Best sounding sub for $1,000

[croseiv]

Will there be a quiz on all the material covered ? Andrews getting pretty deep. But I appreciate the information.

LOL!!! No kidding. This stuff is getting pretty deep (pun intended).

 

[Nuance AH]

Will there be a quiz on all the material covered ? Andrews getting pretty deep.

I think I'd fail.

 

[gus6464]

So what happens when you take into consideration room modes? Obviously all these measurements are anechoic and most people don't have rooms that act like an anechoic chamber. So since group delay is related to FR, what happens when there's a huge peak at a given frequency? Obviously group delay will be affected by this as well and might go up past the safe threshold if the peak is big enough. So a sub that is already right at the limits of audible and inaudible will go past the threshold. Even though a sub with very low group delay will also have the rise in group delay, since it's normal measurement in a perfect environment is a lot lower than the other it's group delay would probably not pass the limit of inaudible.

 

[mike c]

you need to fix that peak

you can't choose a subwoofer based on your room nodes. you pick subwoofer locations for that.

if these guys didn't measure ground plane (quasi anechoic), we'd have nothing to talk about - i.e. their results would not matter like in your or my room

 

[gus6464]

you need to fix that peak

you can't choose a subwoofer based on your room nodes. you pick subwoofer locations for that.

if these guys didn't measure ground plane (quasi anechoic), we'd have nothing to talk about - i.e. their results would not matter like in your or my room

In a perfect world maybe. But the world is not so perfect so we all have to make due with what we got.

I am not saying that sealed low group delay subs are the end all be all. All I am saying that for systems where accuracy is most important over output it is definitely something that has to be taken into consideration as much as FR and distortion.

 

[avaserfi]

If there are problematic room modes the issue will not be group delay (linear distortion), but the frequency anomalies created. The latter of which would be perceived far more detrimental to 'accuracy' or listener preference even if the group delay was grossly audible (unlikely). Now, if these anomalies are fixed via placement, equalization or another method the group delay problems will be solved as well. Also, bear in mind that it is highly unlikely that room modes will accentuate group delay issues such that they become audible.

This clearly boils down to frequency response issues, not ones of group delay. Furthermore,the perception of 'musicality' is directly related to frequency response (not group delay). The extended bass response and steep roll off often found in ported subwoofers is the cause of the often complained boomy sound (which can be mitigated with equalization). These attributes happen to correlate to group delay because of the physics of how group delay is calculated not because group delay actually relates to percieved speed!!!

If anyone still doubts this statement I strongly suggest rereading this discussion on group delay as it has been addressed multiple times. As such this will be the last time I repeat myself. There is no point in further repetition as it is clear those who have made up their mind based on whatever flawed data presented will not have their mind changed by credibly presented facts.