asus Xonar Essence Sound card
5) Musical Fidelity A3CR Preamplifier, which has a phono stage (!)
6) Adcom GFA-535II Amplifier
7) Spendor S3/5 Speakers
It's probably a nobrainer to use the Rega, the Beogram is old.
Can the Roxio software do WAV? Or is there another software choice to consider?
What else do I need??
Yes, the Roxio does wav; but, since your sound card has ADC, then, for tonight, before the Roxio software arrives, you might want to just download Audacity software, it's free, and try using it. Now, there is a learning curve with Audacity but there are tutorials on YouTube to get you off to a good start. You will undoubtedly like the Roxio better, since you literally can not forget to do something, which might compromise the recording and it's just more straight forward. Using Audacity, there are so many truly meaningless options, which, if not addressed before recording, can indeed screw things up that you may get frustrated with it. What music player will you be sending files to and what player will you be using to burn CD?
 
Echolane

Echolane

Audioholic Intern
I've discovered ADCs and some come with phono stage, which I already have. Another ADC blurb suggested I'd need a phono amp. Huh? What is a phono amp? Presumably that is my phono stage.....

I have discovered that once you have done this and you know all the bits and pieces and why you need them it seems dead easy, but for a first timer like myself, it still seems quite mysterious. So many new acronyms which have to be looked up, and then you discover complications. And you still don't know which one will make your LPs sound best......
 
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Echolane

Echolane

Audioholic Intern
. What music player will you be sending files to and what player will you be using to burn CD?
I don't want to burn a CD. I'm in the process of becoming a music streamer, so it will go to an SSD. I'm buying a Naim Uniti Core for ripping and storing the result, and a DAC (yet to be decided but have several in mind) to connect it to my living room audio system (Quad ESL-63 speakers, Audiomat Prelude Reference MKII integrated tube amp and etc etc). Will also put my TV system on the network so I can stream to it too. Hopefully my ordered but not yet manufactured OPPO UDP-205 will be able to make that happen. If not hopefully my Arcam SR250 AV receiver will be able to do that job.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I've discovered ADCs and some come with phono stage, which I already have. Another ADC blurb suggested I'd need a phono amp. Huh? What is a phono amp? Primarily that is my phono stage.....

I have discovered that once you have done this and you know all the bits and pieces and why you need them it seems dead easy, but for a first timer like myself, it still seems quite mysterious. So many new acronyms which have to be looked up, and then you discover complications. And you still don't know which one will make your LPs sound best......
Phono amp and phono stage same thing generally, pre-amp section to bring up the relatively weak output of a cartridge and apply the RIAA eq needed to restore proper frequency balance.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
I've discovered ADCs and some come with phono stage, which I already have. Another ADC blurb suggested I'd need a phono amp. Huh? What is a phono amp? Presumably that is my phono stage.....

I have discovered that once you have done this and you know all the bits and pieces and why you need them it seems dead easy, but for a first timer like myself, it still seems quite mysterious. So many new acronyms which have to be looked up, and then you discover complications. And you still don't know which one will make your LPs sound best......
OK, if your preamp, receiver, integrated amp, etc, has a phono labeled input and you are enjoying LP's now with such connection, then just take a record output from the amp and connect to your sound card's RCA line input. That's it, since your sound card has an ADC. Be sure to go to "sound" from computer's control panel to set the ADC output to 16/48 and set the recording software for 16/48 input. Next, download what ever recording software you want. Put a record on and adjust recording level, record, separate tracks, apply pop filter, and export where ever you want the file. Now, this recording will not have it's tracks labeled, unless you use the software to label before exporting. This is where it can be tricky, if you have made a wav recording since wav files are not compatible with metadata. But, if you burn recording to CD, you can rip the CD to your computer's music player in flac or ALAC format, using the music player to label tracks automatically from just your input of Album Title and Album Artist.
 
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Echolane

Echolane

Audioholic Intern
It seems I can do this without spending another dime. Good news! I will get busy and try that.

Meanwhile, I can get a little picky. For example, haven't I read somewhere that sound cards aren't usually good enough to make quality recordings. I can't possibly afford to spend $15k on a laser turntable and whatever else might be needed to go with it, but maybe I should consider a better ADC??
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
It seems I can do this without spending another dime. Good news! I will get busy and try that.

Meanwhile, I can get a little picky. For example, haven't I read somewhere that sound cards aren't usually good enough to make quality recordings. I can't possibly afford to spend $15k on a laser turntable and whatever else might be needed to go with it, but maybe I should consider a better ADC??
I wouldn't worry about it until trying it. If anything it may be due the environment in the computer itself rather than the quality of the sound card. I bought a ART Phono Plus a while back and it's external to the computer, haven't used it much as ripping vinyl is so time consuming. The laser tt's wouldn't likely be any improvement either....their reputation isn't all that good.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
It seems I can do this without spending another dime. Good news! I will get busy and try that.

Meanwhile, I can get a little picky. For example, haven't I read somewhere that sound cards aren't usually good enough to make quality recordings. I can't possibly afford to spend $15k on a laser turntable and whatever else might be needed to go with it, but maybe I should consider a better ADC??
I use an external sound card, Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD. It is ideal for LP digitization. It has both line in and phono in connection possibilities. It can process at up to 24/96. It also provides a usb to S/PDIF and S/PDIF to usb conversion capability. Mine is used to connect computer to home theatre preamp, which allows me to enjoy audio from computer through my home theatre's main stereo speakers.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Ever heard about Audacity? it could do 80% plus of Audition without the cost.
Dont disagree that there are options like Audacity that can do well and have played around with it before.

Ive been using the AA before Adobe purchased it from Cool Edit, since 99. Choices were limited to pro software then and for the work i was doing couldn't afford to use software that might have bugs.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
It seems I can do this without spending another dime. Good news! I will get busy and try that.

Meanwhile, I can get a little picky. For example, haven't I read somewhere that sound cards aren't usually good enough to make quality recordings. I can't possibly afford to spend $15k on a laser turntable and whatever else might be needed to go with it, but maybe I should consider a better ADC??
You have received quite a bit of good advice. There are a number of ways of doing this.

I would note that you have very nice equipment. For a start you have Quad ESL 63s, which puts you right away in the top 0.1% of systems on this forum. In addition you have those nice little classic L3/5 Spendor monitors. Spendor are another speaker manufacturer right at the head of the pack.

You are right to consider your Rega the better turntable. B & O are largely fancy interior design but not much beyond that.

I agree with Sterling that an internal sound card is not the best way to go. You should get that function out of the computer if possible.

I'm not sure why you want that Naim unit. All that can probably be done better with a good computer and external drives for storage. A computer can easily be put on a home network and stream where you want.

Now recording software is all different. I like flexibility.

So I do like to be able to mix with the ADC/DAC. If you want a voice over it is right there. I also like to be able to properly set the gain structure from analog to record and back. This is key to really good quality. This is essential for you, as your system will uncover blemishes most will not. I do like extensive monitoring and especially bit monitoring to make sure I'm not running out of bits. In addition I like to be able to set dynamic range, especially peaks to international AE/EBU specs.

Now I think it is handy to be able to quickly build a cue file. So this means you can set tracks with and without pauses, and set the pause you want. For this you need to work in WAV. Once you have set the tracks and got everything arranged the way you want then you can just drag the tracks into the cue file and save it. To then play that item all you have to do is open the cue file and the wav. will be found. You can then play any tracks in any order you want. Since you interest I suspect is classical, you can easily play just the work you want from an archived recording.

If the recordings are 16/44.1 then you can burn a CD straight from the cue file.

Spending some time researching which software is right for you is very important.

The other thing is, I don't actually archive many LPs. but I do record off the NET and have a lot of live concerts archived. You can make hot links to your favorite sources, like the BBC and MPR streams.

The possibilities are almost endless. A good and well set up computer system is part of the basics of any state of the art audio system now, in my view. It will do all you want and more and avoid add on units and units like that NAIM. I have two computers in my system, one for audio only and the other for AV.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Dont disagree that there are options like Audacity that can do well and have played around with it before.

Ive been using the AA before Adobe purchased it from Cool Edit, since 99. Choices were limited to pro software then and for the work i was doing couldn't afford to use software that might have bugs.
Believe it or not, I've used Cool Edit long time ago. Mainly to remove artifacts from digital recordings. Man, it was a very long time. I hear ya, for work, I'd too use commercial software
 
Echolane

Echolane

Audioholic Intern
Sorry not to respond promptly, especially after getting more super advice, but I’ve got a family illness that cropped up rather suddenly, and it’s going to take a few days.

Love the idea of the external sound card. I have not liked the ASUS Xonar Essence. It’s down again right now, which is part of the reason I haven’t tried to copy an LP, and besides that I’ve never liked the way it sounds. I had a Creative Sound Blaster for years and years. I moved it up every time I made up a new desktop computer, but my latest desktop computer doesn’t have the right sort of slot for it, so I bought the ASUS. Will look into the external Creative Sound Blaster HD mentioned when I can.

Also, want to respond to comments regarding the Naim. I don’t feel quite right about that purchase either, but I need something to provide an interface between my router (where I could optionally locate a network SSD) and my living room stereo system. And I need a ripper. Believe it or not, I’ve never ripped a CD, so all this is new to me and the Naim seemed like a good choice. The router and the stereo system are at completely opposite ends of the house, some 60’ apart. I was planning to run an Ethernet Cable from my router at the desktop under the house and up into the living room and into the Naim. Having said that, I know I’d feel more comfortable if the HDs were nearer the desktop and the router, but that’s just instinct as I don’t really know the pros and cons.

PS to TLS Guy. Thanks for the compliments on my Quads and my Spendors. I’m still in love with my Quads after owning them for many years, and feel so fortunate to have had the luck to see a review about them when I was shopping for speakers. They are perfect for my musical tastes. As for my little Spendors, they can sound so wonderful too, especially on intimate music and especially when I pair them with my other tube amp. I admit to having larger floor standing Spendors in my TV room, FL-6s. My kittens just punched in the woofers and I had to have the cones replaced. Turns out my cats did me a favor because the cones were splitting with age, so thank you kitties, they sound much better now.
Another PS to TLS Guy. Hmmm, I have collected a bit of audio gear over many years, but I’m definitely a baby in comparison to you - very impressively displayed and organized too, and that’s an understatement!
 
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Echolane

Echolane

Audioholic Intern
You have received quite a bit of good advice. There are a number of ways of doing this.

I agree with Sterling that an internal sound card is not the best way to go. You should get that function out of the computer if possible.

I'm not sure why you want that Naim unit. All that can probably be done better with a good computer and external drives for storage. A computer can easily be put on a home network and stream where you want.

Now recording software is all different. I like flexibility.

So I do like to be able to mix with the ADC/DAC. If you want a voice over it is right there. I also like to be able to properly set the gain structure from analog to record and back. This is key to really good quality. This is essential for you, as your system will uncover blemishes most will not. I do like extensive monitoring and especially bit monitoring to make sure I'm not running out of bits. In addition I like to be able to set dynamic range, especially peaks to international AE/EBU specs.


.
Can you recommend a suitable sound card?


I am a bit lost. I am ultra interested in good quality, but I don’t understand what you mean by “like to be able to mix with the ADC/DAC”
 
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