Best Amp under 1K for HT

[Alex2507]

I know you only run 3 kW 'on hand' for the right moment but not continuous, right?

The first time I met Walter he ran that system until it turned off by itself!
I think he might need more power.

I think I had established that I realized that getting a separate amp, was more of a want than a need.

You did establish that and I for one think you should get one. I gave this thread a quick read but didn't see anywhere that you had been steered to PENG's amp thread. That's a good source of information. If you stick to the used market you can easily get your money back should you choose a different route.

As has been mentioned some speakers perform better when driven by amps that are more competent with low impedance speakers. While a 140 rec'r can make your ears bleed it will drop the ball trying to reproduce frequencies that are in a low impedance region. A rec'r that sounds fine at 70db can quickly find itself out of gas at 80db with the right speakers. While that difference in perceived volume is substantial and quite noticeable it doesn't even begin to hint at the fact that the rec'r is being asked to put out about 16 times as many watts to go from one to the other and 80db ain't that loud ... to Walter it may be below the threshold of audibility.

 

[PENG]

The first time I met Walter he ran that system until it turned off by itself!
I think he might need more power.

If I were in that situation I would not want anyone to tell me not to take a hearing test. Oh, I assume he has at least one dedicated 30A circuit if not 60A. Seriously even I have 2 20A ones and I only have half the power he has.

 

[Alex2507]

If I were in that situation I would not want anyone to tell me not to take a hearing test. Oh, I assume he has at least one dedicated 30A circuit if not 60A. Seriously even I have 2 20A ones and I only have half the power he has.

Walter's hearing is by his own admission shot. The price for listening at those SPL's is not just monetary. My hearing isn't that great either so talking to him is nice because our speaking voices are already in the 'screaming like a raped ape' range.

His outlet feeding his system is just normal house wiring ... probably 15 amp. It is the bane of his existence but I can assure you it gets loud enough to keep him happy.

Doing a Google search on your newly acquired Anthem MCA20 I found this thread where your first hand observations of the benefits of an amp with a very specific speaker were spot on. Maybe that speaker's impedance curve had not been measured by a 3rd party and published back then but it has now. Had that piece of info been available then it would have saved a lot of ink. It's amazing how that impedance curve dictates the speaker's amplification requirements.

I'm on my own little amp high after hooking the Carver C-500 amp that Walter gave me. While I can't reliably say I heard this and I heard that I can with 100% certainty say that, I got little shivers hearing a very familiar piece of music.

I can't think of a way to DBT those shivers.
... maybe if I compare it to eating ice cream out on the Canadian tundra.

 

[Mike Ronesia]

As has been mentioned some speakers perform better when driven by amps that are more competent with low impedance speakers. While a 140 rec'r can make your ears bleed it will drop the ball trying to reproduce frequencies that are in a low impedance region. A rec'r that sounds fine at 70db can quickly find itself out of gas at 80db with the right speakers. While that difference in perceived volume is substantial and quite noticeable it doesn't even begin to hint at the fact that the rec'r is being asked to put out about 16 times as many watts to go from one to the other and 80db ain't that loud ... to Walter it may be below the threshold of audibility.

Not sure about how low the impedance was but I do know that my old speakers rated at 125wpc did not do well when pushed with my 110wpc Denon. When I added a 200WPC amp they sounded much better all the way up to and past "0" on the Denon dial. It was worth it to me and very noticeable. I am happy for now and have shifted my Upgraditus to another hobby.

 

[Mike Ronesia]

If you're like me as soon as you add an amp you'll relize you need better speakers. This is the path I took and I'm very glad I did as I am now very happy with my system.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you're like me as soon as you add an amp you'll relize you need better speakers. This is the path I took and I'm very glad I did as I am now very happy with my system.

Mike, how come you did not feel you needed better speakers BEFORE you got the new amp?

I mean what if getting new speakers in the first place (before amp) improved your sound significantly enough that adding an amp afterwards would not improve?

It's kind of like getting from A to D, right?

Do you go from A to B to C to D, or can you just go from A to D?

 

[k_lewis]

Arcam P1000 7x135w - under a grand on Audiogon or eBay.

 

[spike99]

Arcam P1000 7x135w - under a grand on Audiogon or eBay.

Thanks... but I decided to go with Emotiva XPA-5. Emotiva to me was the best bang for the buck... Should get it this week

At the same time I put in a order to get some Bass Trap panels on my walls. Bass trap panels to me are probably a better investment... Should get these in probably 3 weeks.

 

[Mike Ronesia]

Mike, how come you did not feel you needed better speakers BEFORE you got the new amp?

I mean what if getting new speakers in the first place (before amp) improved your sound significantly enough that adding an amp afterwards would not improve?

It's kind of like getting from A to D, right?

Do you go from A to B to C to D, or can you just go from A to D?

How can you know if your speakers are good enough if you don't have the proper power to drive them?

As they say, for the best sound improvement upgrade your speakers. For me I had to hear what the speakers could do and the Denon wasn't letting them live up to their full potential. After hearing the difference an amp could make, it was just a matter of wanting to upgrade. I really was content with the sound after the amp, at least I didn't have any more clipping/distortion at higher volumes.

Bottom line, the amp fixed a major problem and the speaker upgrade was just because I wanted to upgrade.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

I am running 3000 watts in my system , that's not counting (2) 1000 watt subs and (2) 400 watts subs, and you're gona tell me there is no difference. Can you hit 130 db with out clipping, I can. Can you pop sheet rock screws or peel the paint of your walls? I can if I fell like it. So power does not mean anything. I guess I wasted my money, I should have stayed with that Denon at 140 wattsX7, because I am an idiot and wasted my money.; I am actually starting to be convinced to throw my 250 watt Threshold out the window, which I love so dearly. I have a lot of respect for you, but did you ever listen to some real power? You know what else I get a real kick out of: people spend 10k on speakers and drive them with an AVR, what a joke.

Peel paint off your walls? Lord I hope that was a joke because if not then I can see why NOBODY could take you serious

 

[jeffsg4mac]

Thanks... but I decided to go with Emotiva XPA-5. Emotiva to me was the best bang for the buck... Should get it this week

At the same time I put in a order to get some Bass Trap panels on my walls. Bass trap panels to me are probably a better investment... Should get these in probably 3 weeks.

Good choice and yes it is. I am going to be there with you very soon now. Alex?

 

[walter duque]

Peel paint off your walls? Lord I hope that was a joke because if not then I can see why NOBODY could take you serious

I should have said flaked of the walls, not peel. I do pop sheetrock screws and craked the sheetrock tape in the corners.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

I should have said flaked of the walls, not peel. I do pop sheetrock screws and craked the sheetrock tape in the corners.

Do you also wish to be able to hear when you are older? Your starting to sound like one of those punks with 15" subwoofers in a vw bug. I mean it's not about how loud a system can go it's about how accurate the system can be.

I am not calling you a punk by the way rather just pointing out what I think of those guys when I hear them in traffic. Heard one just today actually.

 

[walter duque]

Do you also wish to be able to hear when you are older? Your starting to sound like one of those punks with 15" subwoofers in a vw bug. I mean it's not about how loud a system can go it's about how accurate the system can be.

I am not calling you a punk by the way rather just pointing out what I think of those guys when I hear them in traffic. Heard one just today actually.

I'll be 59 in june, crazy or what? In the early 80's I used to run zapco amps in my cars.

 

[jeffsg4mac]

I'll be 59 in june, crazy or what? In the early 80's I used to run zapco amps in my cars.

Have you had your hearing checked recently

I had an HK amp with a Nakamichi deck, 8in madisound sub, with Vifa 6's and Morel tweeters. It sounded very good.

 

[PENG]

and the Denon wasn't letting them live up to their full potential. After hearing the difference an amp could make, it was just a matter of wanting to upgrade. I really was content with the sound after the amp, at least I didn't have any more clipping/distortion at higher volumes.

Bottom line, the amp fixed a major problem and the speaker upgrade was just because I wanted to upgrade.

I don't know which Denon model you have but I am sure my 4308 or even the 3805 can drive those 8 ohms 91 dB/1m/2.83V -6 dB at 80 Hz PT800 to ears bleeding level with no trouble at all in my 12X20X8 room. May be you have a much larger room and/or a power hungry geomety/shape. The XPA-5 doesn't have much more power than a some of the Denon AVR in 2 channel scenario based on its transformer and cap size. Sure they are heavy but there many ways to get heavy. Double the power get you 3 dB more SPL, the Denon models I mentioned had no trouble driving my 87 dB/1m/2.83V, 4 ohm minimum tower speakers. Again, I do think your acoustic environment may be the reason why you need more power (still, may be just 3 dB more if you have something like a 3808 and above) but that does not mean other people have the same issue.

 

[Mike Ronesia]

I don't know which Denon model you have but I am sure my 4308 or even the 3805 can drive those 8 ohms 91 dB/1m/2.83V -6 dB at 80 Hz PT800 to ears bleeding level with no trouble at all in my 12X20X8 room. May be you have a much larger room and/or a power hungry geomety/shape. The XPA-5 doesn't have much more power than a some of the Denon AVR in 2 channel scenario based on its transformer and cap size. Sure they are heavy but there many ways to get heavy. Double the power get you 3 dB more SPL, the Denon models I mentioned had no trouble driving my 87 dB/1m/2.83V, 4 ohm minimum tower speakers. Again, I do think your acoustic environment may be the reason why you need more power (still, may be just 3 dB more if you have something like a 3808 and above) but that does not mean other people have the same issue.

The Denon was/is a 2808 110wpc and I never tried it with the PT800's. I don't know a lot about how room size affects clipping but I do know that when the Denon reached about -20 it started to sound bad and by -15 it was very bad and with the XPA-5 I could go past 0 with no noticeable distortion. Maybe it was not the Denons fault but the problem went away with the XPA-5 in the mix. I don't know real world wpc numbers as far as 2 channel or 5 channel goes between the two but I've heard Denon tends to exaggerate theirs and Emotiva tends to go the other direction and under rate theirs. In any case it's not about the numbers, it's about the Denon only sounded good to about -20 and that was not acceptable to me as I like to listen at reference (0) for movies and sometimes for music as well.

All I know for sure is I would never use another AVR without an amp for anything that I deemed critical listening. The denon works fine out in the shop at low volumes and seems to have been made for that type of easy listening environment. I won't buy one again as even the mid volume SQ with or without the amp is lacking compared to my UMC-1 but it was also cheaper so that is to be expected. It does have nice features and runs very solid so no complaints there but the setup is insanely difficult, for me at least compared to other units.

 

[k_lewis]

Thanks... but I decided to go with Emotiva XPA-5. Emotiva to me was the best bang for the buck... Should get it this week

At the same time I put in a order to get some Bass Trap panels on my walls. Bass trap panels to me are probably a better investment... Should get these in probably 3 weeks.

Good choice, can't go wrong there either - Good luck with the system upgrade and hope it turns out as expected.

 

[k_lewis]

I'll be 59 in june, crazy or what? In the early 80's I used to run zapco amps in my cars.

Zapco! Now that is a blast from the past.. In the 80's it was young punks like me at the local car stereo store installing that stuff in your MR2, 635csi, Testarrossa, Countach, Mustang, etc. along with Dynaudio separates and of course an Alpine tape deck / CD changer combo .

 

[spike99]

Good choice, can't go wrong there either - Good luck with the system upgrade and hope it turns out as expected.

Thanks... I'll try to give an update after I setup amp and then after I get my living room treated.