Best small sub for big room.

[Steve42]

Distortion becomes much more audible the higher you go up in frequency. That subwoofer has a peak of 10% at 120Hz. It then TAPERS down to around 60Hz before it flattens out. That is pathedic for a 15inch servo controlled sub. Look at the DD-15s numbers. No such spike, AND the EQ isn't even on.

I'm not talking abuot THD around 20Hz, I'm talking about THD around 60Hz. And when you cross a sub out at 80Hz, its not a brick wall.

SheepStar

That Klippel test does not even have much info in the bass regions at all if any. So they are testing audible THD in the "higher freq." way above 120Hz and where it is more audbile. Yet still the majority of people can't hear THD until 13-26% that honestly take that test. So you tell me what is the likelyhood that a THD of 10% at 120Hz being noticable especially at near 120dB.

I agree that a cross-over is not a "brick wall". However, most have around a 24dB slope, but again pretty much a moot point given peoples "real world" sensitivity to THD at those frequencies.

I do agree that the DD series obviously does a better job, but real world listening tests (like Craigs blind sessions) and actual THD sensitivty tests like the Klippel prove it to be a moot point IMO.

This thread has gone way off track, so if we don't want this thread to go into the steam vent you might want to start a new thread if you wish to further discuss. I'm sure more people would chime in. Or you can go into that thread I pointed you to where THD is already being discussed and also now in the "Steam Vent".

As far as the OP goes, the DD-15 and DD-18 were never an option anyway because of cost as I have mentioned a few times. So I do not see why we are still discussing them. And niether is the Servo an option for that matter because of it's depth.

Throw in the fact that we now have more correct info on the output capabilty of the Maestro compared to the DD-15: Maestro about 100.6dB at 20Hz with the DD-15 about 92dB, and then at 25Hz, Maestro = about 103dB, and the DD-15 about 96dB. (Just to reiterate I do not own a Meastro or any ACi sub for that matter)
Pretty much enough said.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Sheep]

Where are you getting these Maestro numbers from? Remembe the DD-15 numbers are outdoor, and with no EQ.

Personally, I think your friend should not pay a HT until he is ready to do it right. No point in half assing it.

We can continue the discussion with PM's if you like, but I don't know whats left to talk about.

SheepStar

 

[Steve42]

Where are you getting these Maestro numbers from? Remembe the DD-15 numbers are outdoor, and with no EQ.

Craig Chase did outdoor GP measurements of the Maestro. He also was able to extrapolate comparitive numbers to Ed Mullens GP measurements of the Servo-15v2 and someone who tested both the Maestro and the Servo-15 directly against eachother (see thread below from AVS). I already quoted Craig earlier today which I guess you didn't catch.
Here is his full post on that break down: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7038444&&#post7038444

I am not the OP, so it is not my friend. I was just trying to straighten out some mis-information that was posted by others. If I happen to see some mis-information I hate to see people be mis-lead.

I agree with you about the "half-assing" part of the person who is actually going to buy this setup as far as placing the speakers in the AV cabinet goes. However, that has already been put to "bed" by the OP, just read back a few posts. But the fact also still remains that the Maestro has more output for that huge size room than the DD-15 (in particular from about 16Hz to at least 40Hz). That and the DD-15 cabinet physically may be too deep anyway to fit in a AV cabinet (with it's amp mounted on the back especially). The Custom version of the Maestro on the other hand is only 14" deep with a seperate rack mountable amp. As I mentioned before the OP's friend could buy the SMS-1 and still come in under what it would cost for a new DD-15. All that asside, the fact remains (for the upteenth time) the DD-15 is not an option because of the price. Period.

I have nothing more to say on the subject so PM's are not necessary, if you want other people's opinions on any of this including output comparisons of the DD-15 and Maestro, as well as THD you are welcome to start a thread (or two) as I'm sure others will chime in. I've said my "peace".

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Sheep]

Hm, well I will wait for different numbers on the Maestro.

Oh, my second statement was to the OP, not you.

SheepStar

 

[ltworf13]

AThena Sub

check out the Athean sub. It's down firing format is amazing built for any room size big or small.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10062281&catid=

 

[Steve42]

Hm, well I will wait for different numbers on the Maestro.

Oh, my second statement was to the OP, not you.

SheepStar

That's cool. Craig is not the only one who has measured it. The starter on that thread over on AVS actually had both the Servo-15v2, and the Maestro in his house tested directly in the same room. After he rectified his mistakes in his original measurements, the truth was the Maestro and the Servo-15v2 were nearly identical in output (and he preferred the sound of the Maestro as well). And again being the v2 of the servo-15, it has around three times the output of the v1 as tested on AVtalk above 35Hz.

Anyway thanks for the calm discourse, I'm glad to have conversations with people in a friendly manner.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[df4801]

Well, price really isnt the issue either as my friend would pay what I told him he needed to.
But I want to keep him under $2500 on the sub, and $5K total for the 5.1 system (speakers only) if I can. Unless there is a compelling reason to spend more.

LOL> I just realized that I'm even a tightwad with other people money, not just my own. LOL

Anyway, I am having him look at the ACI maestro, as well as their in-cabinet bookshelves. Its just really hard to push for them though as I have never heard them, and only a couple of people on this forum actually have either.

 

[Steve42]

Well, price really isnt the issue either as my friend would pay what I told him he needed to.
But I want to keep him under $2500 on the sub, and $5K total for the 5.1 system (speakers only) if I can. Unless there is a compelling reason to spend more.

LOL> I just realized that I'm even a tightwad with other people money, not just my own. LOL

Anyway, I am having him look at the ACI maestro, as well as their in-cabinet bookshelves. Its just really hard to push for them though as I have never heard them, and only a couple of people on this forum actually have either.

df4801,

Glad you are still around, sorry if the thread got off track. Good to hear that $2500 is not the absolute limit, but again the DD-15 will not give your friend more output than the Maestro as explained above and it will cost around a $1000 more for a new one. Sound quality will be similar between the two as others have said about the comparison of the Maestro and DD-18 in other forums. That and the transferrable 5 year warranty is way better than the two year which is not transferable of the DD series.

As far as testing the ACI stuff out, ACI provides a 30 day trial. And if you don't like them your friend only has to pay return shipping. ACI will not charge him for the initial shipping charges. That's how confident they are.

Good luck to you and your friend and let us know how it all turns out!

Cheers,
Steve

 

[df4801]

Thanks for all the advice and info.
I'll post an update when a decision is made.

 

[Sheep]

check out the Athean sub. It's down firing format is amazing built for any room size big or small.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10062281&catid=

Your kidding right? That sub is designed for a 12 by 16 room tops. I have the older version and it will not be sufficient for this room.

SheepStar