Best Amp under 1K for HT

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
WALTER --
Exactly the truth... I have a Denon AVR-3311CI, and it Protected itself driving 5 channels in Mult Ch Stereo mode at +12db on Vol knob (-80 to +18db). So after much discussion ended up with the EMOtiva XPA-5 that will drive ALL FIVE CHANNELS with no detectable distortion out of the ballpark. At -10db in STEREO Mode it is screaming in SPL, but that is with Klipsch 8Ω loads at 98db sensitivity!

The fact is that most of these AVR's have very weak so-called Amps built-into them and that is why they only weigh around 27# vs. the EMO XPA-5 weighing in at 66 Pounds.

Very Happy w/ my Denon AVR as the frontend pre/pro, and letting the EMO do all the heavy lifting. Plenty of headroom now for Music in Stereo Mode, or Movies in DSP Modes, with IMPACT !!
I have never experienced my Denon amps going into protection mode.

But you have a great REAL-LIFE example of how to properly use external amps right there.:D
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
My nickels worth- You are on a path that is perfectly normal to upgrading your sound. Adding an amplifier is an excellent first start and you should not feel like it was a bad decision. It was money well spent. It will increase your relative volume output resulting in lower gain settings on the processor, because the amplifier is probably more sensitive to the input it is receiving and more than likely is a lot more efficient. It will not dramatically enhance your sound or provide greater clarity / sonic characteristics. Overall the amp is going to take exactly what you feed it and spit it back out. A good amp will do this without introducing additional qualities, although there is a discernible sonic difference between tube based amps and digital / solid state amps- Which is why pure 2ch audiophiles go for tube amps and home theater dictates the use of digital / solid state amps.

In order to achieve marked improvements in your sound, other measures are necessary such as moving to a better quality of transport, processor, and speakers. For a rough example, you could have a $900 preamp/processor with built in amplifier, $900 speakers and mid-line cables / interconnects, and then add a $10k Theta amplifier. The system will sound pretty much the same with the Theta, but of course there will be more power on tap. The Theta is sitting there waiting for a comparable quality preamp on one and and speakers on the other end in order to really shine- But at that point all it is really doing is transparently reproducing the high quality input out to the high quality speakers.

I'd probably suggest a higher end processor as your next upgrade as it will give you the most readily apparent sonic improvements. Transport next. Speakers next after that, if warranted.

My upgrade path from an all in one receiver amp was as follows:
1. moved to a separate amp (minor difference noted here)
2. moved to better cables / interconnects (no difference noted here)
3. moved to better / dedicated processor (Big difference noted here- on everything)
3a. tried different processor, better on surround but horrid on 2ch
3b. tried different processor, better on features and sound in all respects, traded in 1st processor and kept this one.
4. moved to better quality amplifier (no difference noted here)
5. moved to better quality DVD and CD transports (minor sound difference, major picture quality difference)
6. moved to better speakers (martin logan / energy / REL combo) - Big difference noted here in sound, spaciousness, bass, etc.
7. moved to better preamp / processor - minor difference noted here, better channel separation and effects for movies, slightly cleaner 2ch music, better / newer features, allows me to convert all interconnects to XLR. No real changes in terms of sound spaciousness.
8. moved to synergistic reference speaker cables and XLR interconnects with active shielding, and added a TrippLite AVR for entire system. - (slight audible difference in 'blackness' of sound, cleaner picture for TV and DVDs)
9. moved to Genesis 6.1 speakers - huge difference, gains from all above changes now realized. Extremely spacious sound, the ultimate.

High end speakers were the last step of my upgrade evolution path- I was quite pleased with my Martin Logan fronts / centers, Energy surrounds and REL Storm subs, but was a bit puzzled why adding vastly better components did not make much difference in overall sound quality. Once I swapped in the Genesis 6.1 speaker system the difference was night / day astounding- With the same exact gear. At that point, my previous speakers were the limiting factor and while my pre/pro, amps, interconnects etc were extremely high quality, I was not able to realize those gains until I added some speakers that could play back the sonic improvements. When I was starting out and just got to the point of adding a separate amp, upgrading the processor after that gave me the next big leap in sonic improvement. The whole point of this is that once you upgrade a component to a higher quality, you often don't get the full benefit of it until all other pieces of the chain are at the same quality level or higher.

On your other item:
For surround speaker placement, higher and 8 or more feet away is typically better. surrounds are there to provide ambient effects with some localization, so having them at a distance to maximize that effect would be better. If possible, do a wall mount with them about 3/4 up to top of wall or all the way at top of wall, angled slightly down towards your listening position. Surround sides should be positioned to the direct side of, or just slightly forward of the primary seating. Sometimes slightly behind the seating works as well, it depends on the room and what type of speakers you have (monopole, dipole, line array, etc), and if you have rear surround speakers or not. Typically setting the surrounds on a stand at couch height is not the best setup.
KLewis -- nice writeup. But for the Surrounds you do not want them just slightly forward of the primary seating postions, actually 90-110 Degrees per Dolby Labs, which puts them exactly at your sides or behind just a little.

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/setup/speaker-setup-guide/index.html
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
I have never experienced my Denon amps going into protection mode.

But you have a great REAL-LIFE example of how to properly use external amps right there.:D
I can understand with those model number Denon's that you have.:D But remember the little guy I have is rated at 125W per Channel, and per testing it does around 85-90W per Channel but with only two channels driven, not five.

Did the Amazon price go up on the 3310CI? Looks like it did. I am still debating what to do for the Mstr. Bdrm. plan for HT like 95% time...
For a 5.1(.2) system, I am thinking about the lower costs Denon AVR's then adding another Amp if required for Movies -- BD. Starting with a RACK (Sanus), then AVR, with my Sony BD player... then play with it, and only if required, add a five channel amp later... how does that sound?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I can understand with those model number Denon's that you have.:D But remember the little guy I have is rated at 125W per Channel, and per testing it does around 85-90W per Channel but with only two channels driven, not five.

Did the Amazon price go up on the 3310CI? Looks like it did. I am still debating what to do for the Mstr. Bdrm. plan for HT like 95% time...
For a 5.1(.2) system, I am thinking about the lower costs Denon AVR's then adding another Amp if required for Movies -- BD. Starting with a RACK (Sanus), then AVR, with my Sony BD player... then play with it, and only if required, add a five channel amp later... how does that sound?
Looks like the price went up on that 3310.

Sounds like a good plan to me. Gotta have that amp pre-out just in case.:D

I'm so used to Denons, I don't think I could use any other brand.:eek:
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm so used to Denons, I don't think I could use any other brand.:eek:
Somehow I thought you were PO with Denon and had given up on them. Am I mistaken or you have now forgiven them, if so when and why?.:D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Somehow I thought you were PO with Denon and had given up on them. Am I mistaken or you have now forgiven them, if so when and why?.:D
I was PO. But I think it was the fault of eCost.

And perhaps 2010 was just a BAD, BAD, BAD LUCK year for me.:eek:
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
I LOVE DENON's

I just LOVE my Denon -- PERIOD.

That coming NEW AVR-3312CI Sure LOOKS Nice !!! I am still on the fence here, unless someone (AcuDefTechGuy or Peng or ??) can convince me to Pull the Trigger and Spend my monies... :eek:
 
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