T

TechToys2

Junior Audioholic
I'm having a little trouble getting my Marantz 6014 consistently sounding the way I would like. It may just be the source material as some things sound great, but other things not so much. I was wondering what benefit REW might have over just using the Audyssey app and if there is a good explanation somewhere that anyone is aware of on how to use these tools (bith the audyssey app and REW) to best effect. I have looked and see a ton of things online, but some of the information is either not particularly helpful or suspect and I would prefer to get a recommendation about something that I can feel confident is actually accurate and reliable.
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic Chief
Audyssey needs to be setup for the receiver to be configured correctly - at least with the 2020 models. Did you go thru an Audyssey setup session?

If so and you are still having issues is it with the same input ie.. CD, Blu-ray, etc.. Each input can store different settings so you might want to become familiar with the Audio and Speaker setup tabs and make sure the inputs are configured the same?

REW measures Frequency response. It's not an EQ system like Audyssey. Audyssey and REW are two different tools. I hope that helps.
 
T

TechToys2

Junior Audioholic
Audyssey needs to be setup for the receiver to be configured correctly - at least with the 2020 models. Did you go thru an Audyssey setup session?

If so and you are still having issues is it with the same input ie.. CD, Blu-ray, etc.. Each input can store different settings so you might want to become familiar with the Audio and Speaker setup tabs and make sure the inputs are configured the same?

REW measures Frequency response. It's not an EQ system like Audyssey. Audyssey and REW are two different tools. I hope that helps.
Thank you. Yes, I ran Audyssey a couple of times - once before I purchased the app (using the receiver only) and then using the app. I tend to listen to a lot of jazz and some recordings sound very harsh/bright. Also, some dialog on movies/TV sounds fairly bright/shrill. I realize that different sources are going to sound differently, but I didn't have the same issue with my prior receiver - or, in fairness, maybe I just wasn't being as critical after having gotten used to it. It doesn't seem to be input related as much as it is dependent on the particular material I am watching/listening to, so I was thinking maybe there would be a way to just reduce the upper frequencies slightly. However, I don't want to go messing around with stuff and make it worse.

Doesn't Audyssey also measure frequency response in addition to its room EQ function? Perhaps I don't understand the before and after graphs shown on the app.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Unless you have external amps you can only measure with REW with your avr, you can't apply any eq to the avr directly via REW. The Audyssey Editor app can give you some flexibility, and even more control with something called ratbuddyssey (think that's how its spelled) somebody developed on the side.....and then you can use REW to see actual results and fine tune.

I'd concentrate on the material that sounds good.....what is it and why? Does the stuff sound bad simply because it is?
 
L

Leemix

Audioholic Chief
Try and turn off audyssey and see if you prefer that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic Chief
Thank you. Yes, I ran Audyssey a couple of times - once before I purchased the app (using the receiver only) and then using the app. I tend to listen to a lot of jazz and some recordings sound very harsh/bright. Also, some dialog on movies/TV sounds fairly bright/shrill. I realize that different sources are going to sound differently, but I didn't have the same issue with my prior receiver - or, in fairness, maybe I just wasn't being as critical after having gotten used to it. It doesn't seem to be input related as much as it is dependent on the particular material I am watching/listening to, so I was thinking maybe there would be a way to just reduce the upper frequencies slightly. However, I don't want to go messing around with stuff and make it worse.

Doesn't Audyssey also measure frequency response in addition to its room EQ function? Perhaps I don't understand the before and after graphs shown on the app.
1. The first thing I would do is go into Audio:Audyssey and verify Dynamic EQ is on.

2. The next thing I would do is try the various settings for MultEQ. Reference rolls off the high frequencies while Off turns off Audyssey.

3. If none of this helps look at the Audyessy settings file you saved with the app. Open it and turn off midrange compensation for each speaker. Then load the settings file back to the receiver.

4. You could adjust the EQ with the Audyssey app but the Reference level rolls off the highs automatically so its doubtful that would be needed.

My guess is one of these settings will land you in a sweet spot to your ears. Turning on Dynamic EQ can make a difference by itself. I would leave Dynamic Volume off.

The app will show before and after graphs but they tend to be less accurate than if you analyzed the output with REW. My guess is one of the items in 1-3 above will make the adjustment you desire.

11.png


audy.png
 
T

TechToys2

Junior Audioholic
I'd concentrate on the material that sounds good.....what is it and why? Does the stuff sound bad simply because it is?
It's possible. With respect to music, the things that tend to sound good are well recorded or remastered recordings with an emphasis on midrange, like female vocals -- something like Diana Krall. Some instrumental recordings with brass and saxophones, depending on the recording (and some are older sessions but have been very well remastered) aside from being a little harsh can sound a bit synthetic to my ears. As far as TV/movies, I typically stream and find that Apple TV + shows and movies tend to sound better than a lot of the shows on Amazon Prime or Netflix, but it does vary.

Some of my issues with respect to movie/TV content has to do with dialog (which I mentioned in a previous thread). Last night I was watching a show on Amazon and had to crank it up to understand the dialog. Half the time I still couldn't make it out and other times it was so loud and fatiguing that it hurt my ears. I wound up turning on dynamic volume to light, turning the volume down and turning on subtitles so I didn't miss anything. It didn't help that the characters were talking fast, sometimes mumbling and speaking with an accent :) But still...
 
T

TechToys2

Junior Audioholic
1. The first thing I would do is go into Audio:Audyssey and verify Dynamic EQ is on.

2. The next thing I would do is try the various settings for MultEQ. Reference rolls off the high frequencies while Off turns off Audyssey.

3. If none of this helps look at the Audyessy settings file you saved with the app. Open it and turn off midrange compensation for each speaker. Then load the settings file back to the receiver.

4. You could adjust the EQ with the Audyssey app but the Reference level rolls off the highs automatically so its doubtful that would be needed.

My guess is one of these settings will land you in a sweet spot to your ears. Turning on Dynamic EQ can make a difference by itself. I would leave Dynamic Volume off.

The app will show before and after graphs but they tend to be less accurate than if you analyzed the output with REW. My guess is one of the items in 1-3 above will make the adjustment you desire.

View attachment 41915

View attachment 41916
Thanks again. I have been playing around with these settings. I guess I was hoping to avoid having to change things all the time if possible. So far, Dynamic eq with a reference offset of 10 db (as you seem to have it) is the closest I have found, although it can sometimes pump up the bass a bit too much for my liking. And as lovinthe hd suggested, it just may be that some of the content just isn't that good.
 
T

TechToys2

Junior Audioholic
What speakers are you running?
The fronts are older B&W bookshelf CDM 1NTs on stands and the center is a B&W CC6S2. Everything is set to 80 hz with bass management set to LFE @ 120 hz and I am using a REL Strata III subwoofer (connected using the low level input only).
 
T

TechToys2

Junior Audioholic
Here's an interesting thread I found about the speakers. FWIW, it seems others have said that they sound great but tend to be unforgiving if the source material isn't good.

 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
The fronts are older B&W bookshelf CDM 1NTs on stands and the center is a B&W CC6S2. Everything is set to 80 hz with bass management set to LFE @ 120 hz and I am using a REL Strata III subwoofer (connected using the low level input only).
Trying to figure out your statement about "fatiguing" and "little harsh can sound a bit synthetic"
 
T

TechToys2

Junior Audioholic
Trying to figure out your statement about "fatiguing" and "little harsh can sound a bit synthetic"
Perhaps a little hard to put into words, but what I am trying to say is that with certain material I find it difficult to listen for longer periods of time because my ears actually start to feel tired -- sounds strange, but I assure you it's a real thing. And by synthetic, I mean that the instruments don't sound natural ... a trumpet or saxophone sounds a little like a synthesizer reproduced the sound rather than like some is playing the horn. Again, this is not true of all content.
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic Chief
Perhaps a little hard to put into words, but what I am trying to say is that with certain material I find it difficult to listen for longer periods of time because my ears actually start to feel tired -- sounds strange, but I assure you it's a real thing. And by synthetic, I mean that the instruments don't sound natural ... a trumpet or saxophone sounds a little like a synthesizer reproduced the sound rather than like some is playing the horn. Again, this is not true of all content.
If you can, name a song and the performer that sounds good and one that sounds poor?
 
T

TechToys2

Junior Audioholic
If you can, name a song and the performer that sounds good and one that sounds poor?
I can, but I think it's a moot point now. After playing around with the system now for a while I think I have at least the music part under control and figured out what the issue was- and surprise- it was user error.

I have most of my music ripped to my computer in both lossless FLAC for streaming to the receiver with a Sonos (or HEOS if I set it up) and in mp3 for smaller files (some older rips are pretty low quality) to use on my iPhone usually to play to a small bluetooth speaker when I'm doing other things. The files got mixed together and I was unknowingly playing some of the mp3 files through the receiver.

There is a fairly significant difference in the sound quality when played through decent speakers and it seems even more noticeable to me on some older jazz recordings. When I figured this out and played the FLAC file instead of the much compressed mp3 it sounded much better. Between that and turning on Dynamic EQ, which I must have accidentally turned off while playing around, all is well. :). I’m sitting here listening to a CD/FLAC file of the trumpet player Blue Mitchell that sounded pretty bad with my mp3 rip and it sounds great in lossless with Dynamic EQ on and a 10 db offset.

Now if I can get the dialog stuff worked out on the TV/movie material, I'll be in good shape.

Thanks to everyone for trying to help.
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic Chief
Now if I can get the dialog stuff worked out on the TV/movie material, I'll be in good shape.

Thanks to everyone for trying to help.
I have not used the B&W bookshelf CDM 1NT.have you tried to turn up the center speaker under the Audio tab when dialog is too low?
 
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T

TechToys2

Junior Audioholic
I have not used the B&W bookshelf CDM 1NT.have you tried to turn up the center speaker under the Audio tab when dialog is too low?
Yes, I am experimenting, adding 1 db at a time and switching Dynamic Volume on and off. My ears may not be quite what they were years ago, but I have to believe the problem is primarily that some content is just not mixed very well.
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic Chief
That's certainly possible. Before I got my new Sierra Towers with RAAL 70-20 tweeters set up as Fronts, I use to increase the center channel by 3db for movies. But now with the Sierra Tower Fronts and the Monolith THX-365C as a center I no longer need to. I simply turn the Denon 4700 volume to 58 for movies and the dialog is always crisp and clear with no center boost needed. I love it.

By the way, the THX-365C is on sale today for Black Friday. It's an amazingly clear and smooth sounding speaker for dialog and its only $330. It's a great value and sounds awesome.


 

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