Beginner System

[afterlife2]

Also, what is the difference between the two Onkyos? Are they able to handle more than one sub? I'm determined to know my stuff eventually! I want to make the most informed purchases I can.

You can go wrong with either one. They both can handle 2 subs. They pretty much have same features and power. I only posted it so you can save some money. As with any receiver make sure you give it space for airflow. At least 6" to 9" of space. As far as the cartridge. I think the one that comes with the turntable will be good until you upgrade. I would highly recommend: Ortofon 2M Red Phono Cartridge
or
Amazon.com: Audio Technica AT120E/T Standard Mount Phono Cartridge: Electronics

 

[ahblaza]

The cartridge is always upgradable on the Utable, I think to get better performance you will have to spend considerably more money and then there's the fact that you need a phono preamp to use the table, the Uturn and phono stage built into the Onkyos should be adequate for your needs at this time. A stereo receiver or multi-channel receiever has all the components of separates on the same chassis or enclosure. For example the 709 has a tuner, phono stage (for your table) preamp and amplifiers to drive up to 2(stereo) 7 (multi-channel) speakers plus sub(s) and bass management for the speakers and subwoofer(s). My suggestion is to get the multi-channel receiver and Utable. I wouldn't worry about ruining your LPs with this table setup. What kind of shape are your albums in to begin with? I'm just trying to suggest the best of both worlds, stereo and HT listening and with the reco outlined you would be hard pressed to find better for the asking price. You could go a completely different route if you so desire and spend a lot more money. To better the U table I think you need to spend at least twice if not more $, separate preamp (phono) for the table, separate preamp to drive separate amp(s) and then speakers and sub. That's what I'm trying to convey by all the components that you would need separately or all in one box so to speak with a multi-channel receiver. You could use the MC receiver for stereo listening but you can't use a stereo receiver for multi-channel (HT) listening. I hope this explains things a little better for you. You can always upgrade the cartridge and phono preamp if you think you need to do so. Everything I outlined has a thirty day guarantee, if you're not satisfied, return them. You need to first establish a budget and intentions of use for your system. From what I gather your're limited with space, that needs to be addressed, you may be limited to 2.1 but if possible I highly reco starting that way and with the products I suggested you will have the ability to proceed to expand your setup to a full blown Home Theater setup.. Good Luck.
Cheers Jeff

 

[RUNN1NG EMOT10N]

Okay, thanks guys. This has all been very helpful. I'll probably go with the Uturn and one of the onkyos for now and I think I'm going to borrow a pair of pioneer speakers from my dad until I can add some quality speakers of my own. I'll be sure to keep in touch to let you know how everything goes! Once again, thanks for all the help!

 

[ahblaza]

Okay, thanks guys. This has all been very helpful. I'll probably go with the Uturn and one of the onkyos for now and I think I'm going to borrow a pair of pioneer speakers from my dad until I can add some quality speakers of my own. I'll be sure to keep in touch to let you know how everything goes! Once again, thanks for all the help!

That's a start, most important step.........

 

[GranteedEV]

I'm hoping over the next year to acquire the components to a decent audiophile system. I think for a turntable I've chosen a Pro-ject Debut Carbon. What would I need (or want) in the way of preamp, stereo, speakers to complete a nice little living room sound system. This doesn't need to be something that can play my T.V. audio or CDs or anything. I just want a system dedicated to quality vinyl sound.

Just curious, why vinyl? The noise floor is so high that the better the system, the worse the overall sound. For me, "hi-fi" means downward dynamic range, which vinyl tends to lack.

 

[afterlife2]

Just curious, why vinyl? The noise floor is so high that the better the system, the worse the overall sound. For me, "hi-fi" means downward dynamic range, which vinyl tends to lack.

GranteedEV I think the OP wants it for sentimental reasons, which is why I have mine + he can add a CD player or line-in MP3 player to the Onkyo anytime.

 

[GranteedEV]

GranteedEV I think the OP wants it for sentimental reasons

Well that's fine, but a "sentimental value system" doesn't sound like a "beginner" system to me. that's all.

 

[RUNN1NG EMOT10N]

It's not really sentimental (I'm only 19), but there are a couple factors. 1. I've been doing a lot of reading that vinyl can have a lot better audio quality than CD/mp3. That was the main reason I was gonna take the plunge. I listen to quite a few hours of music a day, so I'd like it to be quality. 2. Vinyls are just kinda cool!

 

[Pyrrho]

It's not really sentimental (I'm only 19), but there are a couple factors. 1. I've been doing a lot of reading that vinyl can have a lot better audio quality than CD/mp3. That was the main reason I was gonna take the plunge. I listen to quite a few hours of music a day, so I'd like it to be quality. 2. Vinyls are just kinda cool!

It isn't better than CD; it is worse. See:

Vinyl vs. CD - A Running Commentary - Parts 1 - 5 - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

Vinyl vs. CD - A Running Commentary - Parts 6 - 9 - Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity

 

[GranteedEV]

I've been doing a lot of reading that vinyl can have a lot better audio quality than CD/mp3.

This is the myth that I suspected. There is no reason for Vinyl to have superior audio quality to CD, except for mastering differences (some CDs have been mastered with lots of dynamic range compression, while their vinyl counterparts just weren't - BUT - this is pretty much entirely an "industry" fault - as on paper a CD is superior in pretty much every way)

That was the main reason I was gonna take the plunge. I listen to quite a few hours of music a day, so I'd like it to be quality.

Do a bit more evaluating before taking any plunge. That's all I will say.

2. Vinyls are just kinda cool!

My advice is to buy a vinyl setup as an aspect to your system, but not necessarily the primary aspect of the system. Speakers, speakers, speakers are the core of a good setup - and should be the focus of your budget as well as the character defining component. While the best speakers can reveal unwanted truths of vinyl, that shouldn't be a reason to compromise on the speakers. I just hope you don't get "speakers suited to vinyl" because that's counterproductive. I know myself, and at least one other member here, have only hear "tape hiss" from even quality vinyl we've heard. Yes, low bitrate MP3s sound horrible and vinyl can still be pretty good overall. But you're only as good as your weakest link, and "pretty good" isn't as good as it gets.

So based on that logic, If you're spending $400 on a turntable, for example, I would probably be guiding you towards speakers such as

Philharmonic 3s
Vapor Arcus
Soundfield VSFT1
Revel F208
KEF R900
Audiokinesis Planetarium Alpha
Pi Speakers Three π
JTR Noesis 212HT-LP
Seaton Catalyst 8C

and if that seems like too much, then perhaps you need to start with a budget for speakers, without regard for any other component, and work from there.

 

[RUNN1NG EMOT10N]

GranteedEV,

I'm glad you said that. That gives me a little more to think about. However, since I've got over 100 inherited records, it would be nice to have a decent setup to play them on. I though the U Turn Orbit Plus would be nice (recommended by ahblaza I believe). The Onkyos that ahblaza and afterlife2 suggested look like they would support the turntable with the phono input and be good for plenty of other stuff: cd, mp3, tv, etc... As far as speakers go, I know that is where I want to put a lot of the money, but so that I can listen to the records or cds or whatever for now, I figured I'd use the bookshelf Pioneers that I have and then upgrade/expand when I can. Would that be a decent plan? From what people have been telling me, this would give me a versatile setup.

 

[GranteedEV]

since I've got over 100 inherited records, it would be nice to have a decent setup to play them on. I though the U Turn Orbit Plus would be nice (recommended by ahblaza I believe). The Onkyos that ahblaza and afterlife2 suggested look like they would support the turntable with the phono input and be good for plenty of other stuff: cd, mp3, tv, etc...

Fair enough, although Onkyo wouldn't be my personal choice.

As far as speakers go, I know that is where I want to put a lot of the money, but

No buts!!!

so that I can listen to the records or cds or whatever for now, I figured I'd use the bookshelf Pioneers that I have and then upgrade/expand when I can. Would that be a decent plan?

The bookshelf pioneers are not bad, but just consider that they're $100/pr speakers - they're worth around ~15% of what your electronics would amount to - yet they will account for a solid ~90% of what you will hear. The eventual upgrade will be inevitable so it's really just a matter of how long you will be living with them. The issue with bookshelf speakers - especially the budget sort - is really power compression. They do it, and we hear it. It's not just thermal compression but also motor related issues which we hear as midwoofers are asked to do too much.

Larger speakers aren't immune to this, but generally do have more radiating surface area and heatsinking voice coil area - which is a benefit even if there are subwoofers involved.

For what it's worth, I recommend starting off with something like this:

Denham MTM kit (Single) - Complete Kits - Speaker Kits DIY Sound Group
which uses this cabinet:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=302-751

A bit of assembly required, but it should be a good value.

 

[ahblaza]

No matter what you decide you will need a phono stage (preamp) and the Onkyos reco'd do have good stages in them, it's difficult to find a decent reveiver with a good phono preamp built in, the preamp is usually an after thought in most receivers. You could with a receiver without a phono preamp and get a separate outboard preamp for the table. Something like this
Cambridge Audio Azur 551P Phono Preamp

If you're looking for excellent monitors (bookshelves) I highly reco these, I have them and they play well beyond their price and size.

Arx A1b monitor loudspeaker B-stock
Here is an excellent long term evaluation of them.
Affordable$$Audio
I can attest to the reliability of the Onkyos.
Cheers Jeff

 

[shadyJ]

For what it's worth, I recommend starting off with something like this:

Denham MTM kit (Single) - Complete Kits - Speaker Kits DIY Sound Group
which uses this cabinet:
Dayton Audio MTMC-1.0BK 1.0 ft³ MTM Curved Cabinet Gloss Bla 302-751

A bit of assembly required, but it should be a good value.

Here is another good looking kit that is much easier to assemble and has a bunch of great measurements to back it up. It is more expensive, but it looks like a great value.

 

[ahblaza]

Here is another good looking kit that is much easier to assemble and has a bunch of great measurements to back it up. It is more expensive, but it looks like a great value.

That's a nice looking easy to assemble kit, that price $291 is for the pair as well, they are usually sold as singles for that price, good find J might have to pick up a pair just to say I built these
Cheers Jeff

 

[shadyJ]

Yeah, I wish I had known about this stuff when I was buying speakers, I would have gone a DIY or kit route for sure. Check out the FR on that madisound kit:

 

[ahblaza]

Yeah, I wish I had known about this stuff when I was buying speakers, I would have gone a DIY or kit route for sure. Check out the FR on that madisound kit:
View attachment 12311

I hear you my man, very nice indeed, I may go this route in the near future

 

[fuzz092888]

Zaph makes great stuff no doubt about it. For a computer monitor or stereo system I like the kit you linked, for a HT speaker I think the DIY sound group kit is tough to beat, although it is more work and would make a tough first project.

Yeah, I wish I had known about this stuff when I was buying speakers, I would have gone a DIY or kit route for sure. Check out the FR on that madisound kit:
View attachment 12311

 

[shadyJ]

Zaph makes great stuff no doubt about it. For a computer monitor or stereo system I like the kit you linked, for a HT speaker I think the DIY sound group kit is tough to beat, although it is more work and would make a tough first project.

I agree. I am looking into doing either a SEOS kit or Pi kit myself.

 

[afterlife2]

I always wanted to build speakers like fuzz, looks like a good start. Thanks for sharing ShadyJ. Maybe one day...