Best mid range receiver for 4 ohm towers?

[Monitor Audioholic]

Hi Fellow Audioholics!

Newbie here, as you can see from my old skool set up, I'm in dire need of an overhaul. I had my mind made up and I was about to press the button on the Onkyo RZ50 (£1,200), for it's connectivity, DIRAC and support for Sonos. I don't need a lot of channels. However, I recently saw a review by our leader (Gene Dellasala, of course!) waxing lyrical about the Yammy RX-A6A (£1,600) and now I am in 2 minds, as I'm now concerned that Gene thinks the Onkyo may not be the best pairing to drive my (4 ohms) Monitor Audio fronts.
I'm only really interested in watching films in 5:1 and listening to music. Not going to do much tweaking tbh, as I have no idea what I'm doing.

I will eventually look to upgrade my set up to something like a 5:1:4. So, I guess my question is this, will the RZ50 suit my set up or do I need to consider the RX-A6A? Or, am I missing a trick and should I be looking at something completely different like a Denon X3800H (£1,100) to fit the bill? £1,600 is my upper limit. Price-wise, I know which one the missus will prefer!!!
I would really appreciate your expert opinions. But bear in mind I might not understand all the technical ins and outs, so explain like I'm 5!!

Thank you very much!!

5:1 Set up
Screen: Sony 55X90J
AVR. Denon AVR-1910
Fronts: MA Silver 8i (4 ohms floorstanders)
Centre: MA Silver LCR
Surrounds: MA RS1
Sub: REL Q100E
Medium room: Viewing position 3m

Monitor Audio Silver 8i Floorstanding Speakers user reviews : 2.9 out of 5 - 32 reviews - audioreview.com

Monitor Audio Silver 8i Floorstanding Speakers user reviews : 2.9 out of 5 - 32 reviews - audioreview.com

www.audioreview.com

 

[shadyJ]

The Onkyo will probably work fine, but Yamahas tend to be more robust and may handle the lower ohm speakers a bit better. I doubt that the Silver 8i is a super tough load. I wouldn't worry about impedance, especially since your AVR-1910 seemed to handle them just fine.

 

[dlaloum]

None of the midrange AVR's are particularly good with 4 ohm speakers... basically none of them are true high current designs.

You need to go up to the Onkyo RZ70, Integra 8.4, Pioneer LX805, Denon A1H to get true low impedance speaker handling.

(having said that, if it is a 4ohm speaker, with no substantive dips below 4 ohm, then all the midrange AVR's will be fine... my 4ohm speakers drop to 1.6ohm at one point and 3ohm at another... most midrange AVR's don't do well with them, and many power amps don't either!)

An alternative is to use a power amp for your front mains, and let the AVR handle the surrounds and heights (which is what I do)

I opted for the Integra DRX 3.4 - which maxes out at 7.1.2 or 5.1.4 - and pair it with a power amp that drives my main L/R.

Depending on where you are and what discounting is happening in your area, the Onkyo RZ50, Integra DRX 5.4, Pioneer LX505 (all the same, badge engineered, with minor feature differences) would work fine, with an external power amp possibly a good option for the mains, if driving 4ohm. The baby Integra DRX 3.4 is also an option as it has a full set of pre-outs, as long as you aren't planning more than 5.1.4.

Other alternatives include Denon X3800, or some of the Yamaha's

The Onkyo family of brands, include Dirac Live Room EQ, the Denon includes Audyssey (but has the option of a Dirac upgrade, at extra cost), the Yamaha's have YPAO.

Dirac is excellent, Audyssey, I have had variable results with in the past, YPAO I have not used, it gets variable reviews... in terms of hardware quality / reliability I would rank Yamaha the highest of the three, with Denon/Marantz/Pioneer/Integra/Onkyo all the same.

 

[Monitor Audioholic]

The Onkyo will probably work fine, but Yamahas tend to be more robust and may handle the lower ohm speakers a bit better. I doubt that the Silver 8i is a super tough load. I wouldn't worry about impedance, especially since your AVR-1910 seemed to handle them just fine.

Thanks Speaker!
Now, come to think of it, the old Denon did cut out from time to time back in the day and I simply presumed it was because the volume dial got turned up too much accidentally, as there seemed to be quite a lot variation between the required volume when flicking between different sources. I didn't know it at the time, but I now realise that it was clipping. I wasn't sure if it was an intermittent fault or what and didn't have the experience to investigate further. What you don't know can't hurt you right....

 

[Monitor Audioholic]

None of the midrange AVR's are particularly good with 4 ohm speakers... basically none of them are true high current designs.

You need to go up to the Onkyo RZ70, Integra 8.4, Pioneer LX805, Denon A1H to get true low impedance speaker handling.

(having said that, if it is a 4ohm speaker, with no substantive dips below 4 ohm, then all the midrange AVR's will be fine... my 4ohm speakers drop to 1.6ohm at one point and 3ohm at another... most midrange AVR's don't do well with them, and many power amps don't either!)

An alternative is to use a power amp for your front mains, and let the AVR handle the surrounds and heights (which is what I do)

I opted for the Integra DRX 3.4 - which maxes out at 7.1.2 or 5.1.4 - and pair it with a power amp that drives my main L/R.

Depending on where you are and what discounting is happening in your area, the Onkyo RZ50, Integra DRX 5.4, Pioneer LX505 (all the same, badge engineered, with minor feature differences) would work fine, with an external power amp possibly a good option for the mains, if driving 4ohm. The baby Integra DRX 3.4 is also an option as it has a full set of pre-outs, as long as you aren't planning more than 5.1.4.

Other alternatives include Denon X3800, or some of the Yamaha's

The Onkyo family of brands, include Dirac Live Room EQ, the Denon includes Audyssey (but has the option of a Dirac upgrade, at extra cost), the Yamaha's have YPAO.

Dirac is excellent, Audyssey, I have had variable results with in the past, YPAO I have not used, it gets variable reviews... in terms of hardware quality / reliability I would rank Yamaha the highest of the three, with Denon/Marantz/Pioneer/Integra/Onkyo all the same.

Cheers dllaloum!

Thank you for the steer and some really good suggestions. I've not considered the Integra or Pioneer before, but will do some digging on those as well.

Funnily enough, the 8is are currently in for a health check at the moment and I will now ask the engineer to check for any impedance drop when they are driven to assess how they behave when asked to go to the well.

 

[Monitor Audioholic]

Hmm, something seems off with this one I've just found...
What is this model that is coming in within my budget? What's the difference with the reference to "AVC" mean when compared to the AVR-X6800h, which comes in significantly higher priced? I thought Denon's 6000 series would come up at a much higher price than this (e.g the X6800H is currently £1,800)? Or, is that about right in comparision?

Denon AVC-X6700 (Black) | Dolby Atmos AV Amplifier | Richer Sounds

 

[PENG]

Thanks Speaker!
Now, come to think of it, the old Denon did cut out from time to time back in the day and I simply presumed it was because the volume dial got turned up too much accidentally, as there seemed to be quite a lot variation between the required volume when flicking between different sources. I didn't know it at the time, but I now realise that it was clipping. I wasn't sure if it was an intermittent fault or what and didn't have the experience to investigate further. What you don't know can't hurt you right....

That's useful info, if your Denon would "cut out..", then you likely would have the same issue with the RZ50, based on bench test results. So, the AVR-X3800H is probably the better choice for you. You do have to pay for the Dirac Live license, but you can always try Audyssey and buy the $20 editor app that may give you satisfactory results. You indicated you wouldn't like to tweak, but we can help you tweak a few basic things that shouldn't take you an hour to accomplish.

Dirac Live does seem to go on sale (something like up to 30% discount) every few months, so keep that in mind.
You can't go wrong with the Denon, they are relatively bug free, plug it in and it will just work.

Don't worry about the high current talks, I have installed a 5.1 system with Monitor audio Silver 8 that should be very similar to your 8i, but strangely enough I think the 8i is actually an older model than the 8 that I installed brand new in 20156. Anyway, the mid range Marantz SR7009 had no problem driving them to insane levels in a large room at >4 meters, so your 3 m distance is not a problem.

"High current" is a relative term so Denon's claim of their AVRs being high current could be arguably true technically speaking anyway. The important point is not to fixate on the high current buzz word, but consider how much current your speakers may need in your applications. That depends on you spl requirements and that is dependent heavily on your seating distance and the sensitivity of the speakers. Yours has sensitivity specs of 90 dB/w/m, that's reasonably high so that helps for sure.

If you are interested, you can estimate your speaker's need with an online calculator such as the following that has been linked about a million times on forums so it must easy to use.

Peak SPL Calculator (hometheaterengineering.com)

 

[Monitor Audioholic]

Thanks Peng.
I used your suggested value of 90 dB and got these results (on the basis of the 2 fronts).
No idea what they mean though!

 

[PENG]

Thanks Peng.
I used your suggested value of 90 dB and got these results (on the basis of the 2 fronts).
No idea what they mean though!
View attachment 66586

The following will help you understand what it means:

SPL Calculator: How Loud Will Your Amplifier and Speakers Go? | Home Cinema Guide (the-home-cinema-guide.com)

At your listening position, you won't get close to 105 dB, that is the so called reference level based on THX standard, until you set you volume to about 0 to +2. What's your volume setting you listen to now, with the 1910?

 

[lovinthehd]

Avc is the designation when the radio tuner isn't needed/used, like in europe...

 

[Monitor Audioholic]

Thanks Lovin'
So, that's a negligible loss right? I have never used the tuner in all the time I've owned my old Denon.

 

[Monitor Audioholic]

The following will help you understand what it means:

SPL Calculator: How Loud Will Your Amplifier and Speakers Go? | Home Cinema Guide (the-home-cinema-guide.com)

At your listening position, you won't get close to 105 dB, that is the so called reference level based on THX standard, until you set you volume to about 0 to +2. What's your volume setting you listen to now, with the 1910?

I actually have no idea what the volume is set to. You mean some kind of internal volume control right? I just see the manual volume setting on the panel and that seems to hover around the minus 35 mark.

 

[PENG]

I actually have no idea what the volume is set to. You mean some kind of internal volume control right? I just see the manual volume setting on the panel and that seems to hover around the minus 35 mark.

I just mean the master volume that is display on the front panel. -35 would be quite low and it shouldn't trigger the protective circuit. If you do have volume set at around -35 or even -25, then it means you don't listen to loud music/movies. In that case, the Onkyo RZ50 should be fine as well, though I do thing the X3800H is a safer bet for your 4 ohm speakers.

 

[Monitor Audioholic]

Quick aside. The engineer checking my fronts has offered a pre-owned Denon AVC-X8500H (good conidtion with original box, packaging and all accessories). This spec is no doubt way beyond what I need, but might be good to future proof my set up for a while? Are there any concerns anyone has with me taking a punt on the AVC-X8500H? Experience tells me that Denon's tend to age pretty well.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

109 dB reminds of the time I went to a concert with my wife. It was so extremely loud I had to use ear plugs.

Then I got out my iPhone's dB-meter app and measured the volume and it was about 107-109dB.

I could still hear the songs just fine even with both ear plugs tightly on.

 

[Monitor Audioholic]

Nice one ADTG! That is insane noise levels!! Loving the Spoilers!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Nice one ADTG! That is insane noise levels!! Loving the Spoilers!!

Did you notice all the 4-ohm power output measurements in my AVR Spoiler?

Some people talk trash about AVRs, but many AVRs measure 200-300W x 2Ch into 4 ohms.

 

[Monitor Audioholic]

Yeah, I did spot that, but wasn't exactly sure what they meant initially. On reflection, it looks some of those numbers will either blow your speakers or your eardrums. Most likely both!!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, I did spot that, but wasn't exactly sure what they meant initially. On reflection, it looks some of those numbers will either blow your speakers or your eardrums. Most likely both!!!

It could. But it mostly means that these $1500-$3000 AVR's can output a lot of watts into 4-ohms.

For example, the Yamaha RX-A3080 could output almost 300 Watts x 2Ch driven into 4 ohms. The Yamaha Z11 could output almost 400 Watts x 2Ch driven into 4 ohms!

Takeaway message is that many of these AVRs are extremely capable and have high quality amps in them. Yet, some people chose to use some lower-quality external amps, instead of just using the AVR's higher quality internal amps.

 

[Eppie]

Quick aside. The engineer checking my fronts has offered a pre-owned Denon AVC-X8500H (good conidtion with original box, packaging and all accessories). This spec is no doubt way beyond what I need, but might be good to future proof my set up for a while? Are there any concerns anyone has with me taking a punt on the AVC-X8500H? Experience tells me that Denon's tend to age pretty well.

With AVRs it is the video specs you need to be concerned with as outdated specs can lead to possible issues in the future. The X8500H has the latest HDCP 2.2 spec and I would assume the latest HDMI spec as well. Will you need 8k in the future or is 4k enough? If 4k will suffice, then the unit supports DTS-X and Dolby Vision, so it just lacks HDR10+ which may not be an issue for you. If the setup microphone is included (required to use Audyssey room correction) and the price is right then it could be a good option.